Twisted Wire Bangles

Thanks to John Donivan for the great link to the British Museum’s
twist wire bangles. The wire used by the ancients was made by cutting
flat strips of high karat gold and twisting them until they became
wire-like. Tapered wires where made by twisting a strip with a slight
taper. When bundled together the ancient goldsmith was able to make a
beautiful graduated twist. A lot of earrings were made this way.

My question is this: does anyone know of a modern way to make
tapered round wire? I’m thinking of a 3 or 4 degree taper (or less)
over a length of 1 to 6 inches.

Dennis Smith

1 Like
Yurman has a "Trade Dress" copyright. 

It is the charm of forums that this thread has gone beyond, “How do I
twist wire?” I was curious about a Trade Dress copyright, having
never heard of it, so, good ol’ Google. I’m no lawyer, and I don’t
want to be one, so I only looked so deep. Trade dress is a
“look-and-feel” copyright. The examples I read were MacDonalds’
arches and colors, Reebock’s triple band logo and colors and such.
One example was a letter written by someone about a copycat web site

  • all the (distinctive) colors were the same, all the buttons were
    the
    same, etc. Another good example was a cola in a certain red color
    can, with certain white lettering saying “Classic Cola”. Since nobody
    can copyright twisted wire - some of Yurman’s bigger designs ARE
    quite
    distinctive, though - I don’t believe the Trade Dress copyright is
    about his product, it’s about his presentation - I could be wrong,
    though. Nothing I read said anything about it covering a whole body
    of work in one swell foop, it was all about packaging (mentioned
    specifically), storefronts, websites and the like…

Dear Hans,

Can you tell me how you joined the stainless steel yacht cable to
make the bangle? Sounds like a good design idea.

Elizabeth Gordon-Mills
South Australia

Hi Elizabeth,

Can you tell me how you joined the stainless steel yacht cable to
make the bangle? Sounds like a good design idea.

The one in the picture is riveted.

What I do on the end cap is to solder the ends of the cable together
with silver solder to stop the ends splaying out and make it
drillable. Stainless steel is a bit of a mission to solder, but if
it clean it does behave. The gold caps are the tightly fitted over
and I drill a 1mm hole for riveting. One thing. I you solder
stainless steel it goes black. Then a platinum polish brings it back
to a shine. If I leave it dicolored, it forms a rust stain after a
while. I tested this first for a few weeks in the very corrosive
St.Maarten atmosphere. However, after I polished it, it did not form
any rust stains at all. The resident metal experts on this list will
know more as to why, I am sure. Speaking of design ideas, I also
removed a few strands of the stainless wire and replaced them with
gold. I looked quite effective. Also I rolled the cable square and
then made it into a bangle. An lastly, I did the compression/
composite tubing thing,

see Composite Metal Compression Rods

with limited success. The strands kept on lifting so it was not so
successful. As usual, nothing on my website is copyrighted or
patented,or jealously guarded in dark and damp bank vaults! ( grin)

Cheers, Hans Meevis
http://www.meevis.com

Yurman has a "Trade Dress" copyright. 

What a coincidence! We recently got a letter from the Yurman lawyer
suggesting that we copied his “registered copyrighted designs”. It
goes like this…

  Dear Sir or Madam: 

  I am General Counsel for David Yurman, the designer and
  manufacturer of the eponymous luxury jewelry brand, prominently
  advertised and sold in North America and Europe. David Yurman,
  as I am certain you know, has invested his time and resources
  in his designs, his valuable intellectual property, with a
  national advertising campaign and by securing copyright
  registrations for many of his distinctive designs. 

  A recent visit to your web site, Silbers.com shows that you
  are selling numerous pieces that appear to copy Yurman's
  registered copyrighted designs. I ask that you provide me with
  independent proof of your design of the following sixteen (16)
  works: SS80875-PL-CK SS81004-MP-BR ... (14 other styles) ...
  Thank you for your attention to this inquiry. I look forward to
  your response. Very truly yours,

… And it is signed Susan Spagna VP of Human resources and Legal
Counsel.

I’d like to mention that she (or some associate of hers) gained
access to our website by providing false

We are a very small family business that sell jewelry to retail
stores across the U.S. We have been designing our jewelry for years
(20+ years) and sending it to factories overseas to produce. How are
we supposed to provide “independent proof”? Provide recorded phone
conversations between our designer and the model-maker overseas?

