You need a torch that produces more heat, especially to solder copper. With copper you should preheat the piece, then get in to the joint, get it done and then get out. Remember that you are trying to get the piece up to a temperature that will transfer enough heat to the solder to make it flow. Just getting the solder up to flow temperature isn’t enough. You will quickly overwhelm your flux with O2 and then scale will appear preventing your solder from flowing. Borax cones and water are a good general purpose flux, but I have learned to use Handy flux for silver or, in a pinch, Batterns. Pickle in what you have, but pH down is a good fast option. A good general purpose torch is a Meco, Hoke or Little Torch on propane and O2. Your best economical bet is O2 from a O2 concentrator. After that, an acetylene plumbers torch will work, but they produce a large, hard to control dirty flame. That being said, I and many of us, used one for years. In the end, as long as the torch produces enough heat, you can make it work. There are many discussions on Ganoksin about torches and O2 concentrators to read. Good luck…Rob
Hi Angela,
Welcome!
Depending upon the size of your piece, the small butane torch may not get the copper hot enough for the solder to flow. As kreder9277 mentioned, it’s important to heat the metal not the solder. Once the metal reaches the right temp the solder will flow.
You may find that a barrier flux made with a 50/50 ish mix of denatured alcohol and boric acid will produce better coverage vs the mix using water. This will help to temporarily prevent the copper from oxidizing. Keep in mind that your metal has to be clean so that the flux will cover the metal and not bead up. You’ll need a flow flux on the seams where you want solder to flow. The borax cone should be sufficient for this. Your solder should be fluxed as well so it doesn’t oxidize. This could be another reason solder will ball up and not flow.
Gerald mentioned Fred Fenster who developed a Frips formula based off of Prips, which is an all in one flux. It can be brushed or sprayed onto the metal. A search in the archives will offer more detailed info.
A step up from the butane torch is the Orca EZ Torch for Disposable Propane Tanks. The kit comes with several tips, hose and a regulator for a plumbers propane tank. This will get plenty hot. You don’t mention if you have any type of extraction system, which is necessary.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Pam
Hello,
regarding your dremel, what model did you get?
does it have a flex shaft and handpiece? footpedal? variable speed?
if not, i would suggest considering getting a jewelers flexshaft and a #30 jacobs chuck handpiece. If you can, get one with forward and reverse while you are at it.
or similar…there are a few different brands available…
…i say #30 hand piece because it has an adjustable chuck and will accept more than just 3/32” shafts as quick change handpieces are limited too…
it is beneficial to have a foot pedal, and to be able to control the speed…especially on the lower end…for better bur control, nit overheating (and thus dulling) cutting burs and drills.
i LOVE my Lucas Low Boy #9 rheistat foot pedal, better than the foredom foot pedals
https://lucasdentalcompany.com/photos
as an alternative, consider a micromotor, by Saeshin or Foredom.
Julie
Oh this problem takes me back decades. Way back in prehistory when I started, I enrolled at the Appalachian Center for Crafts. We did all of our initial work in copper. Copper likes lots of heat. Over the years I’ve made big and small items out of copper from 3 foot tall quick vessels to small delicate charms. BUT for your torch, doing small jewelry pieces it should work. What you have to learn and comfortable with is how to solder. Without pictures, we can’t give definite help. What surface are you soldering on? Are you concentrating your heat on one spot? Do you keep the flame moving? How long do you heat it? How far from the piece are you working the flame? What part of the flame are you using as the point of contact with the metal? What color does the metal turn as you are heating? How do you place the solder? Does the solder move as you heat the piece up? How long are you heating the piece? So you have a solderite board? How much borax are you mixing into the distilled water? are you heating from below or above the piece? These are all question we need to know so we can better zero in on what you are doing.
Good news, once you learn to control soldering, most of the rest it much easier. It takes practice and more practice. That is why my first professor had us start on copper. Not like when I was learning it now is a bit more expensive, and silver no longer costs less than 4 dollars an ounce in the form you want like sheet or wire.
More info please, and best of Luck, Aggie
Excellent, thank you Gerald. So happy and grateful to wake up to so many replies this morning. All of you are truly helping me on this beginning journey.
Aggie,
Oh man! Great questions! I just love that someone is diving in and asking me a million questions. This is the sort of feedback I need!
I can only thank you (and others who commented here) for sparing your precious time with a newbie like me. 
I imagine when I’m 15 years into this I will hopefully pay it forward and help others who are just starting out… Well, that is if the world is even in tact then and we’re all still able to do this work. Ahem…
Anyway, to answer your questions! I basically did 2 months of solid research. Mostly I bought college level textbooks and many older “guides” from the 60’s/70’s. I’m one who really wants the real knowledge before diving into something new and don’t want “sugar coated” versions of information. I do not intend on turning this into a little hobbyist effort. I want to jump right in to learning how to do the good stuff.
