It's just copper, who'll buy it?

Jewelry Discussion
41 
The "Perceived cheapness" has increasingly little to do with
reality. Copper price is rising.

This thread and the thread about “semiprecious stones” have much in
common. Many of you may remember this, but for others there was an
ongoing routine on Saturday Night Live where they reviewed the
“news”, and Garrett Morris would give help to the hearing impaired.
He did that by yelling, “OUR TOP STORIES TONIGHT…” very funny.
They’re doing the same with the governor from Alaska, lately - saying
it loudly, like it becomes truth that way. Today copper is $2.90 a
pound - that is reality. Today platinum is $1001 an ounce - that is
reality. For the price of a pound of copper, you can buy a piece of
platinum about the size of a grain of rice (or less) - that is
reality. Then you factor in the oxidation of copper, the general
dirtiness of it, turning skin green, the taste in the mouth, and
contrast that with gold and platinum, which have none of the above.
I’ve been supporting the use of any materials on this thread,
because I do support that. But let’s not pretend. All of the metals
are what they are (as are gemstones), and lobbying for some position
is inherently foolish. Most people want jewelry made from at least
silver, and most people want gold, statistically. There are many
reasons for that, which have evolved over history. One of the
foremost is the “nobility” of those metals - they don’t tarnish or
rust or even change much over time. I’m with you all - if you are
successful with any materials, I’ll applaud that. But the world has
it’s own opinion about what they want to buy and wear, TYVM.

42 
But then, I'm an artist. I leave the endless uninteresting repeat
jewelry to the stores at the mall.

I’ll leave the quote above anonymous, because to me it represents a
generic point of view that I’ve had in mind for a time. That being,
as has been actually written here on Orchid:

Gold = “uninteresting repeat jewelry”
Fine jewelry = Costco
Goldsmithing = Chain stores
Goldsmithing = boring

And by extension, design in gold is somehow limited, and other
materials are somehow “free”.

But you see, I’m an artist, too, and I work in gold and platinum. As
does Andy Cooperman, Alan Revere and a host of other names, and
others like me who don’t do the PR thing… I’ve never set foot in a
Costco, likely never will, and if I did I wouldn’t go to the jewelry
department. I could go on and name the great goldsmiths of the past -
Lalique, Castellani, Michael Perchin, and hundreds of others. There
are thousands of goldsmiths right now who are working at the highest
levels of design and craftsmanship - most of them are doing just
exactly what they want to do, like me. Just lately someone gave me a
very unique, very expensive stone and said, “Make something nice with
that - no, there’s no budget…”

The point being that I suspect there are some sour grapes at work
with some - “I don’t work at that level - more importantly, that
budget - so therefore my humble materials are somehow better and
more free.” Nope. The names I mentioned, and myself, are doing
nothing different than anybody else here - we are designing and
making jewelry just like everybody - none of us are chain store or
Costco or “uninteresting repeat jewelry”, we just work with bigger
budgets, mostly. And we have cash flow.

It is intellectually dangerous to block off any facet of the world -
it is equally dangerous to dismiss the major part of the world’s
jewelry makers because it isn’t what one likes to do or buy.
Goldsmiths are simply people who make things out of gold. That being
the most malleable and most ductile metal by far, by definition.
WHAT they make out of gold is entirely up to them, and many are
making the finest and highest design jewelry in the world, year
after year. I have my eyes open - I appreciate and enjoy everybody’s
efforts here even if it’s not for me, and I’d suggest everybody else
does the same. And keep out of Costco and chain stores - walk into
Cartier or Van Cleef, instead.

43 
I want to make silver and gold jewellery. Not the stuff you get at
the mall store, as that is boring.

Eons ago I wanted to be a machinist. Got training. My dream was to
have my own shop doing model making. Then I got a job.

They put me on a bank of 8 drill presses and I drilled madly away.
Foreman said I had real potential.

For a month. then I got bored (no pun intended) and quit. It was
oppressive monotony.

But I could drill, countersink, tap, read blueprints like a demon.

