Those are what were important to me, even as a single parent in 1976, working at a full-time job at the time. It never felt hobby-like, it felt essential. like I had found what I was supposed to be doing as the artist I had felt I was. I had found my way to my 'home'.
Ah! So well said, thank you Linda. “It felt essential,” I feel the
same way.
I think metalsmithing occupies a very odd space in terms of art/craft/culture. It's *so* bloody technical, and the gear is *so* blinking expensive, nevermind the cost of the precious metals and that we *have* to spend a lot more time thinking about the 'how do I pay for thise" aspect of it than any of the other arts/crafts. Metalsmithing isn't like the others. Our sawdust is literally worth its weight in gold. That may be a good chunk of the reason why it seems like metalsmiths are obsessed with sales. We have to be.
Yes!
Well said Brian.
Hi yet again,
A followup thought.
As I said, metals is in an odd place, culturally. We focus on sales
because we have to, because of the cost of our kit and materials.
But we also focus on making a living because we can. Or at least
there’s a hope of it.
Someone earlier in this thread mentioned a joke about ‘how do you
find someone with a masters in music comp in Nashville? Hold up
finger and say “waiter!”.’ The music comp students go into it
knowing there’s a snowball’s chance of making a living at it. A
friend of mine graduated with a BA in music, concentration on the
oboe. She’s now a data monkey for a medical manufacturer, and she
knew that going in.
For all of the rest of the arts and crafts, there really isn’t a
’realworld’ trade left, so you know from the start that it’ll be a
labor of love. If you happen to hit it on the craft fair or gallery
circuit, that’s great, but the odds do not favor it.
Metals does have a surviving trade, so there is at least the hope of
being able to make a living doing what you love professionally. So
some of the apparent contrast between metals and the rest of the
arts/crafts is simply because we can -maybe- hope to make a living
at it.
An interesting thing to investigate (in a separate thread): Metals
has the last surviving craft trade. We also have the first craft
trade.
Jewelry came first, and looks set to last longest. What does that
say about the human animal?
As a side note, I do actually know how to spell. For reasons known
only to the orchid gods, sometimes when I put in double punctuation,
it comes out as odd vowels. (two question marks turns into an 'e’
sometimes, multiple periods (ellipses) turn into gobbledygook, etc.)
So what I meant to say in my previous post was If you’re not trying
to make the living you want, what on earth are you doing?
Regards,
Brian
To those of you who think you CAN ride, if you can't do a rising trot for 10 minutes with out stirrups you have some work to do.
I expect you’ll get other replies too on this, Brian but here goes -
It’s a matter of inner thigh, back and stomach muscles - or at least
that’s how I was taught how to do it.
You do rise on your knees, but not by lifting them up like a jockey
and kneeling on the saddle! And you shouldn’t have a vice-like grip
with your knees and lower leg, either.
All of that is what makes it so darned hard to do! But by golly it
gives you balance and control (of your own body in the saddle) in
spades.
I ride Western now in the Canadian Rocky mountains, and love it, but
back in UK when I was riding hard to hounds two or more days a week
all winter, my “riding muscles” were quite different!
Janet
I gotta say that for Andy to even ask the question betrays a certain naivete that only college professors seem to possess.
Did you really just say this? Wow. And yet I’m not a college
professor.
Must have come upon my naivete by some other route than the
academic.
I was hoping that the conversation would navigate around the “us vs
them” doldrums but it seems that that may be unavoidable.
There are plenty of subjects and majors in college and university
that do not hold the promise or guarantee of career or job placement.
Yet they are still valid pursuit.
Again and for the record John and Jo-Ann:
-I am not a professor
-I hold neither an MFA or a BFA
-I believe that a responsible academic education should include
Professional Practices and Development.
-The above should include on grant writing, applying to
exhibitions and shows, possible careers in the industry and
associated fields and careers.
There’s more that you can do with a degree in metals than make “art”
or work at the bench.
Andy Cooperman, Metalsmith
The ultimate goal in most human endeavor is to make a living. How is that surprising or unworthy? At the end of the day, we all need to eat.
Did I say that making a living is somehow unworthy or tainted?
