I am writing on behalf of friends who are looking for a reliable
place to send some platinum and gold that they have had for some
time. She said she worked at a chemical plant and saved the platinum
from “thermocouples” for many years, and has “about a one pound
chunk of platinum” and he has “industrial grade gold” that came from
relay contact points in scales. He thinks it is about 75% gold, and
said it includes copper, nickel and zinc. Total of about 1/2 pound.
If anyone is familiar with these metals in their current form, and
can suggest a place that they can safely send them to turn into
cash, they would appreciate the I told them if anyone
knew, it would be the kind folks on the Orchid list!
Thanks in advance,
Carol Stanyon
Following my post above, I mentioned their question to my husband,
and he enlightened me to the possibility that these people may have
acquired their metals without permission from the chemical company.
I am a bit naive about things like this (My background in nursing
didn’t expose me to industrial procedures and protocols). So anyway,
I just want to make this disclaimer that I have no first hand
knowledge about how these materials were acquired, etc. These folks
just knew that I make jewelry, so asked me if I could tell them a
good source that buys metals.
There are many refiners - we sell ours to Eastern Smelting and
Refining, but we recycle almost everything, so we don’t have a lot
of scrap. I would suggest, for a 1 lb. chunk of platinum to begin
with, plus more, that you go to the big boys and see what they have
to say: Johnson Matthey, David Fell, Hauser and Miller, Pease and
Curran - there are others. They will be 100% reputable, tho maybe not
the very best price. Also weigh, document and even photograph
absolutely everything. 1 lb. (Troy or Avd.?) of platinum is worth
around $20,000…
She said she worked at a chemical plant and saved the platinum from
"thermocouples" for many years, and has "about a one pound chunk of
platinum" and he has "industrial grade gold" that came from relay
contact points in scales. He thinks it is about 75% gold, and said
it includes copper, nickel and zinc. Total of about 1/2 pound.
These “friends” of yours are both thieves. One has stolen over
$15,000 frorm her employer, the other maybe $2500. Each of them could
be put in prison for what they have done. The mind boggles at the
idea that anyone could possibly think otherwise. In what
disfunctional moral climate can someone reach adulthood without
understanding that if they take something of value from some person
or some entity with the intention of permanently depriving said
person or entity of the item(s}, that it is anything but theft.
Perhaps that society should require school graduates to pass an exam
in ethics before turning them loose on society. Let’s just say for
an example, you have your studio in your home. And let’s say you have
reached a level of success where you have the resources to hire a
cleaning person once a week. Let’s say further that said cleaning
person, every week, just happens to filch a pinch of the gold scrap
you keep in a container on your bench. Is that person stealing from
you? Hmmm? At what point then in terms of the size and wealth of the
owner of the appropriated items does such “appropriation” cease to
be a crime? Or what is the amount of the “appropriated” property
below which it is okay to take it? I’ve got another bulletin for
anyone deficient in knowledge of such matters… Assisting someone in
disposing of such items would make the person assisting guilty of
aiding and abetting the commission of a felony. How does that grab
ya?
A little late on this one, but it is now a federal law in the US
that you have to be a business in order to send in scrap and get cash
back for it if you are going through a refiner. If you are an
individual you can go to someone who buys gold off the street and
then they can send it in because they have a license. Unless you are
going to act as an intermediary (which I wouldn’t recommend because
it definitely sounds like there is some theft involve here) they will
not be able to send their product directly to a refiner.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140 @Daniel_R_Spirer
I suggest you speak with Pease and Curren and Advanced Chemical. AD
and Pease and Curren are both in Warwick Rhode Island. The metals may
need to be reclaimed differently than how usual jewelry type scrap is
refined. They will both know what to do.
I would avoid anyone who is also a manufacturer of mill products,
findings, etc. Stick with people whose business it is to just refine
the material you sent in. You may also consider hiring a referee, an
independent who will monitor the refining of the material and take
an independent assay of the melt.