So then I decided jewelry was the thing for me. Trained myself as
there was none available to me. Got a job. Sized a bazillion rings
and tipped a trillion prongs, set a few stones too. Boring? yeah
sometimes. But I could make jewelry OK. Seven years later I owned my
own business.

My point is ya got ta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues.
Your designs will improve as your skills improve. Don’t discount the
boring stuff, its how you learn.

44 
walk into Cartier or Van Cleef, instead.

or take in an industry show. Even if one dislikes ‘traditional’ gold
diamond jewelry there is something magical about handling a truly
great piece, like something from Henry Dunay’s Sabi Collection. Or
Oscar Heyman. Bondanza. But you won’t find them at the mall. And they
hardly are repetitious. Web-pictures aren’t enough. Find the Couture
section. Be brave. Be amazed. Be humbled.

Then go out and be inspired.

Because every single one of them once asked the question…“My
solder won’t flow, what’s wrong?”

I don’t think the referred to comment was sour grapes. Just unaware.
Unexposed. There is an exciting jewelry world not found in malls or
craft fairs or Tiffany for that matter… In fact, that is where the
creative action really is.

45 
I truly aspire to get to the level that you are at, but I have not
paid my due as of yet.

Ah shucks, Ken…Looks like you’re doing pretty good to me…

There’s another post today that addresses the real point of it all,
but I’ll say it outright for those who could use some inspiration.

That being that I am highly trained, and I know how to do
everything. That’s not a statement of excess or a big head. People
like Ken and many others are trying to figure it out - there’s a
certain adventure and challenge to that, to be sure. Eventually
comes a time when you know how to do it, you’ve got it figured out,
and that’s when the fun starts. I have clawed and scraped my way to
what I would consider a mid-range level of craftsmanship and
ability, and now I work at a prettty high level, I guess. That is
quite simply because I know how - I’m not guessing, I don’t agonize
over what step to do next, I just go bing, bang, bing and it’s done.
That may seem routine (sometimes it is, for all of us), but what it
means is the freedom to work, and do that with confidence,
efficiency and success. Many people here have that level of
confidence - maybe they are making silver and agate jewelry, but
they are good at it, which is what counts… It’s not diamonds vs
agates, it’s the ability to make beautiful things and frankly make a
living at it, which means making saleable jewelry and having people
line up to buy it. These things come with time and practice and
learning.

Also, Joni Mitchell had a song called “For Free” about drivng by a
street musician in her limo and being nostalgic about the good old
days, music for music’s sake - no entourage, no headaches - “He was
playing real good…for free”. And one painter said once, “Paint
for yourself as long as you can, because as soon as you start
selling, market forces will change you forever”. For the hobbyists
and casual workers - have fun!!! It is fun, and it can stay that way
if it’s what you want from it. Learning more makes it easier and
better, but not everybody needs to be Faberge…

46 
There are probably a few prodigies who can jump into the market
using  high end materials, but most of us need more work on one or
more of the above before reaching that level.

To imply that a beginner should start out by using copper (or is
that me reading far too much between the lines?), actually devalues
what artists are doing with copper.

I decided that I wanted to work in silver and then later in gold and
so when I started to make jewellery last year, I started in sterling
silver, to learn how that metal behaves. I saw it as completely
pointless to start in copper because that would not teach me how
silver worked. Any disasters can be recycled in any case, so it is
not wasted.

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com

47 
I want to make silver and gold jewellery. Not the stuff you get at
the mall store, as that is boring. My point is ya got ta pay your
dues if you wanna sing the blues. Your designs will improve as your
skills improve. Don't discount the boring stuff, its how you learn.

I admire you and your point of view Neil, especially the fact that
you are self-taught, as am I. I would get a job in a jeweller’s store
to do the boring stuff (and therefore pay my dues) in a heartbeat if
my health were up to it but I have to do what I do from home. So I’m
paying my dues by teaching myself and making my designs. My
jewellery is getting lots of attention and praise and I feel that I’m
coming close to finding the right place in the market for me.

I will hopefully, at some point, stop feeling the need to defend
what I’m doing or saying.