Andy Cooperman, Metalsmith
Gee, I hope not entirely, Andy! But I guess the extent to which that might be true depends on the needs and desires of the individual metalsmith, their time in life and the cards they were dealt in the big game.
Yes, well said. Especially the first sentence.
I've heard Metcalf do his famous "wait tables" speech. (Advice: wait tables rather than do a grunt bench monkey job. Save what energy you've got for important art.)
Regarding Metcalf, I guess I went the other way. Worked at the bench
in jewelry stores and trade shops, shot waxes, cast, finished, sized
and set 8-10 hours a day. Then went home and worked in my studio at
nights and on weekends. Steeped myself in it. Did this for years. I
also worked at a kiosk in a mall buying gold and silver and worked
for a pair of dentists in their officebuilding crowns and bridges.
I saw all this as an education that allowed me to amass enough
technical and experience to make the work that I knew I
wanted to make.
I always hoped that what I wanted to make would sell. But above all,
I wanted to make what I considered to be good work. Work that meant
something to me. I still do. Now, more than ever. (That’s why you
sometimes have to make something twice, even though the client isn’t
paying for that.) I tried making production work and sold enough but
I knew that the production route was not the one I wanted to take.
Neither was the bench route.
Somehow, very early on, the idea of making custom and commission
work seemedlike an obvious and effective way to generate income, a
way that seemed to agree with my personality. That was about making
what a client envisioned in the best way that I could.
But I also knew that would not be enough. I needed to do repairs,
maybe a little production, some lower end one of a kind and some
exhibition work that was less influenced by the market (I also
understood that we are never free from the influence of the
marketplace, whether you define it as the buying public or the
judgement of your peers.) But at some point it became clear that I
really needed to keep the idea of sales out of some of what I make.
Because the choices that I was making were too influenced by it. I
also knew that if I could free myself (as much as I could) from the
sales constraint in that work, I could discover ideas and new
directions that could be adapted towork that was more apt or
designed to sell.
I still work in all those areas and I talk about it when I teach.
(Again, John, I am not a professor.) That mix— the pie-- is how I
support myself and also how I keep it fresh.
I often talk with college metal students. Just got back from
visiting at North Texas University, in fact. I try to be as honest
as I can be with them. Sometimes brutally so. They need the reality.
But they don’t need to have their spirit quashed.
One more thing: I know a lot of professors. And again, I am not one
myself. Some are, indeed, arrogant, opinionated and aloof. As are
some of the bench jeweler’s that I have worked with. Some from
either side of the fence are dismissive of anything from the other
side.
But many college and university teachers are open to all sides of
the profession and feel a real responsibility to inform their
students about what the field has to offer.
But they also feel it is important for students to develop their
ideas and their voice during these years spent in school.
People make jewelry and metal work for a lot of reasons. Some even
think it’s art.
Take care,
Andy
Let’s see, is jewelry making and metal smithing only about making a
living? I think that has to do with the desire of the individual. If
I prefer making jewelry (and lapidary work), would I be happy doing
something else? If I had all the money I needed, I would still spend
the same amount of time making jewelry.
Making a living is a benefit of pursuing my obsession with metal and
stone.
Well said Andy. I think you have to be true to your conviction of
what you need to create. After all, it is much harder to sell work
that you don’t believe in. Once you find your niche, things seem to
fall in place.
Judy
I think that whether or not you make jewelry to make a living, that
gratification of being able to sell or having a following is just a
way to validate your hard won skills.
conversation would navigate around the "us vs them" doldrumsbut it seems that that may be unavoidable.
I’m assuming you meant to write “wouldn’t navigate”, Andy. And I’m
somewhat replying to you because you replied to me but this is
really for the general thread.
Artists. We are artists - here on Orchid we need to use that word.
Moreover, we are SERIOUS ARTISTS. OK, fine by me. Making jewelry is
actually a trade - some will object to that word but I associate
“craft” with hobbies - you can use that one if you prefer. It is a
thing that is made with our hands, which makes it a trade. Those
things are designed - youcan call it art if you like - and so there
is a creativity to it. If you are going to make jewelry you need to
learn how - this is an important thing. The world of jewelry and
goldsmithing has risen to great heights in the last century, with
the advent of electricity, compressed gas and other things - not to
mention computers. We have Faberge and Lalique and Van Cleef and
even David Webb to gauge our abilities by.
