How much does your gas supplier charge you for delivery? (No, you
don’t have to answer, but you might want to think about it, and how
that answer might affect “why would he give you incorrect
”.)
Please cite the law that says I am a person required to be governed under this regulation
For the most part, US DOT regulations apply to all sized business
entities from Avon ladies transporting cosmetics to Class-8
commercial trucks because the statutes (passed by congress) don’t
differentiate. Where the exceptions occur:
-
When the DOT writes regulations on how they will enforce the
statutes, they have occasionally made exemptions. This is seldom done
since that means they are changing the statutes that were passed by
Congress and putting those changes IN WRITING (not something that
bureaucrats like to do). -
More typically the DOT has chosen not to enforce regulations in
certain cases (including in certain cases for small entities). The
statutes and regulations still exist, they are just enforcing them
selectively. As a result, proceed at your own caution.
Check out this DOT webpage
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/1kl
What is the difference between a car interior or a shop? Wherever the gas bottle is, it must not be leaking. If you do smell gas, in a car or in a shop, you do not make a spark. The car was never the issue here.
Really? Car has small enclosed space. My shop is quite large and it
would be hard to get enough of a concentration of gas that could
ignite.
On American Chopper, they put balloons filled with acetylene and
oxygen inside of a car with the windows rolled up, A spark and the
car was totally destroyed by the blast.
I have transported acetylene in a car with all the windows rolled
dow= n, ignoring the pictures on the wall of the welding supply of
autos destroyed by acetylene blasts. I doubt I will do so again, I
just paid someone today to use their truck to exchange oxygen and
acetylene tanks, I could not wait for a delivery by the company,
kiln was at temp for casting.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
The USDOT regulations applis only to commercial transportation across state lines. Individual states have their own regulations.
It also covers all Federal roads including highways or roads being
repaired with Federal money. It can get tricky.
Yes but most states use them as the boilerplate for their own regulations.
That’s right, some do. But you can ignore the USDOT and check the
state regs. There are almost always differences. I was responding to a
blanket warning which was incorrect.
Al Balmer
Pine City, NY
The other thing I would add here, when I transported my acetylene
and oxygen last month, I specifically asked the guy if there were any
issues moving them in my car. The store owner said, “Go right home.
Remove them from your vehicle immediately and especially with the
acetylene, stand the tank up and leave in in an up-right position for
a minimum of 6 hours before attaching your hoses and lighting your
torch. He mentioned something about the inside of the tanks getting
"muddied up”? I am not any kind of expert in gases at all. Would
there also be any issues with muck from condensation build up inside
the oxygen tanks as well? If so, I think this is a good tip to know
to keep equipment from getting undue wear & dirt.
Teresa
For the most part, US DOT regulations apply to all sized business entities from Avon ladies transporting cosmetics to Class-8 commercial trucks
When transported for commerce. I don’t think the wife needs to worry
about needing a license to carry cosmetics in her purse. Neither
does anyone need hazmat signs on a travel trailer with its two
propane tanks, even if used as a base for a traveling salesman. Also,
USDOT regulation only apply to transport across state lines. Read the
reference I posted earlier. If you were carrying acetylene for resale
in the next state, that would be different.
Al Balmer
Pine City, NY
I am not any kind of expert in gases at all. Would there also be any issues with muck from condensation build up inside the oxygen tanks as well?
Besides his not so safe advise to you about transporting the tanks
he is right about the acetylene. Acetylene is unstable if pressurized
above 15 psi hence the big warning red zone on the regulator at
above 15 psi. To store the highly pressurized acetylene safely in the
tank it is dissolved in acetone and the tank is filled with a porous
ceramic material to hold the acetone and acetylene so that he
acetylene comes out of the acetone in a safe and controlled fashion.
By laying it on its side it allow the liquid acetone rather than the
gaseous acetylene to come out of the tank if not allowed to stand up
vertically for a period of time after being laid on its side which
gives the acetone time to filter back down into the ceramic pores.
Oxygen tanks do not have anything inside but gaseous oxygen so they
don’t care about their orientation.
Jim
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
What is the difference between a car interior or a shop?
I would think it’s obvious to point out that I, perhaps unusually,
don’t generally drive my shop on the freeway. We have our gas
delivered, since I guess this is a bit of a poll.
Propane cylinders in automobiles aren't ignored. They are specifically all owed. I drove a dual powered propane-gasoline automobile back in the 70's.
