Hi Kay,
Yes, Aaron Macsai is one of my favourites too! His jewellery is
awesome indeed.
Helen
UK
There’s a good reason to start in silver, well, after the first few
shots at it anyway. I believe one tends to come up to the materials
simply because you have more invested. The stakes are a little
higher. Use copper if copper is the goal. Copper has a look that no
other metal has. Its earthy. Use silver if silver is the goal. And
so on. But it might be smart to keep things in context. One could
have the idea to set a nice diamond in copper but is there a buyer
for it? You could set beach glass in platinum but who’s gonna pay
you thousands for glass, no matter how great it turns out? You make
the big money (relative of course) by selling the materials at a
markup with the added value of a stylish wearable piece that speaks
to the customer. Your input at the bench becomes the reason to buy
from you instead of your competition. Your work is the vehicle for
the sale. Everything being equal, there is more bottom line in
platinum over gold and gold over silver and on and on. The question
becomes about your volume. Can you make and successfully market
1,000 inexpensive things or are you better served by making 100
pricier things? It could go either way, depending. You should keep
your customer in mind because that’s who you need to please to make
the money. The customers’ expectations are that the workmanship and
design are indeed commensurate with the materials. So if your goal
is a professional career with monetary rewards look at what is
saleable for you. If its copper, its copper. If its gold its gold.
But it should be right for You, in addition to the client.
We don't have to make jewelry from copper but it is a great material to learn from and to explore with.
No, Theresa, It’s not elitist, it’s the realities of the jewelry
business. Someone living in mid-England is going to have a tough
time sellng copper jewelry, not that it can’t be done. And if they
should succeed they won’t be buying any new cars off it.
I use copper and brass all the time in the shop. I make templates,
mockups, temporary structures, tools where it’s appropriate. You can
make simple models out of it, too, though you’ll get a dirty
vulcanized mold from it. Perfectly fine metals - it’s just a fact
that the buying public doesn’t like them much for jewelry, for
reasons that have been mentioned. For practice/students it doesn’t
take too long before the differences between copper and silver rear
their heads but it’s good for a start.
I simply want to point out, if someone wants to experiment with filigree, copper is the best material to start with. Copper is very difficult to melt, so the beginner does not have to worry too much about melting wires while soldering.
On the other hand, if one uses silver, then melting the odd wire
teaches good torch control, until the point where you can solder
without melting anything (apart from the solder of course). Not a
recommendation or instruction, just an opinion.
Helen
UK
I have felt at times ( and I am taking ownership) that maybe I should not have piped in, but feelings are feelings, and I felt the need for expression at the moment.
Michael, don’t you dare stop piping in - Orchid is for everyone.
Yours is a good opening for what I had in mind anyway. First off, and
least important, is the thought that this became “an elitist thread”,
which I already said something about. I think the danger is, and much
closer to the truth is, that it was in danger of becoming an
“anti-elitist” thread. Meaning that somehow there is some inherent
virtue in working with humble, dare-we-say cheap materials. That’s
simply no more true than if I were to say the opposite. Prejudice is
prejudice. I could make a list a long as my arm of the materials I’ve
worked in, beginning with clay and wood. That’s not the point.
What the real point is, and I almost quoted Neil here because he put
it quite well, is the question the topic asks - lots of people will
buy copper in all sorts of forms, but can you make a living at it?
Of course, many can. I looked at one copper-friendly poster’s work
on this thread - I think I remember who, but I don’t want to be
personal about it, anyway. It was really, really nice work - I was
very impressed. The pieces were listed at $15-$20, that I saw. Fine
and dandy. That means that in order to make $20,000, you need to not
just make 1000 pieces a year, you also need to sell 1000 pieces.
That’s about 3/day, every day. Simple arithmetic, nothing to argue
about. What I was struck by was how nice the work really was, and
how if it were only made in silver they would likely fly off the
shelves at $50-$75, but nobody asked my advise…Double the pay,
half the work, whichever way you like to look at it.
I assume, here on a vast public forum, that people are interested in
selling their work, if not for a living then at least for the
satisfaction it brings and/or because selling one piece finances
three more pieces. I know there are some who are outside of that,
but I’ll wager it’s not very many. The relative values of metals
(value, not price) are well and widely known. The reasons for that
(no tarnish, strength, rarity, people just like it more, etc) are
well and widely known. I really don’t see any reason to turn that
into some sort of dispute, unless one has some agenda or is trying
to promote a product. The fact that copper has it’s place in jewelry
has been nailed down long ago. Trying to suggest that the jewelry
world at large is somehow missing something or could be making a
viable living off of it is, IMO, not on the mark by any means. The
hierarchy of metals in the marketplace is not made by the sellers,
it’s made by the buyers.
Every metal is different. You have to learn how to work each by
practising with that particular metal (species, alloy, colour, karat
etc). No way to learn platinum work with copper for practice.
Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
I looked at one copper-friendly poster's work on this thread - I think I remember who, but I don't want to be personal about it, anyway. It was really, really nice work - I was very impressed. The pieces were listed at $15-$20, that I saw. Fine and dandy. That means that in order to make $20,000, you need to not just make 1000 pieces a year, you also need to sell 1000 pieces. That's about 3/day, every day. Simple arithmetic, nothing to argue about. What I was struck by was how nice the work really was, and how if it were only made in silver they would likely fly off the shelves at $50-$75
You know, that’s the funny thing: One of the lines I make is a simple
series of hairsticks and hairforks in copper, they run in the range
of $10 to $20. Despite being nothing more than twisted square copper
wire with a shape, they’re one of my best selling things. I’ve sent
them to Poland and the UK to women who were willing to pay nearly the
item’s value in shipping. I’ve tried doing them in silver. Exact same
thing, same shape, just silver. Priced them in the $30 to $40 range,
after doing some weight/price calculations. Sat on the silver ones
for a year and gave them as Christmas gifts because I was tired of
looking at them and didn’t have time to go shopping.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it’s never a sure thing. I’m just
glad I still make and sell the copper version.
Lindsay
1 Like
Every metal is different. You have to learn how to work each by practising with that particular metal (species, alloy, colour, karat etc). No way to learn platinum work with copper for practice.
Hmm. I wouldn’t use Platinum to teach a student how to do pierced
designs with a jewelers saw. Would you hand a brand new student a
sheet of platinum and a saw to start with? (Mind you, I said brand
new. No training at all.)
Lindsay
Lindsay and all you great Orchidians
I don’t post too often, but be assured I read you every day. Proud
to let you know we have a [Orchid] blog here now. To teach some one
who is a beginner how to pierce and train them to work with Platinum,
Copper is the ideal solution. Copper wants to grab the saw blade the
way Platinum does. I can and should be burnished and overall has
many properties that simulate platinum just like a Moissonite
simulates a Diamond. So as an inexpensive training alternative it is
great. Just teach them to keep the tray clean and use the file
exclusively for copper…just as you would use it exclusively for
Platinum. This teaches good house keeping methods.
If anyone has questions regarding platinum, feel free to contact me
through our website Platinumguild.com
Jurgen J. Maerz
DJ, my brother,
let’s approach this discussion from another prospective
As you know i teach entry level and intermediate metal arts at the
Sharon Art Studio. in Golden gate Park, SF I am contracted to do an
identical program at the Richmond Art Center, located in Richmond
CA. As the two programs are community sponsored,our fees have to be
affordable to include a broad demographic of individuals.
Let’s "CU’ up this dialog as it relates to an adult education program
over the years, silver has always been affordable, Copper was an
even more cost officiant possibility Great for objects that don’t
come into content w/ the skin…Don’t get me started on copper
bracelets for arthritis,intentional green pigmenting of the skin is
another story… i digress…Can’t beat CU for it’s properties for
patination.
The recent skyrocketing costs of ALL metals is affecting peoples
ability to afford our classes. Both art centers are non profit,non
accredited adult ed program…
The classes that we offer are core- foundation… Students often take
our classes, with the intention of matriculating to an advanced
teaching facility. My classes are comprehensive. The bonus of the
ten week experience is developing an appreciation of what goes into
working with the concepts and materials…
As far as high end uses of CU research some of the folks enameling
on copper. In our area June Schwarcz is a stellar example of enamel
applications. on copper. Junes’ work is collected throughout the
world. Not bad for a gal who is in her nineties…
Years ago KEN CORY was, one of the second generation artists who
worked with Ramona Solberg in Seattle, WA… After Ken return rd to
Tacoma.He,created an eclectic body of work using copper as well as
the full spectrum of other metals.Other materials were also
incorporated,.Lost objects,found objects… While on the subject of
Ken Cory’s work, you might want to investigate Nancy Warden, Kiff
Slemmons., J Fred Woell,…
Ken Cory’s and his work will be remembered for ages to come. His
work was immaculately conceived and crafted. The work also possessed
a wicked sense of humor.
For 98.6 % applicationsns, copper isn’t the metal of choice for the
those working in FINE JEWELRY. Susan Cummins gave a thought
provoking lecture at the Academy of Art a few years ago… There is
renegadede group of “schmucks”,who trained and studied in Pforzheim,
Germany Considerng their outsider status,i wouldn’t hesitateat to
venture that copper could work if the piece called for it…
A number of years ago I had the privilegege to work for a small,
family owned local manufacturing jewelery factory. Even though I was
there for a short period of time,the experience was invaluable. Both
gold as well as silver were used for creating prototypes… Their
line incorporates hands on applications… very high end, using
gold. platinum, exquisite precious stones…You have to be good to
manufacture for Hank Winston.
