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Anti-flux choices


#1

Hi everyone, I’ve heard that white correction fluid can be used as
an anti-flux. I’m looking for any input as to the safety of using
this vs. yellow ocher or commercially bought anti-flux. Thanks!!!

Leanne
Leanne Elliott Soden


#2

Yellow ocher is probably safer than correction fluid. If you do use
liquid paper, get the water based kind. Years ago, someone on Orchid
said that burning correction fluid was carcengenic, but was that the
oil based? I don’t recall, but you could find it in the archives.

Yellow ocher is intended for the purpose, while correction fluid was
never intended to be burned.

You could get the MSDS on ocher and see what that involves, many
companies have them online now.

Elaine
Metalsmith since 1990
and Certified PMC Instructor
http://www.CreativeTextureTools.com
Hard to Find Tools for Metal Clay


#3

I was going to write the exact same thing Elaine posted…don’t burn
the oil based stuff without a respirator…and yellow ochre is
infinitely safer as its only a clay…clay vs. chemicals,(if only
titanium white and the rest of the fluid’s water based ingredients
is still a chemical compound not intended for combustion ) the clay
wins every time…and by the way it doesn’t have to be white, I’ve
supplied random colours of water based correction fluid to
enamelists for years based onthe colour the wholesaler liquidator has
in stock at a given time…colour is irrelevant.

RER.


#4

Leanne

http://www.biclink.com/msds/WiteoutWaterBasedCorrectionFluid.pdf is
the MSDS for white out. Read the part about burning it.

I wouldn’t use it.

Terry


#5

I use both yellow ochre and ‘white-out’ correction fluid happily,
and (correct me if I am wrong!) Alan Revere recommends it in his book
"101 bench tips for jewellers".

The correction fluid does smell pretty awful when it gets hot; when
I used it in a group, one person said the smell made them feel quite
nauseous although it did not affect me at all. If you’re concerned
about health hazards, wear a basic mask and make sure you have good
ventilation in the studio.

I’ve never used commercial anti-flux.

Jane Walker
Australian Natural Gem Jewellery
www.australiannaturalgemjewellery.com.au


#6

“intended for the purpose” wha’? Yellow Ochre is a paint pigment that
happens to work as an anfi-flux. White out is a correction fluid that
happens to work as an anti-flux.


#7

I’m not sure about the safety of the correction fluid, but I know
one pro it has over the ochre is that once it’s dry, it stays dry.
The biggest problem I have with the ochre, is when if flux gets on
it, it gets fluid again & will flow usually just where you don’t want
it. The white stuff doesn’t do that, it stays just where you put it.

Lisa
Designs by Lisa Gallagher
www.lisagallagher.com


#8

Using correction fluid works but the binders and solvents when they
burn away can be quite toxic. Where as yellow ocher is iron oxide
mixed with water and works just as well and will not off-gas when
heated. If you need a little binder to help it stick then gum arabic
or gum tragacanth added to the yellow ocher water mix will act as a
binder and produce minimal gasses when burned.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#9

Before I retired from a major car company, in the safety review, we
had to list Liquid Paper as a hazardous material…I don’t think it
is safe and just wouldn’t use it - water base vs. the oil base, it’s
made in Thailand according to the bottle in my home office.

RMC


#10

The White out may contain trichloroethylene which should not be
heated. Details in this article on solder flow retardants at
Ganoksin:

If you use the solvent based, air it out and let it dry for ten
minutes outside before heating.

best
Charles


#11

I also use water colour paints - usually either Titanium white or
yellow ochre but other colours will work. I only usually use the
remains of the cheap tubes I buy my grandson but they have the
advantage that they are pre-mixed and incorporate a bit of gum arabic
or something similar which helps them to stay in place… If the piece
I am working on is already polished, I squeeze a bit of paint out
onto a saucer and mix in a drop of washing up liquid to help stop the
effects of surface tension.