One of the places we have arrived at in America in the last 40 years
or so is the emergence, and slow decline in recent times, of “art
jewelry”. I believe it was Elaine who posted a study done recently
about the state of that genre, which was pretty sad. What a great
many people think about that, myself included, is that we have
people with art schooling but little actual training in jewelry
making. Which is to say that they may have the vision but they don’t
know how to execute. Remember we are gauging our abilities by the
above names and others, not just your craft show buddy. This is a
real problem. It’s no different from having painters who can’t
paint. Europe largely still has apprenticeship programs so
contemporary design is thriving there.
The point being that art without execution is no better than
execution without art. Somebody here actually said it, years ago: “I
don’t need skills because I’m an ARTIST!”
That statement is the crux of Andy’s “us vs them”, to my mind - well,
yes you do need skills, what is it you don’t get?
That’s why I’ve said it before - if you are serious about a career
making jewelry the best thing you can do is get ajob. Learn your
chops, pay yer dues. Lots of people here say they would never do
repair work but it teaches you to be a jeweler. More importantly, it
shows you how jewelry is made - bracelet links, catches, different
setting techniques and on and on.
And if you want this for a career my advice is to forget about being
a nartist (sic -dwelling on it…) and get to work. It’s just a
job. The money is in gold, platinum and gemstones including (the
somehow hated) diamond. But you need to learnhow to deal with those,
you see. Your potential clients know who Lalique was too. When you
actually, really know how to be a goldsmith, the rest of it is easy
and will just flow.
I read Jo-Ann’s posting too, I just wanted to expand this… John
D.
Hi there,
I want jump into this thread, since I wasspecifically named in a
recent posts. First off, I respect all who posthere, whether I agree
with them or not. I do not see this thread as “them against us”. It
was started as a discussion of–what would you advise? I have used
this thread for my college class at CCA (Calif. College of the Arts)
this semester, especially the responses by Andrew C., Stephan W.,
John D., Brian M.& Michael D. S. At school I see many students come
from all around the world in order to get their BA here. Theywant to
be a part of the jewelry & metals world and they want an education,
too. They are certainly dedicated and understand that they have
agreat opportunity to learn & create here. But, like many, I know
that they will have to go out once they leave here and try to pursue
their “art” by making a living at it or go onto grad school. That’s
just reality. At a group show last night, I was in a discussion with
one of our newestgrads who has started her own gallery here in the
East Bay. She, to, me, is the ideal of what we are trying to achieve.
I mean by that she & her two colleagues are creating, doing stock for
their section of the gallerythat is true to their designs but yet
still sellable. The grads realize that while they may try out new
ideas that stretch their creativity but they need also to supply the
public–not just friends and family-with work that is well crafted,
well conceived and has an affordable price point. And they still find
time to do private commissions.
They have a three year+ vision and some business background. They
know that they have to account for rent, insurance, utilities etc.
They are keenly aware of the day to day matters. After a whirlwind
opening in December and a flurry of activity for Valentine’s Day,
they have settled in for the longhaul.
When I critiqued some of the first projects for my casting class
this week, I especially mentioned to each student an aspect of their
piece that needed to be improved. This included sharp edges, flat
spots, incomplete finishes etc. Why? Because, even though their
creations were good and incorporated promising designs, I want them
to be aware that their work will be judged here and outside the
classroom on practicality and wear ability. I have shown them some
of my work & others that is for “exhibits, galleries & books” and
for retail customers. All venues demand that it to be crafted well.
I told them to use this opportunity in school to explore, create &
utilize the fine studio that the school has. This is a great
opportunity! Then take their skills to go out and pursue. After all,
most will have school loans and yet have to earn a living. They see
John & I working at what we love but realize that you don’t get
35-40 years into it without hard work to go along with the desire,
particularly during a recession. We have been fortunate to work at
what we love! To quote Brian:
“But we also focus on making a living because we can. Or at least
there’s ahope of it.”
Sincerely,
Jo-Ann Maggiora Donivan
donivanandmaggiora.com
Hi in much of the Western world education had been dumbed down.
The aim seems to give everyone a “fuzzy pink glow” and be happy.
