Why is platinum popular?

Jewelry Discussion
41 
So what is the real bargain when shopping for jewellery? Obviously
where the overhead compared cost of labour and material is as
small as possible.

Ok, so next time I open a store I’m going to open it in an apartment
in a slum so that I can keep all of my costs down to a bare minimum.
Also I won’t invest in a safe, an alarm system, insurance, etc.
because I’ll have to keep my costs down. I’m sure my customers won’t
mind coming into a place where they can get held up immediately
after purchasing my jewelry, because my prices will be absolutely
rock bottom. I won’t have to do any advertising because everyone will
just know about me (probably from all the news articles about how
many times I and my customers have been held up). Plus, I’m sure no
one will actually need to see my goods under lights, or want to see
their diamonds under a microscope as I wouldn’t want to invest in any
of those things that might actually raise the prices of my goods. So
what if they can’t see those big inclusions in their stones.

I know, you’re all thinking about the internet. But jewelry is a
tactile sale. People need to feel it and see it. There will always
be a need for bricks and mortar stores and there is a limit to how
low overhead can go. Get real.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC

42

Thanks for the feedback Belle. I’ll give it a go after Christmas
hopefully. I’m sure that if the palladium white gold is the only
white metal in a piece, nobody’s going to know whether it’s white
gold or platinum and to me it doesn’t matter in the slightest.

Thanks again.

Helen
UK

43 
Jewelry Newbies would do well to remember that this is still the
internet where misis unfortunately abundant. The
tarnished silver will bleed darkness thru the girdle area. Anyone
can verify this themselves.

The darkness you refer to is called “fisheye effect”. It has nothing
to do with color of the metal. If pavilion angle of a diamond is
less then 40 degrees, the girdle reflection of the pavilion can be
seen. The shallower the angle, the more pronounced the effect. If
that is you experience, it means that you are working with shallow
cut diamonds. If you are not aware of this, you should change your
diamond supplier. In correctly cut diamond, girdle reflections are
not visible. So in this way, patinated silver is a quality assurance
metal.

Leonid Surpin

44 
One legacy of this is the fine craftsmanship tradition of carefully
azure cutting the metal behind diamond settings, rather than
leaving it solid, or just drilling round through holes. To a
degree, it's to lighten up the piece, but it's also the idea that
you need to let light in behind the stone. This was indeed
something that changed, sometimes improved, the appearance of old
stones. It stopped being really true once diamond cutting had
developed proper optics

Cutting daylights behind the stones is a must in my shop. Even if
diamond optics do not require it now, ease of cleaning is important
consideration. Regardless of how well the diamond is cut, once it
accumulates grease on the pavilion, it begins to leak light. Due to
diamond affinity to grease, this happens amazingly fast. If one eats
with his hands, like having a danish with a cup of coffee, a single
day of wear could be enough to change diamond’s appearance. That is
why jewellery must be cleaned as regularly as one brushes teeth, and
jewellery must be designed in such a manner, so it can be cleaned
with a tooth brush and warm soapy water.

Leonid Surpin

45 
The darkness you refer to is called "fisheye effect". It has
nothing to do with color of the metal. If pavilion angle of a
diamond is less then 40 degrees, the girdle reflection of the
pavilion can be seen.

No Leonid it does have to do with the color of the metal. The fisheye
effect does happen in poorly cut stones but any diamond surrounded by
metal that is tarnished will look darker, even my top color, top
clarity, ideal cut stones. I handle stones set in silver on a regular
basis and once the metal is tarnished the stones all look darker (and
worse to my eye—you can like the effect if you want). Neil is
absolutely correct on this. You can argue it until you’re blue in the
face but I really don’t think you’ve handled as many of these goods
as I have and I know it to be a fact from my personal (do I need to
say it again—only 35 years in the trade) experience.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC

46

There is a huge amount of misabout platinum alloys
floating around. Many folks don’t know which alloy to use for what
and they think platinum is platinum. A few things to remember,
Platinum got its reputation for strength and durability from the die
struck jewelry of the Art Deco period. Those items were highly work
hardened Pt/Ir 900/100 alloy that was at over Hv 200 from the die
striking process. In their annealed state most platinum alloys (see
below) are quite a bit softer than 18k standard yellow (750 Au 250
Cu 250 Ag) which in its annealed state is Hv 150 and can be work
hardened to Hv 225 or heat treated to Hv 250. For comparison 18K
nickel white (750 Au 140 Ni 110 Cu+Zn) is 220 Hv in its annealed
state and can be work hardened to Hv 350! Many of the platinum
wrought alloys can be work hardened into the 200-250 Hv range and
there are a couple that can be heat treated into the high Hv 300
range. Hardness figures will tell you a lot about resistance to
dinging and deformation and can give a good first approximation of
relative tensile strength between alloys, they will not tell you
about wear resistance though.

Hardness does not correlate to wear resistance and unfortunately
there is no accepted testing for wear resistance in the jewelry
industry so there are no standardized figures for it, but this is
where platinum really is superior to gold. It is much harder to
abrade platinum than gold. Don’t believe it, try to polish platinum
the same way you polish gold. You will quickly become a believer.

Platinum prongs designed properly with the correct alloy will
outlast gold ones due to platinum’s high abrasion resistance but if
you use the same prong cross section you would with 18k yellow and
cast in most Pt 950 alloys you are asking to loose a stone. If you
want fine delicate filigree with little structural support die strike
it or fabricate or cast in one of the heat treatable Pt alloys but
don’t expect the standard casting or wrought alloys to replicate the
old die struck work as you and your customer will be severely
disappointed.

So as always knowledge of the materials you are working with will
allow you to make the right design decisions.

Hardness values for Pt alloys (annealed)

Pt950 Alloys

Cu HV 120
Ir HV 80
Ru Hv 130
Pd Hv 60
Co Hv 136
W Hv 135

Plat/S+1 Hv 135 Hoover & Strong proprietary alloy (Steve Kretchmer
inventor)

Plat/S+2 Hv 170 Hoover & Strong proprietary heat treatable alloy
(Steve Kretchmer inventor) Hv 306 when heat treated Platinum HTA Hv
220 Imperial Smelting and Refining proprietary heat treatable alloy
Hv 340-380 when heat treated

Pt900 Alloys

Ir Hv 110
Co(3)Pd(7) Hv 125
Pd Hv 60

Jim

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts

1 Like
47 
I know, you're all thinking about the internet. But jewelry is a
tactile sale. People need to feel it and see it. There will always
be a need for bricks and mortar stores and there is a limit to how
low overhead can go. Get real.

My wife managing a brick and mortar establishment. Not jewellery. She
is in high end clothing. I have been having with her the same
argument: internet vs brick and mortar. I cannot convince her and I
know that I will not be able to convince you. I recently had to
attend a social event, so I needed a tuxedo. I do not like to wear
rentals. I had mine made in Bangkok. All it took was 3 emails. My
wife could not believe the quality of the tuxedo, the speed it was
made, how relatively inexpensive it was, and how smoothly everything
went. But she still argues that I am wrong about internet. I do not
think that I am wrong, but the time will tell.

Leonid Surpin

48 
No Leonid it does have to do with the color of the metal. The
fisheye effect does happen in poorly cut stones but any diamond
surrounded by metal that is tarnished will look darker, even my top
color, top clarity, ideal cut stones. I handle stones set in silver
on a regular basis and once the metal is tarnished the stones all
look darker (and worse to my eye---you can like the effect if you
want).

There are two issues. One is personal preference and the other one is
whether or not patinated silver can make diamond appear darker. I
have
nothing to say about personal preferences. But the notion that metal
supporting diamond can influence it color is simply wrong. It is
physical impossibility. Diamond is not see-through stone, unless cut
is severely mangled. There are maybe a “placebo effect”. You may not
like the way it look and it influences your judgement. Another
explanation may be that diamonds were simply dirty, or may be setting
itself was designed badly. There are many explanations possible. One
thing is certain. Well cut diamond cannot be influenced by color of
the setting. You can wrap the diamond in black velvet and it would
return as much reflection and as much fire as set in highly polished
platinum.