I can’t even determine how these are similar to any of Yurman’s
styles. Most of the items that were listed include something we call
‘floating pearls’. On his website, I don’t see any styles that are
even close. So why do they do this? To put a small family business
OUT of business? Any ideas how to tackle this would be greatly
appreciated. I know one idea will be to seek the advice of a lawyer,
but lawyers are very expensive…

Thanks!

On his website, I don't see any styles that are even close. So why
do they do this? To put a small family business 

If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, etc… I, for one, can’t
help you (don’t know) with the legal issues. This Yurman guy is
starting to sound more and more lie a real $!$. My suspicion is that
he sees lawsuits as a profit center- not uncommon these days. Anyway,
my sympathies, like that’s going to help… Me, I’d fight him tooth
and nail, it’s not like his work is original or anything…

Wow, Hans…that is incredible. Loved looking at your step by step
of the composite metals.

Bench Jeweler, designer, instructor Rose Marie Christison

It seems to me that all of you folks who are trying to figure out
how Yurman creates - are walking on egg shells! The technique is
intriguing, but to try to copy is insane.

RMC

I'd fight him tooth and nail 

Well, being one who posted some in this thread I was going to chill
for abit but a few cents more…

What have we got here? A rather politely worded letter. Not the
bellicose demand that we might have anticipated. But the letter comes
from a pretty big power in the industry.

Let’s look at it pragmatically. They have the resources to put a
stop to production. One may choose to fight in court but what will be
the effect of that? Legal fees. And they won’t be insignificant. They
well could break this manufacturer’s company. Add the possibiltity of
a damages award.

One can be entirely certain of one’s case, but once the legal
proceedings begin the manufacturer will assume a huge burden that not
only has risks of its own but will distract him from running his
company.

If I were in these shoes I would appraise my realistic chances,
costs and benefits. Basically, “Have I inadvertantly infringed? Do I
make enough money from this line to make it worthwhile to fight? Do I
have the resources? What is the track record in these cases? Am I
fighting for economic reasons or personal? If it costs $X to defend
litigation can that money be more fruitfully spent developing a new
line?”

One would probably not find an attorney to defend on contingency,
there is no potential settlement to lure a lawyer, unless there is a
countersuit. Even then, its not a whiplash injury. Defence will cost
hard money upfront and on a continueing basis until resolved.

I would take the polite tone of the letter in a positive light. I
absolutely would not fire off a quick response. I would hire an
attorney versed in these matters so I could fully appreciate my
situation. Perhaps there is room for some sort of negotiation or
‘friendly’ understanding.

I would go with what is best for the company. Survival and
profitablility. It’s wise to pick your battles. This might seem like
capitulation to some, but to me it seems prudent. But then hey, I’m
not fabulously successful.

So why do they do this? To put a small family business OUT of
business? Any ideas how to tackle this would be greatly
appreciated. I know one idea will be to seek the advice of a
lawyer, but lawyers are very expensive... 

Going out of business is even more expensive. A consultation with a
lawyer who specializes in this type of activity will probably set you
back only a few hundred dollars and I’m willing to bet that once he
analyzes your product he’ll be able to get Yurman’s people to call
their dogs off . Your product may bear some resemblance to Yurman’s
but if you used a method other than the one he copyrighted to give it
that appearance, he can’t really touch you. Then there is the
question of intent…but That’s why you need a lawyer.

Dee

Yurman has a "Trade Dress" copyright. 

Actually “trade dress” is NOT part of copyright law but of TRADEMARK
law.

national advertising campaign and by securing copyright
registrations for many of his distinctive designs. 

You haven’t quoted the whole letter and any response MUST take into
account ALL the details. For example it looks. from the parts you
supplied, like a “fishing expedition” (or perhaps a “harassment”
letter) and not a bona fide “cease and desist” letter. Yes, you
should consult a lawyer but I think your reply needs to go not to the
inquiring firm but to their BAR ASSOCIATION (with a nice CC to them,
of course) that makes a formal complaint against their behavior and
asks for any other such complaints already lodged against them or
associated with the name “Yurman”. (Please note an attorney will most
likely be reluctant to complain to the bar association because they
have a vested interest in bar associations NOT enforcing the ethics
pledges all attorneys take but seldom obey.) Also request a statement
of their ethics policy and any swear-in oath that they might have.