The same in sport when my kids played soccer and tennis at the end
of the competition everyone got a trophy. No matter how bad they were.
When I did sport prizes were for first, second and third and there
were losers. If you did not like being a loser you trained to become
a winner or faced the fact you were never going to be good at that.
Reality check.
The point being that art without execution is no better than execution without art. Somebody here actually said it, years don't need skills because I'm an ARTIST!"
Decades ago when I visited an art school in China the drawing class
started with cubes, spheres, cylinders and pyramids.
Finished with skeletons. How many art schools in the west do that
know?
I have a wax going to the casters, it was done buy a fully trained
jeweller. It is a marvel to behold.
CAD designed but with knowledge of construction and setting behind
it. And if it works and I have full confidence it will, there will be
some very worried dinosaurs in the trade as well as CAD jockeys with
no construction training. CAD is a tool good for some things not
others, just as a file is not a hammer.
Also with 3D printers dropping in price mold makers may well have
problems too, if they can’t use a 3D printer.
But in the end quality designers with construction knowledge and gem
setters will always be here.
Yes there are some tools for gem setting to speed the process, but
odd shaped stones cannot be machine set.
I have always found customers like the “this was made for you and
this design will not be repeated.” I am not CAD trained but I don’t
think a customer would worry if I told them “I have spent a few hours
designing your piece on the computer, here it is in 3D. Now while you
sip that champagne I will print the wax.” I think that watching the
piece being printed would fascinate many customers. And if they liked
it you could (one day) print in metal and finish the setting while
they had lunch. So they could wear it for dinner.
What do 1% ladies make for dinner? Reservations.
But still design will win. If it looks like bad design it will not
sell at top dollar. Bespoke customers know quality.
Yes for most of us it is a job and a trade. And Grannies lie to you,
They care for your feelings customers, wives and daughters do not
when it comes to jewellery. I am just about to set some opals in
studs for the grand daughter and if she complains about the setting
I’ll just hide her teddy, LOL.
Richard
I’m one of those fortunate college students who survived and
succeeding. Only wished I saved more money during those golden years
when businesswas great. I think what happened is that I learned
jewelry making in high school, established myself as an jeweler, and
was able to keep selling and going to college, for my BFA in metals.
I did learned to be asilversmith in college, but jewelry paid the
bills. Because I was an established artist in NH, I think it made
the metals dept biased toward me, but to give them credit, they left
me alone to develop my style farther while the other students were
being molded into the RISD style. I did go to grad school right
after I got my BFA, for I wanted to teach, andI knew having a MFA
was critical. I started teaching professionally ata local college 3
years after I graduated from grad school. Before I graduated from
grad school, I got jobs working for fine jewelry stores, sothat
furthered my skills and bench education. After 3 years of
jewelryrepair, I was burnt out, and went to teach and do craft
shows. To this day, I’m still teaching. To this day, those repair
skills have paid off, for I do a lot of custom work and repairs,
doing the impossible, and Ipass on those skills to my students. For
whatever I learn, I pass it on. I feel an obligation to pass on
skills that may not always be there or known, so I can keep paying
it forward. If you want the best jewelry education, a trade school
like N. Bennet St School in Boston, or Alan Revere Academy are best.
Otherwise, you’ll have to learn by trial and error, and it’s a pain
at times.
This is my 30th year as a metalsmith, and I still love working with
metal. Repairs, not so much, but just to be able to survive means so
much to me.
Joy
joyraskin.com
Hi
The money is in gold, platinum and gemstones including (the somehow hated) diamond.
Most of the time yes, but there is still a market for silver. George
Jensen still has a large range of silver but I think the prices are
far too much. $400 for a silver mobius ring, who you kidding? It was
cutting edge before I was born but not so now.
If you make for love or money quality at the end must always be
strived for. Practise is the key. I made 500 bezel set cabs before
the quality was second to none and I could work at a commercial speed
of manufacture.
It is no good if you make quality and take 4 hours to make a simple
bezel set cab in silver. When the competition can do the same
quality in one to one and a half hours.
With gold there is not the same pressure to work so quickly. I make
4 silver and bezel set gem stone rings in a day about six hours on the
bench. But I only make one 18 kt gem set ring in a day and make more
profit on the gold than the silver.