Leonid Surpin

49 
I'm sure that if the palladium white gold is the only white metal
in a piece, nobody's going to know whether it's white gold or
platinum and to me it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Oh no! I’ve just re-read my above comment and realise that some on
the list may take that to mean that I would want to deceive
potential customers by using a white gold alloy and “pretending” that
it’s platinum! That’s NOT what I meant at all, please be assured.

My comment was in response to views that palladium white looks like
platinum and then Daniel’s comment that it does NOT look like
platinum. I was trying to say that to me it doesn’t matter, ie I’m
not looking for something to look like platinum, just a white metal
alloy which doesn’t require rhodium plating (ie palladium white). My
intention at the moment, is to make a ring with a yellow gold shank
and white metal bezel settings for my stones. My choices are silver
(not keen), palladium white gold or palladium alloy. I’m leaning
towards the palladium alloy (no gold content) due to its lower cost.
Sure enough, if you were to put a palladium white gold ring next to
a platinum ring, you’d see the difference, just as you would if the
two metals were in a mokume gane billet. But in isolation, palladium
white gold is definitely a viable alternative to other white metal
alloys, as is the palladium alloy (no gold content) I want to try,
which is considerably cheaper than any gold alloy.

I hope I’ve cleared that up - or I may have made my intentions as
clear as mud!

Helen
UK

50 
That is why jewellery must be cleaned as regularly as one brushes
teeth, and jewellery must be designed in such a manner, so it can be
cleaned with a tooth brush and warm soapy water.

I think that’s a little over the top! Yes, jewellery does get dirty
very quickly and I cringe when I see my family members proudly
sporting their lovely rings full of dirt, grease, lotions and
potions. For some reason, people just don’t realise that jewellery
needs to be cleaned. Personally, and rather strangely considering
what I do, I cannot stand having dirty hands and am constantly
washing them (my kids tease me about having OCD!). So the diamonds in
my engagement ring and eternity ring quickly look dull because of all
the soap they’re exposed to, even though I always try to rinse
thoroughly. As a result, I choose to clean my rings about once a
fortnight. Cleaning as often as cleaning teeth is a little much.

Helen
UK

51

I’ve had this in mind- something most people know, if they think
about it. Since a very nice gentleman jerked a cracked molar out of
my jawbone yesterday and I’m just popping Vicodins today, why
not…Once again, it speaks to the actual question of the thread ;<}

Let us suppose you are a Neanderthal in Neanderthal times. Don’t get
on me for historical accuracy because that’s not the point… You
understand nothing. How things grow, what things are, where they come
from are all mysteries to you. It’s debatable you even understand
that babies come from sex. Let’s say that you can make stone tools
and wear clothing and have fire - that’s the accuracy part, I don’t
remember (or care, here). So, you’re walking along and you see a
yellow rock. Cool rock, you say, let’s smash it and see if we can
make a hunting knife out of it. So, you smash it, and lo and behold,
it doesn’t smash, it squashes like nothing you’ve ever seen before.
That alone makes your yellow rock very, very special indeed - no
other rock acts like that. You continue walking, and you find the
reddest, most beautiful rock, in the form of a crystal. Shiny like
the sun, deeply red and with a depth even a Neanderthal can see. You
try to make a knife out of that, too, but it smashes all of your
tools, and remains untouched like the day you found it. Also a Very,
Very Special Rock, indeed.

You show your friends your magical rocks, and they are all very
impressed, and everybody wants one just like it. So you go looking.
And you look, and you look and you look but you just can’t find
another rock of either kind. Perhaps these are the only rocks in
“the world” (about a square mile, then…;<}

Time marches on and the mythic qualities of gold and other precious
things only grows. Even the alchemists didn’t actually know what
they were doing, though they pretty much invented chemistry. But the
modern concepts of metals, acids, salts and anything related to
atomic theory were unknown to them. Gold was still a magical rock,
to them, though the working properties were long known. Thus we get
people with “golden tongues”, the golden rectangle, the golden
fleece, and multitudes of other references that elevate anything
golden to something more than the mundane.