Best wishes,
Ian
Ian W. Wright
Sheffield UK


#12

I don’t know how many times this will need to be said but
"white-out" correction fluid is not safe to use in any incantation,
oil based, water based, whatever based! And the notion of a basic
mask as protection from the fumes as mentioned by one poster is
incorrect as well. Do your research into the exact protection you
need in a mask for what you are putting into the air - the basic
masks provide little more than dust protection in almost every
instance.

When heated, it out-gases carcinogenic fumes that aren’t a little
nasty, they are extremely nasty. I believe, also, if I remember
correctly, the fumes are given off long after the flame is removed
from the piece you are working on, and color of the correction fluid
does not matter. I am always shocked when I hear of people still
using this dangerous method of “anti-flux”. Don’t do it. I don’t care
who recommends, don’t shorten your life.

Thanks, Terry - for the MSDS.


#13
The biggest problem I have with the ochre, is when if flux gets on
it, it gets fluid again & will flow usually just where you don't
want it. 

If you heat it gently until the ochre turns dark brown, you are
firing the clay and it will not dissolve again nearly so easily.
Then apply flux. I agree that correction fluid is better in this
regard. What I remember reading, possibly out of date, is that it is
the solvent that is the problem, so if you can be patient and let it
dry thoroughly, it much safer (with ventialtion, of course).

Noel


#14
The White out may contain trichloroethylene which should not be
heated. 

Why use the solvent-based White-out? We were taught to use only the
water-based product. Be aware, however, that it will cloud up your
pickle.

Margaret


#15

I never liked working with ochre because of the problems of flux
dissolving and moving it. I’m quite happy using rouge shavings mixed
with a bit of oil. I use regular motor oil but some thing like olive
oil should yield an organic version. A cup the size of a penny with a
handle, warm and mix thick enough so as to be solid at room
temperature. Warm slightly and apply to warmed metal as required. The
stuff stays put even with paste flux, will usually survive a pickle
bath or two (no quenching !) and comes off in the ultrasonic. An
added bonus for hinges and the like is that it polishes the inner
workings.

More work than grabbing a bottle of white out (which is probably
dried out anyways :-), but when I need an anti-flux a few extra
moments are a good investment.

Jeff


#16

wondering… can? acrylic paint (any color)? be used instead of?
white out or yellow ochre?


#17

I want to thank everyone who responded to my posts about annealing
and anti-flux. As usual I learned more than just the answers to my
questions.

Leanne
http://www.wholesalecrafts.com


#18
If you heat it gently until the ochre turns dark brown, you are
firing the clay and it will not dissolve again nearly so easily.
Then apply flux. I agree that correction fluid is better in this
regard. What I remember reading, possibly out of date, is that it
is the solvent that is the problem, so if you can be patient and let
it dry thoroughly, it much safer (with ventialtion, of course). 

Here is the rub, the correction fluids all contain three things a
solvent (mineral spirits, naphtha, or water etc.) a pigment which is
almost always titanium dioxide and a binder which is a resin or
polymer adhesive. While the solvent mostly evaporates right after
application the binder is what holds the pigment in place. It is the
burning binder that no one has any on, it is not the
kind of thing that is present in a typical MSDS. Each manufacturer
makes a different product often with different binders and solvents
sometimes a company makes several formulations of its own products.
So we don’t know if any brand is safe to burn and unless you have
somehow conducted safety tests on your own I don’t know where to get
the real With all this being said the burning of
polymers often liberates dangerous fumes and I would not expose
myself to these fumes when other safer alternatives are easily
available. I would stick to yellow ocher or water color paint with
yellow ocher or titanium white pigments.I would avoid other pigments
as you may get reactions from other colors that may affect the metal.
Also many pigments are toxic. Other types of paint are questionable
due to polymers binders and resins in them.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#19
wondering... can? acrylic paint (any color)? be used instead of?
white out or yellow ochre? 

burning polymers are the fume problem so no I would definitely not
use acrylic paint

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#20

Lisa et all: check out stullers settings antiflux pen. It works
better than white out (I quit using that stuff) and has an
applicator tip like a magic marker. Best I have ever used, doesn’t
liquefy with alcohol or flux and the tip gives excellent control so
the stuff goes where you want it and not where you don not want it.
worth every penny.

Frank Goss