Give the refiners a call and ask what the fees are for each
respective metal. We used to send a lot of gold to David Fell and
sent some platinum in one time only to find out they charge 25% to
refine platinum. We’d saved it up for years. That was a very
expensive mistake. Hoover & Strong had a much lower price for
processing platinum. Also compare the fees according to the weight
you are sending in. For instance, last summer I sent in a small
batch of scrap gold for my father to David Fell because they were
cheaper than Hoover on small batches. But for larger batches we get a
slightly better return by sending stuff to Hoover. It pays to get
your info before you send the scrap in. Have a good day.
…he said she worked at a chemical plant and saved the platinum
from “thermocouples” for many years, and has “about a one pound
chunk of platinum” and he has “industrial grade gold” *
These "friends" of yours are both thieves. One has stolen over
$15,000 from her employer, the other maybe $2500.*
G’day; My story isn’t about platinum or gold but silver. Many years
ago I worked in a research establishment specialising in iron and
steel. I was working on a special piece of equipment and needed a
short length of angle iron. Now, being a research place we had a
lovely scrap heap which contained anything from bits of steel to a
large Meccano set which someone had dumped. Well, I had a hacksaw
with me and got the bit of iron I wanted, but noticed a piece of
thin-walled seamless pipe about 5 feet long and 2 inches diameter.
Dang me boots if it didn’t look like silver! I didn’t believe it;
who chucks away a silver pipe of that size? So I took a tiny piece
off, dissolved it in nitric acid in the lab, added sodium chloride
solution and got a thick white precipitate of silver chloride which
dissolved in ammonia. Whoopee! Indeed, I had silver! So I added
chromate to some of the solution - deep crimson of silver chromate.
I checked for copper with ammonia (was it sterling or fine?) No
copper, so proven fine silver. What to do do? When in doubt ask the
boss, but I was sensible (or immoral) enough to cut off about 8
inches first, then went to the boss with the rest of my find. I
convinced him it was pure silver, and his final comment was “Leave it
with me”. So I did and kept the short bit as 'Finders fee" and stuck
it in a drawer at home (“in case it might come in handy one day”)
Years later I made it into silver serviette rings, triangular and
anticlastic shape. And the moral (?) of that is it turned me on to
jewellery making!!
I use Pease and Curren in Rhode Island. They have been around for a
century I believe and are well respected in this area. You can send
in mixed metal bench filings, sweeps and karat scrap and they will
refine for all the metals you specify. If there is platinum in the
mix, settlement takes up to thirty days, but well worth the wait. I
believe they take about 4.5% of the refined metal and around $ 150
as a fee for mixed metal. Polishing dust is extra, but they will
refine for platinum. Call them and they’ll schedule a free pick up,
and provide you with canisters of all sizes for sanding sticks or
dust collection filters, you name it. I’ve used them for at least ten
years and am always pleased with the results.
you really need to back off calling people thieves when no one knows
the full story. There are a lot of times when businesses don’t really
know what they are doing and the pitch stuff in dumpsters that has
value.
Years ago, Platinum was not all that expensive and neither was gold.
Gold used to be $45 an oz. remember? In the early 60’s Platinum was
right at $100 an oz. SO, where ever they worked might not have
wanted to deal with the ‘hassle’ of locating a refiner and paying the
charges. It might have been easier for the guy in charge to just
pitch the stuff. Companies do things like that all of the time. They
right things off of inventory and claim the tax losses.
When I was in college, various departments used to spring clean and
pitch out all sorts of things, books, lab equipment, furniture, etc.
When I asked if some of us could dumpster dive we were told to feel
free. No one in the Department offices wanted to deal with the old
books or furniture or lab equipment. It was easier for them to all
just write it all off and buy new stuff. So, these folks may have
just taken advantage of the same type of bookkeeping.
Well, if your friend’s story is true, she or he or someone who
"saved" this material is now a felon. Grand larceny and theft by
conversion. Now that you know about it, if you don’t dial 911, YOU
become an accessory. Failure to report a felony is, in fact, a
crime.
They didn’t save it, they stole it. It never stopped belonging to
its owner.
Years ago, Platinum was not all that expensive and neither was
gold. Gold used to be $45 an oz. remember? In the early 60's
Platinum was right at $100 an oz.
