I have been given conflicting opinions about the health risks
involved when using White Out correction fluid as a stop resist when
soldering. The propelant is an obvious danger initially, but what
about the paint during combustion & subsequent soldering?
Any opinions?
Dear Nick,
As I understand it, as long as the correction fluid is completely
dry there are no toxic chemicals released when the paint burns during
soldering. I usually clean it off between soldering operations and
apply a fresh coat. Brass brush, dish soap and water, usually takes
care of it. This way I limit any risk of accidental contamination of
my flux or solder.
Nanz Aalund
I use rouge mixed in metho to protect solder joins, but I usually
find cool paste in the right area will give me enough control over
heat and it easier to wash off.
I have never heard about using white out, and I don’t know about the
health risks. Your right about the propellant. Perhaps there are
metals in the paint that will contaminate the surface?
Water based White Out is available - the container has a green lable
Water based White Out is available - the container has a green lable
Its MSDS does not list any hazardous decomposition products but I
still would not want to use it as a stop off as it is not designed
for this use and because it is not flammable they may not have
tested too throughly for decomposition products at elevated
temperatures. MSDS are a good first step for and normally
quick and easy to get but they are not always complete or correct so
take them as one piece of data when evaluating products but look
elsewhere as well.
See my other post on this subject for alternatives to white out.
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
I use rouge mixed in metho to protect solder joins, but I usually find cool paste in the right area will give me enough control over heat and it easier to wash off.
I bought a can of yellow ochre for $1 about 30 years ago, but I just
use water to make paste. Ochre or rouge is the traditional way, and
works just fine. Zero troubles, zero health risk.
You might also try a relatively new product called Cold
Shield…it’s a gel you can brush on…it’s water soluble and easy to
clean off. It really works!
Dee
Hi, Nick
Just understand that the correction fluid (if you use the water-base
kind, as we do) will cloud up your pickle, as it comes off in the
pickle. Doesn’t really hurt the pickle, but makes it really hard to
find small items in the pickle pot.
Margaret
As I understand it, as long as the correction fluid is completely dry there are no toxic chemicals released when the paint burns during soldering.
When it is dry the solvent is gone but there are toxic fumes
generated by the decomposition of the binder that holds the pigment
when it is burned.
The MSDS for the Bic brand Wite-Out[tm] For Everything[tm] Correction
Fluids Section IV FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA states: “Unusual
Fire and Explosion Hazards : Toxic combustion gas may be formed as
decomposition products.”
Section V. REACTIVITY DATA states:
“Hazardous Decomposition Products : Toxic fumes or gases.”
Paint, white out etc were not designed to be burned in normal use so
there is no attempt to make them safe in this type of use many of
them will decompose into toxic fumes. Stick with yellow ocher or
powdered rouge (both forms of iron oxide) and water by it self or if
you need a binder to get it to stick use a small amount of gum aribic
or tragacanth solution as a binder or better yet use 5% by weight dry
kaolin clay mixed with the yellow ocher as the binder as it will not
burn. Or use commercial brazing stop-off products like Weld-r-White
from GE (a boron nitride and kaolin clay ceramic paste) or one of the
Nicrobraz Stop-Off products from Wall Colmonoy (Stop-Off Green is
available in a pen type dispenser from Stuller).
Jim
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
I’ve only used “White Out” that comes in a small bottle with a brush
applicator. I was told to use only the water soluable type. There may
be a health hazzard with the other variety.
Hello,
I used to use white out for an antiflux. But now, do to the ad they
had, we tried and really like the Green Stop Off pen from Stuller.
this is what they use. works very well and is like a hard felt tip
pen, and the tip can be shaped to your liking.
Candy in still very cold, though no longer fridgid, Central Oregon
I bought a can of yellow ochre for $1 about 30 years ago, but I just use water to make paste. Ochre or rouge is the traditional way, and works just fine. Zero troubles, zero health risk.
I have ochre and used it, but it would tend to run into my joint.
And I’m not so sure how safe burning rouge might or might not be. But
that stop off pen does stay put, even after you put the boric/alcohol
on it! And I have pickled and refired it again with out reapplying.
Candy
Just understand that the correction fluid (if you use the water-base kind, as we do) will cloud up your pickle, as it comes off in the pickle. Doesn't really hurt the pickle, but makes it really hard to find small items in the pickle pot.