What surface are you soldering on? Are you concentrating your heat on one spot? Do you keep the flame moving? How long do you heat it? How far from the piece are you working the flame? What part of the flame are you using as the point of contact with the metal? What color does the metal turn as you are heating? How do you place the solder? Does the solder move as you heat the piece up? How long are you heating the piece? So you have a solderite board? How much borax are you mixing into the distilled water? are you heating from below or above the piece? These are all question we need to know so we can better zero in on what you are doing.
I’m using a rotating annealing pan filled with pumice, with a nice charcoal block plopped on top. I tired to purchase the largest “mini” butane torch I could find. I still think its probably not adequate enough as most people here are saying it probably won’t do. Here’s a picture of the largest size my mini gets. That’s maybe 4 inches in length on the flame?
Yes, I’m moving the flame gradually around the whole of the bezel loop (just trying to do a basic seam before soldering it to the backplate). You’ll see some silver in the picture there, that’s a different story, which I wouldn’t mind telling. A truly funny one I might share, but because of what happened, I immediately stopped working with the silver and decided to try with copper instead.
It seemed to take up to a minute or longer (60-120 seconds plus actually) to get the solder to melt at all with the copper bezel - at that point all it did was ball up into a drop and stop, never truly flowing up the seam. As for what part of the flame I’m using - well, I’m experimenting with all of it. I tried using the tip area at the end of the flame, then when I got frustrated after a minute went by and nothing - I zeroed in on it closer coming to the middle of the flame - thus witnessing a “green” flame effect and the color turn many colors. And, as for how I placed the solder; I placed a tiny 4mm piece or so (hard solder) directly at the bottom of the seam (touching) with the steel soldering pic (in photo). What I DID NOT DO is directly douse the solder in flux in advance, which some have said I should have done. As for the consistency of the borax - Anthony from “the bench” on youtube makes it look so easy, and he’s a master silversmith! All he uses is the “cone”. I used distilled water to avoid minerals interfering, and made a slurry paste consistency. When that didn’t work, I tried making it more watery. I perhaps didn’t clean the copper joinings well enough. They were well sanded and flushed out perfectly. I heated from above on this tiny one because I didn’t think I would need to do it from below when just dealing with a simple circle joining for a stone. I wasn’t yet to the stage of soldering the bezel to the copper backplate.
I will note that taking a “class” isn’t’ really doable because I left the city a long time ago (couldn’t stand the rat race, to say), and have happily been in the country the last ten years. That puts me at 3 hours away from the nearest studios where I would be able to take in person classes. I’m doing as much research as I can on my own. And so, I really do appreciate all of everyone’s help here. More than I can say!
I have a slightly different take on this than others. I wonder if you have a good flame on your butane torch…one that is a slightly reducing flame ( look this up, there are lots of pictures on line of what it should look like, slightly bushy and not too hissy. Check to make sure you have enough butane. Then make sure you are using the right part of the flame…again, you will see pictures on line of this, you use the tip of the small blue cone…if you get too close or too far away, you don’t have the heat you need to get hot enough to melt the solder or get the copper piece to the right temperature, and your flux is likely to evaporate before you get the solder to melt…in which case, the solder won’t flow, but will just ball up. If I were you I would cut a few snippets of solder and see if you can melt them quickly into balls on a soldering board or charcoal block. That tells you whether you are reaching soldering temp at all. If you can melt solder in 15 seconds or so, you should have enough heat for a small copper bezel. Your post says you are merely soldering a strip of copper, so unless it’s a very large bezel, a butane torch should do it. There are tutorials on line where folks teach soldering using a butane torch, so I don’t think regular size jewelry work (rings, bezels up to 12x20 or so) should be impossible with it. Yes, when you solder, you need to heat the bezel up first, so go round it a few times in a circle and then concentrate the heat more towards the join, but not on the solder snippet, which should be drawn into the joint. There are lots of videos on line of torch flame technique, so watch some. Let us know how you get on!
@ Julie,
Thanks so much for replying. I’m using the following Dremel : Dremel 4000-4
I was nervous to buy a more expensive rotary shaft - I suppose I figured a regular dremel would work out fine. I will absolutely consider this. I believe the dremel can be converted to a flexshaft with certain attachments? Not sure if that’s worth it to buy the attachment or just buy an entirely new one. I can always sell the dremel I have if needed. The dremel I have does have an adjustable chuck and also adjustable speeds. The lowest being 5,000RPM going all the way up to 35,000.