The point being that, even though we do now know much about the
elements and the sciences, the question of why any and all of the
precious things are coveted is not so simple. The precious and
magical nature of gold was long ago imprinted on the collective
psyche, like it or not. And by extension other precious things, too.
Yes, there have been marketing schemes at various times - diamonds
are the benefactor of that, and especially the notion that one needs
an engagement ring and it must be diamond (a recent idea). But why
humans yearn for the rare and precious is much deeper than some
marketing ploy.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com

52 
The darkness you refer to is called "fisheye effect".

No, if I was referring to a fisheye I would have said a fisheye. I’m
talking about color bleeding thru the girdle and if anyone cares to
they can demonstrate it for themselves. Take a matched pair of
diamonds, dab a little black (you might discern green or red more
easily) magic marker on the girdle and adjacent facets (simulating
tarnished prongs or bezel) of one and compare the two. Don’t just do
a face up, look from several angles. Bright light, dim light. Naked
eye, loupe.

In correctly cut diamond, girdle reflections are not visible.

Again, I’m not talking about girdle reflections. And when was the
last time you saw an ideal in an antique silver setting? see comment
below.

it means that you are working with shallow cut diamonds. If you are
not aware of this, you should change your diamond supplier.

Nice conclusion jumping but that is not the case. But since you
seemed to frame this discussion around antiques I might point out
that old europeans, old miners and rosecuts are very far from ideal
cuts, even 60/60s. Perhapsif one accepts the inferior light
performance of old cuts as the diamond norm, the nuance of careful
planning for optimal appearance in new production is lost. Most old
miners leak light so badly what’s a little bit more? So I can see
how your misperception about silver and diamonds might occur. And
rose cuts? You can see right thru a rose cut like a pane of glass,
directly to the area behind the stone, maybe that’s why some are
foil backed. Had there been blackened silver there you will see it.

53 
The price of jewellery is the cost of material + cost of labour +
overhead.

Ummm actually that is the formula for cost to produce jewelry.

Jewelry sells for whatever buyer and seller agree upon. This is the
reason for outsourcing jewelry manufacturing overseas, to lower cost.
Same retail but with lower cost equals more profit or a competitive
edge.

But then again buyers of high quality want the high quality more
than they want a low price. So this is why we still have houses like
Oscar Heyman in NY. Their competitive advantage is the level of goods
and the level of craftsmanship.

Not everyone is motivated purely by bargainism.

54 
The darkness you refer to is called "fisheye effect". It has
nothing to do with color of the metal. If pavilion angle of a
diamond is less then 40 degrees, the girdle reflection of the
pavilion can be seen.

One of the things I was taught about at G.I.A. was that a “treatment”
for diamonds that was unethical is to put blue permanent marker on
the girdle of a diamond to hide yellow color.

I once had a guy that buys off the public pull a 1.25 CT. diamond out
of a setting as I wanted to buy it, and out of the platinum setting,
it was classified as a M color according to G.I.A. grading standards.
The diamond showed no yellow in the mounting. Guy who owned it was
pretty surprised, price difference for M color compared to G-H-I
color is quite substantial.

I am quite surprised that some who fabricate jewelry and has years of
experience would not know that a tarnished bezel would darken a
diamond as Daniel Spirer explained.

Diamonds set in any metal and not cleaned properly when heated during
re-tipping can look dark as the dirt turns to carbon. Usually this
happens to bead set diamonds, particularly with diamonds that do not
have a hole drilled through the bottom of whatever they are set in,
and it is the dirt around the girdle that carbonizes.

Richard Hart, G.G.

55 
I'm talking about color bleeding thru the girdle and if anyone
cares to they can demonstrate it for themselves.

Fact 1. Black color does not exist. We perceive black color as
absence of color. There is no active agent. We see reflected light.
When no light is reflected, we see it as black. In order for “black
color to bleed into diamond” a ray of black color must enter a
diamond. Since ray of black color cannot exist, therefore no
“bleeding” can take place.