That is me out. I use acid for cleaning. White residue is more of a
problem to me then another way to protect a solder join.
Phillip
Hi Nick & All,
I just saw your post & replies from various members, including my
husband( who has explored many methods of working in metals), long-
time goldsmith- client/ friend, Kevin Kelly, & fellow metalsmith,
friend & very knowledgable at chemistry- Jim Binnion…We all have/or
currently belong to a metals group here in the Bay Area called The
Metal Arts Guild. It was founded back in 1952 by various metal
artists, including Harry Dixon, merry renk (sic), Margaret de Patta,
Eugene Bielaski etc. with the idea of exchange of as well
as techniques & designs…During a meeting back in the mid to late
1980’s, I distinctly remember an item about white out/ liquid paper.
It was first thought to be a great blocker. But it was soon talked
about as having some very bad side effects…What exactly, I do not
recall but I do know I stopped using it and went back to yellow
ochre. I believe that when it was heated up, the fumes could be
considered toxic. I know it has a base solution that is flammable and
my bottle is labeled-“inhaling can be harmful or fatal. Flammable.”
Since 1989 the San Francisco Fire Dept. has had us list all known
chemicals that we use in our business with the building office & this
is included in the list. This includes the original & water soluble
solutions. Now, as Jim B. mentioned, I do not know the MDS of this
product, but I do think it was never intended for use with a torch. I
would look for a product specifically developed for that
task-especially when heated up at higher temperatures. As far as I
know- yellow ochre is one of those products- it’s basically dirt. You
can mix a paste with water and apply with a fine brush or small
needle tip. I hope this helps!!
PS If you’re intersted in a metals group, check out MAG at
Cheers from sunny & slightly warmer SF Bay Area,
Jo-Ann Maggiora Donivan
For the whiteout - I used to think that you could safely use the
natural or water based kind - and that the others formed a type of
gas when burnt that is toxic - but it seems that even that is not
true - here is the MSDS for water based liquid paper
http://www.liquidpaper.com/res/Water%20Base.pdf
It says under fire hazards that it may produce “hazardous
decomposition products”.
I know that when using the regular kind I ended up with a prolonged
cough after being exposed to it in a class setting. I didn’t notice
this happening when i use the ‘natural’ kind.
Ivy
Stick with yellow ocher or powdered rouge (both forms of iron oxide) and water by it self or if you need a binder to get it to stick use a small amount of gum aribic or tragacanth solution as a binder or better yet use 5% by weight dry kaolin clay mixed with the yellow ocher as the binder as it will not burn
I was taught to mix the yellow ochre w/denatured alcohol, make a
fairly thick paste, then when painted on, a quick pass with the torch
and the alcohol burns off and the yellow ochre paste is dry and works
beautifully.
Since you seem to have all the otherwise elusive answers, is there
anything wrong with this approach?
Thanks.
K
I was taught to mix the yellow ochre w/denatured alcohol, make a fairly thick paste, then when painted on, a quick pass with the torch and the alcohol burns off and the yellow ochre paste is dry and works beautifully.
Sounds good to me as long as you have adequate ventilation for the
alcohol fumes. The chemicals used to denature ethanol are not good to
breathe.
Jim
James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
360-756-6550
I posted on using water soluable “white out” without addressing the
issue of toxicity.
What I left out is that I have a laminar flow hood in my studio.
Thanks to a friend who is very knowlegable about mechanical things
shared his design for a laminer flow hood. I had a local shop
fabricate the hood. It has a squirrel cage exhaust fan with rheostat.
I would not think of soldering except under the hood. It’s also
useful when using epoxies, solvents, etc.
Although I have been earning my living doing what I do for a couple
of decades I still consider myself an amateur. Jim Binnion, Maggiora,
and Donivan are the professionals who know much more about what’s
involved in these processes. I yield to their expertise.
For those who can, get a soldering hood with active exhaust. Your
lungs will thank you.
K Kelly
yellow ochra is mutch safer and just as easy to use once you mix it
up. and it doesn’t smell as bad.
Robert L. Martin
Goldsmith/Platinumsmith
Diamond Setter
I have used artist’s white paint (water soluble) which I used to use
in correcting detailed plant drawings. It works well.
Elizabeth Gordon-Mills
9 Edmund St
Normanville 5204
South Australia