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com

48 
Today copper is $2.90 a pound - that is reality. Today platinum is
$1001 an ounce - that is reality. For the price of a pound of
copper, you can buy a piece of platinum about the size of a grain
of rice (or less) - that is reality. Then you factor in the
oxidation of copper, the general dirtiness of it, turning skin
green, the taste in the mouth, and contrast that with gold and
platinum, which have none of the above.

Thank you John. You’ve summed up my view on the public’s perception
of copper jewellery in a nutshell. I don’t have the experience
behind me yet to be able to defend my choice of metal with that
clarity - but what you’ve said is exactly what I meant when I
mentioned its “perceived cheapness”.

I chose to use silver and gold based on the fact that that’s what I
like to wear. I personally do not wish to wear anything that will
make my skin turn green, regardless of what patinas you can put on
it. My big interest in making jewellery is in the gemstones and I
try to set them in a way to show off their beauty so I’m not really
into patinas anyway. I rarely do all metal pieces, but when I do, I
use texture as the decoration. For me, silver and gold rule - but
that’s just my point of view based on what I wear and what I make.
Other people are welcome to make and wear copper. We’re all
different.

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com

49

There is an exciting jewelry world not found in malls or craft fairs
or Tiffany for that matter… In fact, that is where the creative
action really is.

Yeah, Neil - I figured the trade shows were too complicated for most
to get to. I would point out www.baselworld.com again, though it is
difficult to navigate. THE premiere jewelry show of the world. Those
who would want a primer on high-level goldsmithing could do worse
than to flip through Alan’s latest, too:

http://www.revereacademy.com/booksandvideos/bandvdescription.html

LOTS of stuff out there, if one acually looks…

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com

50

There are many levels of Jewelry buyers, from the young Marines
walking through the Mall and stopping and shopping at the Mall
Jewelers. there they are offered, “Diamonds, rubies, etc” at very
reasonable prices, and tolerant terms. they leave there with a smile
on their face, and a gift for the girlfriend or mother. They are
happy, the store is happy, the commissioned salesperson is happy.
Ditto at Walmart, not sure about commission there, and John, also at
Costco. Those stores meet the needs of their customers.

Me, I was taught by my mother to never buy anything that did not
have value, hence first Silver and then Gold. I know the works of the
Jewelers mentioned by John Donivan, and respect them one and all.

I had the ability to travel the World for some 40 years, and came to
know, love and respect Jewelry made by the hands of the people in
the various quadrants of the world. I was looking through some of
those that I bought. The names may not be known, the work is fine,
beautiful, and unique.

In front of me I have an Israeli Silver Ring with a Coral Stone.
Expensive, no, exquisite yes. There is a Puzzle Ring of 14 links of
Sterling Silver made by Jose Grant, a man now in his 90’s, a former
TWA Pilot, who first saw them in Egypt, and saw a challenge to make
them.

I have a beautiful Petit Point Mosaic Necklace from Italy, I love
it.

In Chile I bought a couple of constructed Copper neck pieces, almost
breast plates. Intricate, carefully constructed, and rather unique.

None of these, and I have many more, were very expensive, yet they
have value. We must not devalue the talents of the peoples or a
culture, with the idea that only Platinum or Pure Gold, made by a
known Artisan, have any value at all.

This has become something of an elitist thread, and I do not think
that is what it was meant to be. IMHO.

I treasure the Native American Squash Neckpieces I have, and I
waited maybe 30 years after seeing the first one to be able to buy
one. Life interfered.

Don’t squash the creativity, that is what counts, not necessarily
the value of the metal used. The point is missed.

Museums show how much was done without the incredible tools of
today. The message is the Artist, not necessarily the value of the
materials.

Hugs,
Terrie

51 
Helen wrote: I saw it as completely pointless to start in copper
because that would not teach me how silver worked.

Yes, this is partially true but also partially not true. This is
perhaps like saying that eating raspberry preserves would not give us
any useful about what it is like to eat preserves of a
different berry.