Fact 2. When diamond is set and in mechanical contact with the
setting, there still a layer of air between the diamond and the
setting. A thickness of one molecule is enough. That means that
contact with metal does not change the optical differential between
diamond R.I. and R.I. of surrounding optical medium, and therefore
setting cannot have any influence on well cut diamond.

Fact 3. Your experiment with the pen is not applicable, because by
applying ink on the girdle, you do change the optical differential
and that does have an effect on appearance. But we talking about
diamond in mechanical contact with the setting. Ink forms a chemical
bond with the surface of the diamond.

Fact 4. If mechanical contact between the diamond and the setting is
modified by other substance like dirt, soap, grease, and etc; that
would have an effect on diamond appearance. That is why it is
important to keep jewellery clean.

If anybody is still unclear about diamond optics, I recommend a book
“Diamond Design” by Marcel Tolkowsky.

There is nothing more left to say on that subject.

Leonid Surpin

56 
I have been having with her the same argument: internet vs brick
and mortar.

I don’t believe clothes (like your tuxedo) and high end jewelry are
the same. My wife buys clothes on line all the time (and returns a
whole lot of them too). There are a lot of products that can be sold
on line and a lot of jewelry too. But I have had a website for about
10 years now and virtually all of the inquiries coming ONLY off of
the website have to do with price. Not quality, not design, not how
it’s made or anything else—just price (i.e how cheap is it?). The
internet is a fine medium for many things and it is obvious that
people will spend far more now than they would have a few years ago
online. But the reason there will always be a large need for fine
bricks and mortar jewelry store is because jewelry is a trust
dependent product and when you can’t see the product, feel the
product, talk to the people, etc. there is no trust built up. For
high end, better quality goods, it just doesn’t work. It’s the reason
that I routinely get kids in here with their diamonds they bought on
line and they want to know if they got what they paid for, or if it
is the same stone as described in the cert. The first thing I ask
them is why would you ever buy something from someone you don’t
trust. Inevitably they look at me cross eyed first, then try to
explain that oh yes they really do trust this source, but could you
please just look at the stone and tell me if it is what they said it
is. (Incidentally were it not for the proliferation of GIA’s diamond
grading system, they wouldn’t be able to buy diamonds on line with
any confidence at all.) For the most part every single one of those
diamonds is set in a plain Tiffany style setting (or often,
something so indescribably ugly and poorly made that it’s hard to
keep a straight face when you’re talking to them about it).

Do I think there are some more reasonable jewelry sales being made
online? Absolutely. I think there are people who have carved out a
nice niche for themselves and many who are doing quite well by it.
But try comparing two or three sapphires that have subtly different
colors but that are thousands of dollars apart in price on line. It
just isn’t possible. Try showing a customer the inclusions in a heat
treated ruby vs. a natural one. Try showing them the inclusions in
their stones (or lack of them). Try showing them differences in
luster on a $1000 strand of pearls and a $1250 strand of pearls.
These are the reasons that there will always be a need, and a strong
one, for bricks and mortar stores in this industry. And it’s why, no
matter what happens with the internet, I’ll still be in business 5,
10 and 20 years from now (although I’m going to be really, really old
by then).

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC

57 
But why humans yearn for the rare and precious

While its always good to know the motivators behind certain things,
there comes the point in this particular question where you find
there is no real answer that you can nail on the wall in a neat
little frame. Sometimes its wise just to accept things and get on
with it. I don’t know why people do what they do, but they do. So I
just accept that they do.

This goes with something I’ve been toying with as a new thread so I
might as well just do it here. There’s an undercurrent in a few
threads I detect. I think its got something to do with “I can’t
fathom people spending thousands of dollars on a shiny pebble that
gets scooped off the beach in Namibia, I don’t get it. I wouldn’t buy
a big diamond. Therefor I’ll avoid it and do something else”. Or
something like that. I’m being metaphorical.

Personally, I can’t fathom spending a 100 grand for a 69 Hemi Dodge
Charger. And I LOVE old cars! Hemi’s particularly. But, if I was in
the classic car restoration business I’ d be glad that people do
spend ludicrous amounts of money on what I did for a living. So if I
was a mechanic with a decisionto make I could do brake jobs for $600
a week or I could restore old cars and make so very much more. My
hands are gonna get greasy either way!

