I just went down and spent 20 minutes trying to use my single office tips. It was an exercise in frustration as I had a lot of trouble just getting them to light and sustain a flame. When I did I remembered that they produced a very focused and intense flame. This may be good for those metals that need a lot of heat to fuse or solder, but I never liked it for silver. I might try them for flame printing if I can keep them lit. I think that it should be pointed out that I, and many others in this discussion, use non-regulated propane from small cylinders and O2 concentrators that are also not regulated. These concentrators also limit the amount of O2 available. I am not smart enough to know the science of why this may make a difference in our choice of tips, I just know that my Paige tips have made a big difference in my torch work. Please know that I have no connection to Paige Tools other than that I buy and use their tools. These are important discussions. Thanks…Rob
I just had one of the worst customer experiences ever with the Paige tips company. I’ll do another thread about it because others should know. Totally insane and unprofessional.
I think that they monitor ganoksin, let’s see what they have to say…Rob
Let’s hope it was just someone having a terrible day (and let’s hope they’re okay) and they apologize and make it right.
I am a huge proponent of excellent customer service so hopefully they mirror that attitude of taking care of their fellow small business customers.
I once had an email exchange with them and got a sarcastic and uncalled-for reply, but not nearly as bad as your experience. Such a shame.
Neil A
I had a somewhat similar issue with the owner Richard Paille. It doesn’t take much to set him off. Most of the time he is super helpful and I respect him and his product. For what it’s worth… Judy H
When you have a well designed, but unpatented, premium-priced product that is easily copied and sold for much less, you are going to tend to get paranoid about knock-offs and cheap competition if your economic survival depends on your limited line of products. It’s just in the nature of the case. The only remedy is more new products and ceaseless innovation and torch tips are a difficult product to continually improve. There’s only so much you can do with one, I guess.
-royjohn
Rob, do you use the disposable propane canisters? I was curious if that size lasts very long and if you are able to recycle them. I am currently using acetylene/air but would love to not depend on canisters in my home studio.
Thinking of setting up a propane and with O2 concentrator, but have read that getting enough heat to fuse (Argentium) might be difficult with the disposable bottles. (Per Rio as well I think.) Would the Paige tips make any difference with regard to heat output? And would you suppose that melting/fusing with disposable propane bottles totally infeasible?
I use the green Coleman 1 lb. disposable camp stove cylinders that you can buy at most hardware stores like ACE, Lowes or Home Depot for around $13/2 cylinders. These are the shorter, larger diameter cylinders, not the tall thinner ones. There is a difference. I throw them away in our recycle bins as scrap metal when they are empty. They last me around 2 - 4 months and I use them daily. I am not sure about fusing Argentium as I don’t work with Argentium. It would probably depend on your O2 supply. I am not sure if Paige tips put out any more heat than other tips, I just find them more reliable with a 1 lb propane cylinder/O2 concentrator system…Rob
I have a setup like Rob’s.
A large propane distributor in my area accepts the used containers for recycling. You might be able to find one that will.
I work almost exclusively with Argentium. Argentium conducts heat less well compared to standard sterling and fine silver so the heat from your torch can build up rather than flow away. Argentium also has a lower melting point, so it is easy to get the surface of the Argentium above the solidus point, where it will fuse. Argentium fuses pretty easily. It also melts pretty easily if you hold your torch on too long when fusing.
Neil A
I have mentioned in other discussions that you can buy refillable 1 lb. propane cylinders. I bought a pair and a refill valve from Flame King before I learned that the disposables would last me from 3-4 months depending on the time of year and my shop activity. They refill from a 20 lb. BBQ gas grill cylinder. I sold the entire system last year to someone who has an RV. You will also find you tube videos of how to fill a disposable cylinder. I have done this as an experiment, but don’t recommend that you do it for obvious reasons. My shop can easily absorb a yearly expense of less than $50 for my propane in 1 lb. disposable cylinders…Rob
Thanks all for really helpful info here. This kind of sharing, helpfulness and openness is what makes this community my go to with questions.
I use the Coleman green cylinders as well. With the Little Torch and an O2 concentrator they do the job. I have an EZ torch at my daughter’s house that I use when I am in Indiana. That too does the job but it takes longer to create enough heart and the hose is way too short.
The price of the green cylinders is pretty low compared to acetylene and a NG compressor. And they do last a good while as long as you aren’t doing some big melts.
Don.
I have a video on You tube using Paige tool tips with an oxygen concentrator. Shortly after I had been using them for a while. I liked them so much I bought more. I had 2 tips that melted while I was using them (extremely dangerous) Also one arm that went to the tip stopped working no air flow. All not good, Contacted the owner who was unapologetic and accused me of using them improperly. Many of my students experienced the same. Told my story to Otto Frei and they sent me IMPGEN multi port tips to check out and they are absolutely fantastic. I do not recommend the Paige tips! I use the IMPGEN OX3 & OX4 mostly they are safe and awesome. Let me know if you have any other questions.
here’s the video on the concentrator…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygT64TYMhfY&t=686s
I use a blow pipe torch when fusing 22k gold its wonderful!
Paige clearly defines where their tips should and shouldn’t be used. M for soldering, MX for melting and MA for annealing. I learned this the hard way when I was using a #2 M to fuse the edge of copper bracelets back when I still ran regulated propane and O2… The tip came apart as it was exposed to heat outside its design range. I discussed this with Richard and bought another #2. I have not had a problem working with Piage Tools and am sorry that others are. This is something that Paige Tools should address. On another subject, I very much need to buy a Swiss #2 flat file. Rio is out of them and all other files from the same supplier. I have gotten two different answers to my question of when they might be in stock, both at least a month out. I don’t want a German file because I have never used them and they are numbered differently. I have had trouble finding out what the German equivalent is to a #2 Swiss. My thought is that a company that makes money supplying people who do what we do should always have in stock something as basic as a #2 Swiss file. We have been bashing suppliers lately. I think that it is fair to pass on our experiences with suppliers both good and bad…Rob
Rob –
Here’s a conversion chart for files:
File numbering system, german to swiss cut conversion table
Friedrich Dick are great.
– alonzo
Otto Frei has 4", 8" and 10" flat files in a Swiss #2 cut, if I read this right:
Neil A
Neil…I know that I can find these files at other places. I was trying to put together a $250 order at Rio to get free shipping. I am a wholesale customer. My theoretical order included these files, several different small cabs in quantity , a bit of silver and another tool. Several of the stones were back ordered as was the file (I wanted 2 files as I like to keep a spare). I couldn’t get to $250 no matter how I configured the order. In the past, they would take the order and ship the back ordered items when they were available. This would have been fine since I don’t need any of the back ordered items right away. When I called to ask about the back ordered items, I was told that they would be happy to take a separate order for the back ordered items, but they would be subject to shipping as would be the items that they could ship straight away since neither of the orders separately added up to $250. I didn’t create the back order condition, so why should I pay a penalty. For me it’s getting to where I am taking my business elsewhere as Rio is not the Rio I dealt with before they became a Berkshire Hathaway Company…Rob
I had a Rio Pro account, but as you say, after Berkshire Hathaway the conditions became more onerous, and Rio isn’t what it used to be. Given the choice I tend to prefer Otto Frei and Stuller these days. Both seem a lot friendlier to me.
I have an Artisan account with Stuller, and if something is back-ordered they charge shipping on that too. (Might be different for their regular accounts, I dunno.) Stuller’s shipping is not low-priced.
Sadly, shipping has gotten to be very expensive almost everywhere.
Neil A