Working with copper as a practice metal allows one to learn a great
deal about how nonferrous and precious metals work in general. If
the point is learning about working with metal, this is a very
constructive and also affordable material with which we can learn
about the processes we use in goldsmithing; heating, annealing, work
hardening, forging, forming, bending, swaging, sawing, milling,
drawing, etc.

We don’t have to make jewelry from copper but it is a great material
to learn from and to explore with. My workshops all utilize copper to
some degree for sketches and for practical exercises focusing on
technique development and skill refinement. So do the classes of many
other instructors. Few people learn the basics of fold forming and
other forms of metal manipulation by starting out with precious
metal.

Then again when I was entirely self taught, during the first dozen
or so years at the bench before formal training, I never worked with
copper either. More recently, in the development of my curriculum, I
have arrived at a new depth of appreciation for the beauty of this
metal as a working medium and the value of it as a learning
material.

I guess that old adage about learning new tricks proves true after
all.

Michael David Sturlin

52 
My jewellery is getting lots of attention and praise and I feel
that I'm coming close to finding the right place in the market for
me.

I told this to Helen privately, too, but I don’t mind putting it
here, too. She’s doing real good - IMO better than some who have
much more schooling…

53 
To imply that a beginner should start out by using copper (or is
that me reading far too much between the lines?), actually
devalues what artists are doing with copper.

Yep. Reading too much into it. I am implying that gold and platinum
are too expensive for a beginner to start with. Obviously, it is
better to start your practice skills using a less expensive metal.
Any instructors out there having people learn how to saw or solder
using gold? I don’t know about you, but my beginning instructor (and
anyone I have ever heard of) taught how to use a jeweler’s saw and
how to solder using copper. After that, it was up to the student to
decide if they wanted to do projects in copper, brass, or silver. I
doubt that anyone even considered doing a beginning project in gold,
far less platinum!

After some skill is gained, then it makes sense to move to other
metals (if desired). But, if your skills are not great and you intend
to make stuff for sale rather than as gifts for Mom or Aunt Millie,
you might have difficulty selling your not-so-great work at gold
prices. Then you have some very expensive, but un-saleable inventory.
Mediocre pieces made of silver, copper, or brass might or might not
sell depending on how you price them, but you won’t have bankrupted
yourself in creating them.

All I am saying is that you should match your skill level, budget
level, and the level you aspire to achieve to the medium you choose.

Of course, if you are the guy with the gold toilet, maybe you do
start practicing with gold and platinum as your material costs for
learning won’t bother you.

Mary Ellin D’Agostino, PhD
www.medacreations.com
Sr. Teacher, PMC Connection
Certified Artisan, PMC Guild

54

Eye candy

LOTS of stuff out there, if one acually looks…

I compiled a list of some of my favourite artists for an “Eye Candy”
topic on another forum. Here it is, including quite a few Orchid
members:

http://www.goldcrochet.com/gallery.shtml
http://www.michaeldavidsturlin.com/
http://www.toddreed.com/OCring.cfm

http://www.petraclass.net

http://www.bellebrooke.net
http://www.aaronmacsai.com
http://www.bethmcelhiney.com

http://www.buccellati.com
http://www.vancleef-arpels.com

http://www.celtarts.com/Rings/frame_rings.htm
http://www.hollygage.com/pages/jewelry_necklaces.html
http://www.alohilanidesigns.com/lune-topaz-earrings.html
http://www.abrasha.com/slideshow/rings/rings.htm

There are many, many others of course (including lots of other
Orchid members whose work I love but I can’t remember them all off
the top of my head). I love to trawl the internet for beautiful
jewellery. Enjoy your trip through jewellery heaven!

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk

55 
This has become something of an elitist thread, and I do not think
that is what it was meant to be. IMHO.

I don’t think this is the case. Many people have talked about what
metal they like to work in. People at both ends of the scale have
found the need to be a little defensive over their choice of metal.
But basically, we’re all saying the same thing. We all like
different things and anyone is welcome to make/buy/wear jewellery
made of whatever metal they like.

I have found though, that some of those who work in copper seem to
“disapprove” of anyone who starts out using any metal of higher
value, suggesting (and in some cases saying outright) that beginners
should “pay their dues” first before moving on to more valuable
metals. Why does it matter to some that people like myself chose to
start learning by making things in sterling silver as opposed to
copper? I shouldn’t matter. I like silver, I wear silver, I make in
silver.