Angela
Hi Roy!
I’m super grateful that so many of you are replying and helping me get some valuable understanding/advice here.
To answer many of your questions, please see my reply to Aggie Here
There I posted a picture of my mini butane torch, and added a lot of information about where I might have gone wrong. I was answering all of her questions which are similar to yours… It seems my butane torch isn’t capable of getting that “bushy” look. It does have an adjustable setting, but it can only adjust so much. Its basically just one direct pierced shot forward and that’s about it.
I see… Will have to give it another go this morning. That is, if my butane torch is even adequate. I will probably switch to something else based off of people’s recommendations. The problem is ventilation. My desk it set up about 4 feet away from a storm door - so the best thing I have is leaving the door open for fresh air. I don’t have any other fancy ventilation set up so I’m concerned about using more powerful gasses. Will an open door be enough?
If I were you I would cut a few snippets of solder and see if you can melt them quickly into balls on a soldering board or charcoal block. That tells you whether you are reaching soldering temp at all. If you can melt solder in 15 seconds or so, you should have enough heat for a small copper bezel.
Will do this and get back with you! Its about a 1.5" circle? But will the butane torch be adequate for soldering that to a backplate should I pull off the initial circle seam this morning?
I’ve been looking at plenty of tutorials - I think its pretty clear I’m just going to have to get a better torch. 
I’m not a great fan of the #30, if you get a Foredom flexshaft or similar. Yes, you probably need one for the odd sized attachments that are not 3/32 shaft, but I find using that chuck key all the time a pain. Since most of my stuff is 3/32, I got an H.20 quick change handpiece with the lever. I got the one in the yellow box on ebay now for $49.99. It is probably a knock off, but mine has worked OK in part time use. The dremel you have may be fine for some things, but you might want lower rpm for things like setting burs. If you don’t want to go for the Foredom, you may be able to find a dremel type single speed and run it with a speed control or rheostat, altho’ this may shorten its life a little. There are used Foredoms and knockoffs for sale all over the place, and you should be able to get one for about $100 if you don’t mind hunting around. So when you are doing stuff that you think might work better at a slower speed, look for one.
Good morning Pam,
What a pleasant and kind reply. As I’ve said to others here, I’m so grateful for your time and assistance. I know everyone has a life to live and so taking time out of your day to throw a few tips my way is truly appreciated.
I have read about the 50/50 mix of the denatured alcohol and boric acid as a barrier. Do you use this method? I once read that some people only use this, even for the joins, and seem to be able to solder with no other flux other than this mixture. What do you personally use? Also, is this toxic?
When you say extraction system, do you mean adequate ventilation? Someone else asked about this - sadly I don’t have any ventilation other than the fact my desk is deliberately set up by a storm door. I leave that wide open when working. Is that going to be good enough? I am likely to upgrade to a propane tank and the Orca tip system, that sounds like the ticket to me. Propane isn’t too toxic to breathe in from time to time, as far as I know.
Thanks again for taking time for a newbie like myself.
Angela
So, I just did this - nope - it took 45 seconds to a minute, and that’s with the butane torch turned on full blast. Even if I pulled the torch in close it still took almost a minute to complete. I tried it with hard solder. Okay, propane torch purchase is in order today!
Hi,
take a moment and search the forum for flux(es)
lots of good information…i suggest searching Prips/ Pripps flux…those conversations often include other fluxes…
generally speaking:
you have what i call flow flux…it helps the solder flow, a wetting action, keeps the area free of oxides, for a period of time, blocking ixygen, as well as by absorbing (?) the oxides, until it us saturated and can absorb no more…it changes color as this occurs…experience and learn the color changes of various fluxes
then you have what i call barrier fluxes, that are more formulated to protect the surface of the metal while you are heating it
i believe the Prips (barrier) flux “marries time and heat”
boric acid, borax, tsp, water
one of the “b”’s extends working time, one allows for higher working heat…combined you get the benefits of both
i forget what the benefit of the tsp is…
to apply Prips, you gently heat the piece, and when you spray it on, it should immediately frost over. the spraying of it takes experimentation to get it right (i was using a spray bottle that had a “halo” spray pattern…no spray in the middle!!!..so the puece was untouched amy soldering board was getting saturated!
then you have the all in one liquid fluxes, that ate both flow and barrier fluxes…
happy searching and learning!
in addition to asking questions, and getting current replies, this forum has a wealth of information, on many topics, accumulated over time, that is near priceless!
julie
hi,
heat is at tip of inner blue cone…was that on the metal?