Even if it is.01 an oz it is theft if you take something that does
not belong to you. The value has no bearing on the fact that
something is taken without permission. No form of rationalization
makes it ok. If it was given then it is a different story but do you
really believe that someone really would give an employee tens of
thousands of dollars of precious metal just to avoid the hassle of
finding a refiner?
Jim
James Binnion @James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts
you really need to back off calling people thieves when no one
knows the full story. There are a lot of times when businesses
don't really know what they are doing and the pitch stuff in
dumpsters that has value.
Short of written permission from someone with the authority to
decide how to dispose of company property, or a published company
policy permitting it, if you take it home with you with the intent to
keep it, it’s theft. The key words there are “someone with
authority”. It may be easier for the guy in charge to just pitch it
as you say but unless that guy owns it or has been officially given
the authority to dispose of it as he sees fit, it’s theft.
Years ago, Platinum was not all that expensive and neither was
gold. Gold used to be $45 an oz.
That’s right, and I remember when it was $32 an ounce. At that time
my new wife and I rented our first apartment for $35 a month. It’s
all relative, but it doesn’t make any difference what the value of
the item is, If you haven’t gotten it legally from someone who owns
it or has the authority to dispose of it, you stole it. I believe the
Spanish government still claims ownership of galleons which have
laid on the ocean floor for centuries.
you really need to back off calling people thieves when no one
knows the full story.
You’re right no one knows the full story but I’ve been approached by
people with similar situations and they were skimming metals from
jobs they were working on. That’s stealing. It is highly unlikely
that they would acquire 1 lb of platinum except through an illegal,
or at least ethically challenged, method. However all of this is
MOOT. Any legitimate refiner will not take their metal unless they
are a real company with legitimate reasons for generating scrap
metal. This federal law came into being as a result of the
antiterrorism legislation that has been enacted. The government
doesn’t want people effectively washing their money through refiners
in the event that they are terrorists (actually I think it’s more a
tax thing personally, but that’s just my opinion). Don’t believe me?
Call a refiner and tell them you’re just an individual with a bunch
of scrap metal and see what they say.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
I forgot to mention, even though I have no knowledge or evidence
about the background of their actions, I am naturally not going to
forward any to these people about refiners. Thank you to
everyone who offered advice!
There is another possibility. I have a customer that is in the
business of trash hauling. He picks up at various businesses and
disposes of it. Last hear he bought me 300lbs of some scrap that
contained a high percentage of silver. I refined it for him and it
was a nice bit of change. The company that he picked it up from had
it in their waste. No theft involved. Ted
Theft is theft in the case of the intent to steal. If you cleverly
keep mum about the potential value of the “trash” your employer
tosses
out, then dumpster-dive and hustle the goods, you’re a thief. If you
ask said employer if you may have the cast-offs, and he consents, go
for it. Grow that acorn into a mighty oak.
I come from a standpoint of duty. Too many come from a standpoint of
"Where’s mine?". It is such as these that dismantle good societies
one piece at a time. It’s just a little piece. That’s a nice fence
you have been toiling to build. I’ll just take a sliver with my
pen-knife, for a toothpick. Enough slivers taken, no more fence.
When companies WRITE (sp) things off, they have to cover the loss
somewhere. Tax authorities probably look at a pattern of write-offs
as a red flag for audits. You the taxpayer are guilty 'til you prove
your innocence, at your own after-tax expense.
And then the taxes fund colleges, who perpetually complain of lack
of money, then throw stuff out? Couldn’t they at least get the
business majors to do a rummage sale?
It’s way past time to dump some tea in the harbor.
Dan Woodard
Even if it is.01 an oz it is theft if you take something that does
not belong to you. The value has no bearing on the fact that
something is taken without permission. No form of rationalization
makes it ok. If it was given then it is a different story>
I wholeheartedly agree! I am exceedingly honest and pride myself on
my integrity and ethics. (but probably caused a chuckle with my
naivete).
For the record, I only referred to them as “friends” as a figure of
speech. They are more accurately acquaintances, and I do not even
know their last names. I just met them a couple of months ago at a
selling venue where they are also vendors.