Don't transport flammable gas in vehicle

Jewelry Discussion
61

There are three reasons that I can think of not to transport
unsecured cylinders in your passenger vehicle. One has been
discussed here, that leaking gas could turn your sealed vehicle into
a bomb. A second reason to AT LEAST secure it (NOT “laying it down
behind the seat”) is that an unsecured gas cylinder could crack open
slightly as it’s rolling gently back and forth, thus creating a leak
and possibly leading to #1. The third and best reason for securing
your cylinder (and using a truck or delivery service if available),
is that an unsecured gas cylinder (or any heavy object) is a
projectile within the confines of the vehicle if you’re ever
involved in an accident. In a pick-up, it it still a missile, but
not confined, so you have better odds of it not shooting through
your person. I once witnessed the aftermath of an unsecured lift
jack ratcheting through a passenger van - an unbelievable amount of
destructive force. Even a heavy flashlight or a fire extinguisher
shooting back and forth through your passenger compartment can be
lethal - imagine a cylinder of pressurized gas. And that’s not even
taking into account the possibility of it being breached!

As for why your gas service personnel have not addressed this with
everyone, if you die or don’t come back, what have they lost?
$30/month? My supplier has a sign posted prominently that it is
illegal to transport gas cylinders in a passenger vehicle. They
didn’t even bother to point it out whilst loading my cylinder into
my passenger vehicle. (Only once, before I knew better.) If I get
dead, they lose a customer - big deal. I stand to lose much more, so
it’s my job to know the safety and legality of what I’m doing.

At the very LEAST, pick up your cylinder last among your errands,
secure it WELL (NOT by strapping it into the front passenger seat -
airbags deploy in excess of 30 MPH - could snap the valve right
off), and drive like a paranoid person straight home, extra
vigilantly, extra cautiously.

In my opinion, transporting gas cylinders is the most dangerous part
of what we do. Maybe past experiences have biased me. I hope so.

Blessings,

Sam Kaffine

62 
Interesting that not a single supplier of acetylene has ever said
a single word to me about it. They have been kind enough to take it
to my car, made sure it was upright, not leaking, and securely held
in place. Does seem to me that IF this were illegal, they would
have said something, but for the past 25 years, I have purchased my
acetylene at any number of different suppliers (big and small) both
in Austin, Texas and in Sarasota, Fl. and nary.....

I get my oxygen from Norco here in Bend, Oregon. I don’t usually
need to get any flammable gas, because I have a G-Tec Torch Booster
hooked up to my natural gas line in my studio. However, the other day
I inquired about getting a propane tank, for taking to a friends
shop, for a class I was taking. The shop attendant asked what kind of
car I was driving, and he then informed me he would sell me the
propane but would not carry it to my car! My oxygen is delivered to
my studio, so I knew they had delivery; I just didn’t have time for
it. The attendant, Chuck, then proceeded to tell me how dangerous it
was (can’t remember if he said illegal) and that Norco was not going
to help me put it in my car at all.

As far as “believing the gas suppliers” over the posters on this
website, that’s idiotic. Some gas suppliers will take undo risks and
they assume those customers purchasing gas know what they are doing.

You should never put a canister of flammable gas in an enclosed
trunk. Just OPENING the trunk can cause a spark, igniting any leaked
gas.

If you are using oxygen and or a flammable gas in your studio it’s
your responsiblity to learn everything you can about those products.
Acetylene has a honeycomb structure inside of it, along with
(usually) acetone. There is a rule of seven with acetylene that you
should know about, too.

All gases are different, and if you use a specific gas, you should
know everything about it. The “M” tank used to be for motorbikes, the
“B” tank was for buses.

I don’t use acetylene; but if I’m going to be around such a
potentially dangerous gas, I want to know about it.

You are responsible for your own education regarding the things you
use in your studio.

Sandra b

63 
In a pick-up, it it still a missile, but not confined, so you have
better odds of it not shooting through your person

Yes, but what about the danger to others? That’s the part that
bothers me, with a tank that is essentially not bolted down (chained
down high and low…). If someone runs a red light and broadsides you
they may effectively hit a home run with that tank. Some of us seem
to worry more about one thing than another, gas leak inside a car,
versus projectile in an accident. Maybe it is better to dot all 'i’s
and cross all 't’s, and maybe it is best to beat the odds, which most
of us seem to do.

As was said in other posts, professionally piped natural gas can’t
be beat. I would do that and add an oxygen generator, if I could.
Having your car’s gas tank filled is more dangerous. I was filling my
car once with a child inside and a geezer in a monsterous motorhome
almost plowed into my car - he woke up just in time to slam on the
brakes. Another time someone was lighting up a smoke at the pump. You
fill your car a lot more often than you get a brazing tank, and you
are surrounded by more idiots, to boot.

Know what you are doing and do_it_right, you won’t be in an
‘interesting’ picture.

Neil A.

64 
If anyone is still using Acetylene for anything but welding steel
or brazing auto parts then get with the program and switch to
Propane.

I use both.

If you’ll learn how to properly start an acetylene torch you’ll never
see soot.

65 
I pack the tank in old towels and set it inside a large
bucketleavingthe tank with no wiggle room and then I take great
care to secure the bucketto the truck bed with multiple bungy
cords.

If you think bungee cords will hold that securely in an
accident…must be some bungee cords… They are just rubber bands,
you know? Wow.

66 
If you are using oxygen and or a flammable gas in your studio it's
your responsiblity to learn everything you can about those
products.

That is very true. That’s why, when this was mentioned, the first
thing I did was spend an hour trying to find any law that I could
that mentioned transporting it in my car. I couldn’t find one, and
I’m very good at internet research. So I asked for a cite, and I
haven’t seen one that applies to me yet.