Copper was soldereded onto the inside jaws of pliers, preventing the
steel fromarringng the work…
It’s a possibility that if a crow had to decide between conveying an
equal amount of aluminumum or,gold to fly back to the nest, chances
are that aluminumum would be the metal of choice.
om shalom
the next year can only get better
aloha…
rp leaf
Sorry I’m way behind in my orchid listing reading… so this reply’s
probably way to late.
I have a couple jewelry shops on Etsy, and it’s definitely a
learning experience…
-
Pple value gemstones far far more than mere glass (or in your
case paper). I have a shop that sells glass czech glass + swarovski
crystal bead jewelry, and another that sells gemstone jewelry and
the gemstones get all the attention. -
Pple value gemstones far more than your labour. Things that take
a lot of labour to create but don’t have gemstones are a tougher
sell. There’s some lovely seedbead jewelry on Etsy… but it doesn’t
sell nearly as well as the gemstone jewelry. -
Photos are extremely important… I’ve redone mine many times in
an effort to make them better. When they do get better I definitely
notice more traffic and sales… when I screw up and they get
crappier, I get less traffic! -
Ever since the US elections went crazy in early September, and
then the economy took a nosedive, Etsy has been very very slow. This
week, has been the slowest… coincidentallyj (or not), the market
has been crashing rather spectacularly. Pple with established
customers seem to be doing pretty well… but it’s a tough time to
be breaking into the market.
With regards to (1) and (2) above… non-gemstone jewelry sells. …
but I think you really need to work at it. I’m not sure that the
average customer visiting Etsy would be your type of customer. Have
you considered places that sell “art”, like galleries"
That said, I really appreciate Etsy… great place to get a ‘feel’
for the whole jewelry selling thing!
Rita.
www.FirelilyJewelry.com
i just wanted to add something, not sure if i found zee galiano in
orchid pics, think i did, anyway the rectangular copper pendants
that i saw of hers/his, are totally beautiful, and do not bow to
silver in any way!!!, dave
Hi Dave,
I looked for Zee Galiano pictures but didn’t find any on Ganoksin or
using a web search. I work in copper often and would like to see
what others are doing.
Bobbie Horn
Brownfield, TX
This is her website:
http://zeegalliano.com/Home_Page.html
Her surname has two "L"s. She does do some lovely copper pieces but
always seems to frame them in silver, making the copper act like a
cabochon. In that instance, using silver would lose the impact of
the piece, but then so would using all copper. The framing and
setting in silver adds a lovely contrast. This subject was about
using copper as opposed to silver or gold. Nobody ever said that
there are no artists out there doing good things with copper.
Helen
UK
If you’ve never had cupritis lustitis (heavy desire for things made
of copper)… just googlet Valentin Yotkov’s work.
Unfortunately he doesn’t seem to have a gallery on the orchid forum.
His website, however, shows beautiful work.
steve
Many thanks to Dave for the “out-of-the-blue” compliments re my work.
What a nice way to start off my day! And thank you Helen for your
kind words and for correcting the spelling of my name. This all lets
me know that I should register another domain name with the one “L”
version - since that’s also a common spelling.
I’m really enjoying the silver-framed series at the moment. LOS does
lovely things to copper - such luscious, warm colors! What’s the
market for copper like? Too soon to tell. I’ve had some success at
the local level, and am working out how to expand nationally. I’m no
“metal snob,” neither for nor against using any particular metal.
Bill Wismar of MetalBenders Gallery even nudged me into trying gold
and I’m certainly learning to love the contrast of 22k with silver!
But I’ll have to see more sales of those pieces before I can justify
the financial investment. In the meantime, I’ll happily continue
exploring copper.
zee
www.zeegalliano.com
jewelry designs in metal
Hello all you copper lovers,
I would just like to give my two cents worth on using copper. I make
mostly silver jewelry, but have been using some copper with the
silver since the price of silver skyrocketed. I don’t like to use
the virgin copper color since I think some people think “cheap” when
they see that color. But I have found a wonderful patina called
"Antique Patina for copper based alloys" from Reactive Metals. I am
just a satisfied customer, no affiliation.
When you use this patina you get a beautiful chocolaty brown color.
I like it better than using Liver of Sulphur. I have included a
photo of a piece that has a copper bottom that I sandblasted then
used the Antique Patina on and then used Renissance wax over it to
keep the color. I hope it comes through since I have not tried this
before on Ganoksin. The sandblasted copper looked like brown velvet
when I finished and the color seems to be very stable. Anyway I just
wanted to pass this along in case anyone would like to try it.
Thanks to all of you who have taught me so much on this forum.
Lona Northener
Attachment Removed
Oh jeez, a tangent on a tangent. I should leave a trail of crumbs.
I think we’re still with you, Neil 
Or maybe it’s just my ADD - if it weren’t for tangents, I’d get
nowhere at all.
Pam Chott
www.songofthephoenix.com