On that point I think asking WHY is apt to be more productive. Why
do I choose to make $600 a week? Maybe I’m afraid of the risk. Maybe
I’m afraid of myself. Maybe I just don’t have the capital. Whatever
the answer, once I know it maybe I can do something about unleashing
some potential.

I’m certainly not saying everyone should start out making gotchala
diamond rings. But if you’re an independent craftsperson and you keep
making $50-100 stuff, there’s only so much you can do. Think about
new financial horizons.

New price points. New ideas. Try the $500 market. Then the grandish.
Push the envelope. Push yourself.

I dunno, did I make ANY sense?

58

I was talking to a friend who was trained in Germany, and he was
telling me that palladium and platinum in Germany are not alloyed
the same as what is sold in the U.S. He said they are easier to work
with. Is anyone familiar with the difference between what they are
alloyed with in Europe as opposed to what is produced in the U.S.
Seemed to me that his point was that industry is in control of how
the metals are alloyed for production and not in relationship to the
needs of those who work with these metals for the best working
characteristics.

Richard Hart G.G.
Jewelers Gallery
Denver, Co.

59

Tarnished Silver Causing Colour Change In A Diamond
Hans Meevis

There has been a somewhat lively discussion on Orchid as to whether
the tarnishing of silver will affect the colour of a diamond set in
that material. On the one side were those that said no, using
optical properties of diamond as an argument, and on the other side
were those who said yes, using the experience of working with
antique silver jewellery set with diamonds as their argument.
However, to me, this stuff is not rocket science, and I don’t write
a million words about it. I just do the work and take pictures. Much
easier. The tube, normal silver…

View article…
http://meevis.ganoksin.com/blogs/2008/10/26/

60 
I am quite surprised that some who fabricate jewelry and has years
of experience would not know that a tarnished bezel would darken a
diamond as Daniel Spirer explained.

I guess it worth repeating again! The contact between diamond and
ink, or pain, or grease, or any other substance which adheres to the
surface of diamond is not the same like diamond in mechanical
(physically touching) contact with a setting. Diamond may appear to
touch the setting, but on a molecular level, they are not. Diamonds
are not in optical contact with the setting; ink, grease, any other
substance capable of wetting (adhere to) the diamond surface, is.

To assure yourself of this fact, understand this! If diamond (or any
other stone) would be in optical contact with the setting, no prongs
or turning up the bezel would be necessary, because any stone in
optical contact with the surface, by definition is in molecular
contact with the surface. That means that all air was displaced and
atmospheric pressure in the space between diamond and setting is
zero. Such a stone would be held firmly in place by atmospheric
pressure from the outside. Vacuum attachments work on the same
principal. So if optical contact was reality, than the setting of a
diamond would simply be an act of placing a diamond in the setting.
Nothing else would be required. For any other elucidation of the
subject, a chapter from grade school physics book explaining
atmospheric pressure should be very helpful.

One question remains unanswered. Why sometimes diamond in and out of
the setting looks different? The answer is any foreign substance in
the setting like grease, sweat, wax, soap can and will form optical
contact. That is exactly why settings must carefully designed to
minimize accumulation of foreign substances and to allow for easy
removal of such substances when they do accumulate. Anybody shopping
for jewellery, should turn it around and look under. If all one sees
are small round holes marking the location of diamonds, do yourself a
favor and look elsewhere.

To anticipate a question " if grease forms an optical contact, then
such a stone should be held in place by atmospheric pressure. Why
then it is possible to remove such stone with relative ease?" The
answer “because grease or any other substance is easily deformed and
local vacuum is easily disrupted. That is why instruction on use of
vacuum attachments always specify that surface must be dry and grease
free”.

I guess it will be appropriate to end this post with the suggestion
to avoid statements like:

I am quite surprised that some who fabricate jewelry and has years
of experience would not know...

The statement carries and assumption that person issuing the
statement is an authority on the subject. This is rarely the case.
The
chinese saying “wise man walks humble!” seems quite appropriate here.

Leonid Surpin