I’m not advocating taking any unnecessary risks. I think we all
understand the damage that can be done by any flammable gas in the
car. I just want actual not “somebody told me” stuff
that can’t be substantiated.

67

Regarding propane vs. acetylene -

I have always used acetylene because this is what I learned in
school, but never explored propane. I use my tank infrequently right
now, as I’m just getting back into metalwork, and frankly I’m still
a little afraid of it. It’s been sitting in my basement for probably
seven years, mostly idle. I bleed the hose after use, and it’s
securely upright, but that’s about the extent of the attention I
give it, and I need to at least do a leak test pronto. Should I be
worried about having this in my house? Is there a safer option?

Just wondering about the benefits of propane for soldering, etc. I
don’t have a dedicated ventilation system yet, just a respirator, and
of course I’m concerned about fumes and dusts in the shop, having
watched my metals professor experience a drawn-out, difficult dying
process related to lung disease, likely occupational from exposures
in the shop, so when “coal miner’s lungs” was mentioned, I took
note.

68 
Regarding propane vs. acetylene -

You can’t solder platinum with acetylene.

69

You can’t solder platinum with acetylene. Actually at the risk of
starting another one of those NO you Cant ! YES you CAN ! childish
back and forth taunts, I do it all the time AND to further make
people nuts, I size platinum rings ( and any other ring ) up all
the time with the following method. To avoid solder lines on platinum
shanks I fuze small lumps of platinum into the gap. With the size a
1/4 size - 1/2 size too small I add enough metal to avoid thinning
the original shank then hammer the joint on the ring mandrel to try
and make it split and crack to test the quality of the joint. Many of
you are going to scoff at this and think I am lying but I do it and
it works just fine the way I do it. The condition to using
acetelyneis in the adjustment of the flame it has to be an extremly
oxidizing flame. - goo

70 
You can't solder platinum with acetylene. Actually at the risk of
starting another one of those NO you Cant ! YES you CAN !

The only reason not to use acetylene with platinum is that if the
flame is not oxidizing, there will be more free carbon in the flame
than with other fuel gasses. That can lead to contamination issues
with the platinum, which can make it brittle and essentially
unworkable scrap. But so long as the flame is oxidizing (hissing and
sharp), and you are careful not to get the flame so close that you’re
using the inner cone where combustion is not yet complete in contact
with the metal, then acetylene and oxygen works quite well with
platinum. It is, however, a risk that you then need to be aware of,
and work to avoid.

By the way, I once read (I think in one of the Rio symposium papers,
years ago) that the mechanism of “carbon contamination” with platinum
was that carbon, at platinum soldering or melting temperatures, is an
exceptionally effective reducing agent, capable, at those temps, of
reducing silicon dioxide or other silicates, back to silicon metal.
Given the abundance of silicates around us (quartz in house dust,
fluxes, polishing compounds, soldering equipment, etc, the chance of
there being traces of silicates on your platinum is often fairly
high, and if this then is reduced to silicon metal, that metal is
what then contaminates the platinum. This explanation makes sense to
me, as it would help explain the quirky nature of “carbon
contamination”, where sometimes it’s disastrous, and other times,
doesn’t seem to happen. But I don’t really know if this is always the
case, ie whether carbon itself can contaminate the platinum. Carbon,
after all, does drastically change the nature of iron, with which is
mixes, and platinum is in the same area of the periodic table… But
with the likelihood or possibility of this being the explanation for
carbon contamination of platinum, it underscores the necessity to be
sure the platinum is completely clean before you heat it. No traces
of casting investment or fluxes or the like allowed on the metal. Do
that, and pay attention to your flame adjustments, and oxy-acetylene
will work just fine with platinum. The Smith Little torch in
particular, which is often set up for use with acetylene, is quite
useful this way. Be sure, of course, to use proper eye protection
both to protect your eyes, and so you can see what you’re doing…

Peter

71

people -

missed out on the first few (as well as subsequent) installments of
this thread - by now it’s probably unraveled - my orchid digest has
repeatedly been side-tracked by some unknown grinch-like editor with
serious mental problems - frequently all i get is:

[The message and any attached files have been turned into a ZIP
attachment. Once downloaded and unzipped, open it with a word
processor or text editor for reading.]

(the problem is not with orchid - but has anyone ever gotten AOL to
solve an AOL caused problem?)

anyway, back to the "Don’t transport flammable gas in vehicle "
issue - which side of a divided highway should i walk while carrying
my tanks to be refilled?

awaiting enlightenment -
ive

  • do i strap them to the top of my van?
  • UPS?
  • USPS?
72

Hi Ive,

The advice I was given at the welding supply company was

  1. Roll down at least two opposite windows in the car.

  2. Then either strap tank into seat belt or WEDGE behind seat (to
    keep it upright)on floor of car.

  3. Do not use key-fob to unlock doors or any remote feature while
    tank is in car (sparks & fumes don’t play well together). Repeat for
    ride home.

Does anyone have advice on storage of tanks, specifically should
they be full or empty? I store an acetylene tank for a artist who
does the Florida circuit in the winter. I keep the tank in my
garage. I also have two cars in the garage and natural gas hot water
tank, gas heat, electric A/C, several dive tanks (yes, I have one of
those have a seal failure while it was full), as well as an
oxygen/acetylene tank set-up for the Smith mini-torch. The pilot
light for the hot water is on all the time, the heat is only during
the really cold months.

I have available a storage room with all concrete walls (like a
walk-in-closet from the outside) that was intended for pool chemical
storage, but we never built the pool. It has no ventilation, other
than attic access in ceiling and the door faces the setting sun in
Largo, Florida (near Clearwater)- similar weather to Miami.

Where would be the best place to store the unused tank?

Thanks,
Jean Marie