In that letter politely note that this looks like an harassment
letter in the form of a fishing expedition and fails to identify
specifically what “secured copyright registrations” are actually
being infringed and specifically tied to exactly which of your
designs. Also note that as far as you know there is no such beast as
a “secured copyright registration,” copyright is a mere
“registration” system with no “approval” process at all that might be
considered to “secure” a party’s rights.

The Copyright Office simply ACCEPTS the statement of the author ( or
some appropriate designee) that: “I, the undersigned, hereby certify
that I am the author of the work identified in this application and
that the statements made by me in this application are correct to the
best of my knowledge.”

But even swearing to that is not necessary to “claim” copyright (and
you can own a copyright without claiming it at all too). And their
swearing also means they ACCEPT the limitations that 'Copyright in a
work of the visual arts protects those pictorial, graphic, or
sculptural elements that, either alone or in combination, represent
an “original work of authorship.” The statute declares: “In no case
does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend
to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation,
concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it
is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”

Given that the attorney has written you they MUST have prepared a
WRITTEN evaluation of precisely what “elements, alone, or in
combination” are Yurman’s versus each of your works. Ask the bar
association to secure a copy of that and forward it to you.

Also note that you have catalogs, images, price lists, etc. (IF YOU
DO OF COURSE???–or accurately whatever you do have) for your
entire 20 years in business, and some sources for the “inspiration”
of some pieces, and you will be delighted to provide same when you
have been specifically demanded to provide same in response to a
specific, documented, legal request to do so, not based on a mere
“fishing expedition.”

I strongly suspect you will NEVER HEAR A WORD more from either the
bar association or Yurman’s (so called) attorney (who may have
sufficient ethics violations in “burning hours” on a client with
money but little oversight, to get them a wink from the bar
association).

Good luck but try not to lose too much sleep. Do, however, institute
a policy where your designer MUST document with dates what they do
and any “inspiration” sources with a copy to you and one they must
keep forever.

James E. White
Inventor, Marketer, and Author of “Will It Sell? How to Determine If
Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable (Before Wasting Money on a
Patent)” Info Sites: www.willitsell.com www.inventorhome.com,
www.idearights.com www.taletyano.com www.booksforinventors.com

Then there is the question of intent 

I’m not convinced intent enters into the picture as far as
determining infringement. A well known case in point is that of
musician George Harrison. As some may remember he was successfully
sued over what amounts to three(?) notes in the song My Sweet Lord
which do bear striking resemblance to He’s So Fine. Did Harrison sit
down to ripoff the Shirrells? I kinda doubt it.

The evolution of this thread is quite interesting. I think the
subject is important not just from a Yurman specific point of view
but that of a more generalized principle. In the archives I’ve read
numerous comments about the anxiety of being copied. Common response
is to ‘enforce your copyright’. Yet here is a company that does just
that and they become the target of complaints. Some seem to say of
Mr. Yurman’s pieces that they are not original so a copyright should
not apply. I would say they are original as a design concept. The
line is quite distinctive. What’s the first thought in your mind
when you see cabley, knobular knockoffs for sale? “Oh, he’s just
trying to look like Yurman”? Wouldn’t that suggest that Yurman IS a
distinctive look? One which no doubt took time and effort to develop?
So far, the courts seem to agree.

Hi

But even swearing to that is not necessary to "claim" copyright
(and you can own a copyright without claiming it at all too). And
their swearing also means they ACCEPT the limitations that
'Copyright in a work of the visual arts protects those pictorial,
graphic, or sculptural elements that, either alone or in
combination, represent an "original work of authorship. 

So, if one of Yurman’s pieces looked exactly like a piece that was
made long ago and one were to produce a picture of this ancient
work, would it then void Yurman’s copyright protection? It seems that
it would cease to be “an original work of authorship” at that point.

Given that the attorney has written you they MUST have prepared a
WRITTEN evaluation of precisely what "elements, alone, or in
combination" are Yurman's versus each of your works 

James White, I am moved to thank you for your response, even though
I am not in this situation and doubt that I ever will be. Such a
clear and informed response from the guy who “wrote the book” shows
a couple of things-- lawyers like to, and can, intimidate those of
us who are not well-versed in the law (and may not be able to
find/afford good advice), and the internet in general and this forum
in particular are an invaluable way to exchange It is
generous of you to step in and show how ridiculous this “Yurman”
letter is, and that there is a way to deal with it.