julie
Hi,
i have this older dremel, that i use for non-jewelry things, and on steel tools, outside of my studio…
it says speeds 5000- 30,000 rpm…somewhat imprecisely controlled by a switch with 5 settings…
in my humble opinion, the lowest speed (that i am experiencing on this particular unit) is way faster than i ever go on my flexshaft…i often use 5-15 rpms on my micromotor…
my flexshaft is a much utilized tool, even thought i hand sand alot…i think it is a good investment over a dremel…in terms of not putting unneccessary obstacles in the way of your learning process…(meaning tools that hinder rather than help)
i suggested the # 30 handpiece primarily due to its variable chuck…if i only had one handpiece, this is the one i would have…i have many hand pieces but i revert to it often…it is shorter and thus my wrist fights the shaft less…
and the lucas lowboy footpedal is well worth the price…it is very smooth and has an extremely light touch…i always felt my foredom footpedals were a bit jumpy outta the gate at low rpms…it also has a low profile pedal that is very comfortable…well made…metal construction…heavy…doesnt flip on its side if the cable torques…
just my thoughts
There has been a lot of good information here. The one thing I always tell myself when soldering, and it’s very important:
Remember that solder flows to where it’s the hottest, solder flows to where it’s the hottest! This is why you preheat the bezel, joints etc.
Sometimes the soldering blocks can act like a heat sink, where the piece being soldered won’t get hot enough. I found that it was best to be able to apply heat from all angles, particularly underneath the object being soldered. When the joint is hot enough, the solder will be drawn in, as mentioned. Heating just from the top will often cause the solder to burn, without getting the joint hot enough. Melting and remelting the solder raises the melting point where the solder just won’t flow.
Sometimes if the joint isn’t clean, the solder will not flow. By over heating the object, the barrier flux made with a 50/50 ish mix of denatured alcohol and boric acid will become contaminated. This needs to be cleaned.
Solder flows to where it’s the hottest!
Just my two cents ~
Tjones
Goldsmith
Angela,
I am confused…I don’t think that the heat capacity of copper is that much different from silver. I just looked at a Youtube video where the demonstrator used a torch similar to yours and melted two snippets of solder on a thick ring in about 25 seconds:
There are lots of videos of people using butane torches to make silver jewelry. Just use the search function and look at some. Your picture of your torch has a fairly large flame, larger than the one on my butane torch, and it looks neutral to slightly reducing to me. Maybe if you look at the videos, you will figure out what is going on. Can you post a picture of your bezel?
You have a nice charcoal block and a nice, fairly large butane torch, so I don’t see why solder won’t flow. I don’t think it is the fault of the torch. Just my opinion.
Hi
I taught jewellery making to students in the UK for many years using copper sheet and we used mini butane torches without a problem. I did suggest if they were working at home they create a hearth using fire bricks both under and around the item they were soldering. To grind their borax into a thick paste and liberally coat the joint they were soldering. Warm the whole piece, then place their solder pallions (coated in borax) on the join and concentrate the flame on that area.
I use the same process if I am making a small prototype at home but I now cheat and use solder paste, much cleaner and without the faff of borax.
V
I just did an experiment with two pieces of 18 gauge brass, I don’t have any heavy copper. I simulated soldering a bezel to a back plate with my GT 8000 butane torch. It was the biggest torch I could find at the time I bought it. They are very useful for many heating tasks in a shop. I use it to soften resin and dop wax, keep heat on my ingot mold while melting metal with my bigger torch to be cast in the hot mold and many other times when I need a little heat. I was able to solder the two pieces of brass together after cleaning the joint , doing a lot of preheating to the entire piece and then silver soldering the two pieces of brass together. They are joined well, but it is not a pretty joint. I am sure that you can solder brass or copper with a butane torch and in a pinch, I would do it myself. If you plan on any heavy work like 4 - 8 gauge sheet and wire, you need a bigger, hotter more adjustable torch. From the picture that you have posted, you seem to have spent some money on other tools. Do some research and buy a bigger torch. Keep in mind that your home owners insurance company and the local fire department might have something to say about what you buy. This has been covered well in many posts on this topic. Keep studying, but there is a lot to be learned from doing, failing and figuring out what went wrong. I have been doing it for almost 50 years. Right now I am trying out a new design idea and haven’t made a piece that wasn’t thrown in the scrap pile in two days. Good luck…Rob
All your equipment is fine: charcoal block, cone borax with distilled water, nice reducing flame on your torch, which although not big and bushy, is certainly big enough to melt a snippet of solder in seconds or a copper bezel join! So my guess would be (and this is the most common reason soldering fails) is that the pieces you are soldering are not sufficiently clean.
Janet in Jerusalem
(43 years at the bench)