Well maybe back in the 70’s that was the case but, there are now
lots of regulations about the type and mounting of such tanks and
they are not your standard 5 gallon barbecue tank.
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
How much does your gas supplier charge you for delivery? (No, you don't have to answer, but you might want to think about it, and how that answer might affect "why would he give you incorrect ".)
Nothing, gas costs the same whether I pick it up ( in my truck) or
they deliver. Again anyone who thinks it is perfectly safe to
transport acetylene in your car please go right ahead, as long as
you don’t kill anyone else if it blows up no big deal. But next time
you go to the gas supplier ask to see the pictures that all seem to
have of vehicles that have been blown up from acetylene tank
explosions or just look for them on the internet and ask yourself do
you really want to be in the car when it happens.
James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
It also covers all Federal roads including highways or roads being repaired with Federal money. It can get tricky.
I suggest you read the actual regulations.
Al Balmer
Pine City, NY
For the most part, US DOT regulations apply to all sized business
When a rule or law is created there is always a definitions page in
the beginning where it explains who the rules apply to. I’ve looked
at these DOT pages a bit but can’t find the definitions section.
A link to that would be of interest.
He mentioned something about the inside of the tanks getting "muddied up"? I am not any kind of expert in gases at all. Would there also be any issues with muck from condensation build up inside the oxygen tanks as well? If so, I think this is a good tip to know to keep equipment from getting undue wear & dirt.
He probably was referring to the fact that Liquid Acetone is added to
the tank which is filled with dirt. Thus the ensuing gas is
Acetylene…if my instruction is correct. That is what makes it so
heavy. Don’t lay the tank down on it’s side…it needs to sit upright
even when transporting…so that “mud” doesn’t get into a line when
the gauge and hose is connected.
Lots of info in this thread!
RMC
To Neil A:
I have a pickup truck. There is no way to _secure_ an acetylene bottle that can fit in a car (MC or B) in a stock pickup bed. A rented pickup would not be any different. One has to build in supports and anchors specifically to hold a gas bottle. Using a seat belt inside a car or wedging the bottle in the foot well in the back seat is really poor security, but it is still more secure than in the back of a stock pickup bed in respect to preventing a 'loose canon'.
Oh, come on now…I use a rented pick-up truck from Home Depot and
secure the propane tank in the truck bed. I pack the tank in old
towels and set it inside a large bucketleavingthe tank with no wiggle
room and then I take great care to secure the bucketto the truck bed
with multiple bungy cords. My propane tank has a more comfortable
ride home than I do sitting in the cab. After I have delivered the
tank to my home, it takes very little effort to dismantle the whole
set-up.
Do you really think that people just toss their tanks in the back of
a truck and let them roll around? O.K., I concede there are a few
idiots out there, but really???
Vicki Stone
I have never had problems transporting tanks. Tie the suckers down
well. And think about flamable/explosive stuff the next time you fill
up the tank. Gasoline scares me more than bottles.
jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
I have not contributed for some time but often read the digest. I
found a gas and welding supply half a block from my house after we
moved in, and I’m disappointed that we’ll be moving in a year or so,
with that convenience being near the top of the list! I put the tank
I got from them in my car, but was still nervous just crossing the
street with it. In the future I’ll have them delivered I guess, if
they’ll bring just one small tank. This reminds me that I haven’t
done a test for leaks in awhile, too.
Diane Townsley
Remove them from your vehicle immediately and especially with the acetylene, stand the tank up and leave in in an up-right position for a minimum of 6 hours before attaching your hoses and lighting your torch. He mentioned something about the inside of the tanks getting "muddied up"?
The acetylene is dissolved in another gas (acetone?) inside the
tank. That’s the arrangement that needs to settle.
I’ve started bringing my gauge (and attached hose) to the place
where I buy acetylene (B tank) because, over the past two years, I
have twice gotten home and found the tank was not full. Then I had to
take it back and bring another one home, in my car, and I don’t enjoy
that process. So I attach my gauge to the tank before I take it home
(when I’ve gotten home the second time, the tank still registered
full, so I know it wasn’t a problem of the internal gas solution).
If anyone is still using Acetylene for anything but welding steel or
brazing auto parts then get with the program and switch to Propane.
Yes, you have to be careful with any gas, but just the fact that
using Acetylene in a shop will make your lungs look like you’ve been
a coal miner for your whole life. It’s just too dirty to bring into a
shop even with good ventilation.
Mark Gerrasch
This thread might make a metalsmith consider using natural gas
combined with a gas booster instead of compressed gas tanks.
Mark