Noel

OK, I have been a lurker for a long time, but I feel as though I
need to get involved in this thread. To James E. White: I am a lawyer
myself, though not a copyright lawyer. I agree with most of what you
said. HOWEVER there was no need for the gratuitous insult to lawyers
generally. There are many reasons why lawyers do not routinely send
letters to bar associations. For one thing, the bar associations are
not there to arbitrate brawls among lawyers. For another, if I report
another lawyer to a bar association, it is likely that they will
accuse me of just trying to get business at their expense. And so on.
In addition, your swipe at the bar associations themselves is totally
unwarranted.

In any profession or line of business, people behave in accordance
with their own standards of ethical conduct. The professional ethics
rules are there, in the law, in order to provide a minimum standard
of conduct. There will, nevertheless, be many grey areas and
interpretive issues which will be interpreted differently by
different people.

That said, a complaint from a target of a lawyer is likely to have a
lot more weight than a complaint from another lawyer.

The rest of your message I agree with. It is quite likely that this
is just a bluff/harassment letter. The best thing to do is send a
letter back asking what precisely they claim is copyrighted.

Regarding the letter someone got from Yurman’s lawyer regarding
copyright infringement, the first thing is to get as much information
as possible from the other side. I believe a person receiving this
type of letter has a right to request including proof of
copyright and copies of images that they believe are being infringed
upon. I don’t think you need a lawyer to request this
Acknowledge their request by telling them you want to cooperate to
resolve this and you do not want to infringe on the copyright and
that you will cease and desist if this is the case. I have been
threatened with legal action because of something someone thought I
was copying that one of my employees created. I asked for proof of
copyright and have it submitted by your lawyer. I believe that the
law is, you cannot call someone on the phone, you must send a letter
in a situation like this. This was during the heat of the
metaphysical craze when goddess jewelry was so hot. Someone copied
historical goddess statues and manufactured them. My employee
created one that was not based on the historical statues, and
apparently the person who copied the historical statues thought she
had a right to any image of a woman as a statue. After asking for
proof, and requesting that her lawyer contact us, we never heard from
her again.

Richard Hart

Hello Everyone,

I have attached a link to the Shop NBC web site, a jewelry
television channel. They have a fantastic designer who sells beautiful
cable like jewelry that is very similar to Yurman’s designs.

http://tinyurl.com/yerxjb

I’m just starting out learning jewelry making, but wanted to try to
help, so when I found this I thought maybe it would help ? Hope it
does…

Regards,
Rosanne

One thing to keep in mind in copyright infringement cases (and I
learned this when I was in the software biz) is that if the plaintiff
cannot assign a specific amount of damages, he gets the grand sum of
$ 1.00 for every item you have sold that “infringes”. If you sold 20
items, he gets 20 bucks. Hardly worth $ 50,000 in legal fees. If
you’re going to “copy” someone who has already copied, don’t "copy"
too much. :wink:

Brian Corll
Vassar Jewelers

Wow, what a response. Thanks everyone for your input and support.

Yes, I did quote the WHOLE letter (other than the list of our
styles), completely. The letter was written and signed by Susan
Spagna, VP Human Resources and General Counsel for Yurman, so I don’t
think she belongs to a third party law firm. But I must say, she
certainly has a lot of time on her hands if she is scouring our
website looking for copies.

Although the message subject on these orchid postings is “Twisted
Wire Bangles”, we do not produce anything like that. The styles that
were identified by Yurman are bracelets, necklaces and earrings that
consist of plain and twisted wire links with some 3D cage-like links
that have pearls enclosed within. I couldn’t find anything like it on
the Yurman website.

I will keep orchid updated on progress in this case…

Avi Meir
www.silbers.com

I’ve been trying to follow this thread as I find it very
interesting. I guess I have 2 questions.

  1. what is a “twisted bangle”? From all my reading I keep getting
    vision of the “Q Bracelet” advertised on tv that is supposed to cure
    about any thing that aches or pains you.

  2. is this really a question of intellectual property
    proprietorship? That can be patented but if we are talking something
    like packageing doesn’t that fall under Trademark regulations?I
    honestly don’t know and would like to understandthis better.

John (Jack) Sexton