I’m getting too repetitive now so I’ll probably leave this thread to
others.

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com

56 
I told this to Helen privately, too, but I don't mind putting it
here, too. She's doing real good - IMO better than some who have
much more schooling..

Thank you VERY much John - that is lovely of you to say. Orchid is
my school - the advice and made available to us all is
absolutely invaluable.

Helen
UK

57

Helen:

I compiled a list of some of my favourite artists for an "Eye
Candy" topic on another forum. Here it is, including quite a few
Orchid members:

Thanks: What a fun list of things to look at - awe inspiring. And I
loved the different approaches - something for everyone. Probably my
very favorite was Aaron Macsai - just unbelievably beautiful.

Kay, who would aspire to this level of competency if I had another
25 years to do this, but at 77 I can only hope to accomplish a tiny
bit of it.

58 
I am implying that gold and platinum are too expensive for a
beginner to start with.

A few of the people contributing to this thread talk about one
extreme vs the other, ie using copper as opposed to gold or
platinum. Many are completely missing my point - that it is entirely
practical and affordable to start in SILVER! Silver doesn’t cost much
more than copper. It is very affordable and very easy to get hold of.
In fact, I can get sterling silver from approximately ten different
vendors in the UK, whereas I’ve not found many companies who sell
copper sheet, wire and solder (although I’ve not looked extensively).

I am NOT decrying the use of copper or the lovely jewellery that
people make using it, or the people who want to buy it. Some people
like copper, some like silver, some yellow gold, some white gold,
others platinum, titanium, stainless steel, palladium, costume
jewellery made of base metals. Each to his/her own. It is just my
personal taste, experience, preference that I am talking about. I’m
not handing out advice to any beginners, that they should start out
in any other metal than the one they choose to start with.

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com

59

Hey everybody… time out. I feel partly responsible for this as I
responded, by thinking out loud, to a post about patination of
copper and achieving various colors (colours) to a rather innocent
post. It has been fascinating, and unnerving at times, to watch the
reactions since. I would never put anyone down for the choice nor
style of their work. I am, and will probably always be a rank amateur
in the realm of these postings. I have learned an awful lot from
Orchid, and hope some day to be able to “contribute” my share to its
growth and on-going development. There are so many of you out there
that I would love to sit down and watch work, or pick your brains
about why or how… I get this by “tuning” in everyday to "my"
Orchid.

I have felt at times ( and I am taking ownership) that maybe I
should not have piped in, but feelings are feelings, and I felt the
need for expression at the moment. What brought me here, and
continues to bring me back religiously each day, is the intelligence,
the wit, and the openness of this forum. I have a resource available
to me that is nonpareil in my world. I crave the dialog and exchange
offered up here and my hope is that “rank” amateurs such as my self
are not made to feel out of place for chiming in.

I have found a world in metal that I never thought could exist. I
used to think of metal as “cold”, “uncaring” and unfriendly. I am
discovering a world that I will never in this lifetime get to know
intimately, let alone master. Please be “gentle” with us rookies or
"odd-balls" that get hung up in a domain, as hopefully it is
temporary, and only a stepping stone along the path. I wish that I
could meet you all, watch you work, pick your brains, and have a
beer with you at the end of the day. My only recourse is to tune in
daily and pick up what fits at the moment, and hopefully remember
where I saw the rest for future reference.

I may never be a Alan Revere, John Donovan, or Charles Lewton-Brain,
but I can aspire. If you take that away from me (us) it gets to be a
bleak existence and I’ve seen enough of that in my lifetime to last
the rest of it. Keep the door of communication open, for we never
know where or when the next “Mohammed Ali” may come from. This is my
humble thought and opinion and I do love you all for
what you do. peace.

60

I simply want to point out, if someone wants to experiment with
filigree, copper is the best material to start with. Copper is very
difficult to melt, so the beginner does not have to worry too much
about melting wires while soldering.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com