The gold day includes a good restaurant lunch. The joys of being
semi- retired.
You also have to give the customers what they want. Australia is
primarily a 9 kt country and while I hate to work with 9kt compared
to 18 kt I am going to make some pieces up for stock in 9 kt. Just
got to remember not to tell the customers “It is not gold it is
copper with 37.5% gold added to it!” LOL:)
Richard
Hi
Lots of people here say they would never do repair work but it teaches you to be a jeweler.
I don’t do repairs except for quality pieces and only if within my
limited skill set. Few and far between where I live. I did spend
many hours looking over the shoulder of a master repairer. Mostly I
learnt don’t make sh*t like that, ring bands too thin claws too thin
and too few. Bezels not down sloppy soldering etc.
Once went for a job in a shop, was asked how I would repair a ring a
piece of filigree had fallen out of and got lost. Shop owner was not
impressed when I said “I would not it is rubbish. It will have a
whole lot of problems in the future.” Told him what the problems
would be and said “I don’t work with cr*p.”
All my pieces are made to last, only had to repair 3 of my pieces in
the last 25 years, 2 rings and 1 pendant, one had been slammed in a
door the other a gardening accident, one had been dropped on
concrete. Client claimed stone “just fell out”
The woman who bought the pendant was really annoyed you could not
drop jewellery on concrete and expect it to be undamaged.
Louped it with a friend who was a jeweller too. We showed her the
point of impact and explained why the stone came out. Hit a bezel at
the right angle with enough force and out pops the stone.
Reset the stone for free. Bitch said “I will tell my friends not to
buy from you.” So I said “Tell both of them to $@# off and you can
too!”
Geez lady you broke it and had it fixed for free and still want to
bitch. Not an endearing quality to me. I make sure they don’t come
back. But this one did found could not match my design or price. “I
said I must apologize, I did not realise you had a hearing problem.”
She said she did not. So I said “Then you must have heard me to tell
you to #$@ off.” Which thankfully she did.
Richard
Sorry John,
But I couldn’t make it through the entirety of your post. But the
bit that I read brings another question to mind: How would you define
art? And how would you define artist? The terms are used often here
and I am curious how people define it.
Take care,
Andy
Andy Cooperman’s post regarding Bruce Metcalf’s table wait speech is
dead on for me as far as how Andy sees a path to pay bills and
nurture an artistic vision that is separate from the pressure of
having to compromise his artistic vision by making work for the
standards of the marketplace.
I was sitting next to Bruce Metcalf who was one of the speakers, and
he was having a chat with another speaker at the SNAG conference in
Albuquerque.
I did not know who they were, I overheard their conversation, and
what they were saying was so far from any reality I was familiar
with as a goldsmith and Gemologist who has a retail store, I just
gave them an opinion, what they were talking about had nothing to do
with the real world.
I think it is an illusion that what is considered as “art” is
separate or different in any way from any other jewelry. There is a
crossover, design, craftsmanship, and a basic ability to be creative
even in just sizing a ring.
One persons art is another persons blah blah blah.
My question was not meant to rile or bait. But I have noticed, at least on this forum, that there seems to be a feeling among some, if not many, that the ultimate goal is to make a living with metal and jewelry work.
I’ve read this thread with great interest, and have thoroughly
enjoyed it.
I don’t think you riled anyone up Andy, but you did start some
introspective thinking. That’s a good thing.
I think your assessment above is correct, but maybe backwards, in
that the goal of most of us that do this for a living (yourself
included, if I may be so bold) is to work with metal and stones and
be able to eke out a living while doing it. I know this is certainly
my view of the whole thing as I’ve lived it in my life. I envy those
that can do this and never have to worry about how much it costs or
whether their work will sell and turn enough of a profit to live the
lifestyle they want. I’ve spent the last several decades trying to
get to that point, and to a great extent, I find that I’m still
paying dues. Believe me, if I didn’t love working metal to my
absolute core, I would have given it up a long time ago. I could have
made a far better and easier living working in the field in which I
was educated as an airline or corporate pilot. Great view from the
office, but not a lot of room for creativity. One gentle chandelle (a
maximum performance 180 degree climbing turn which would be fun as
all get out in a DC-9) and not only would I lose my job, but probably
my license. The FAA has no sense of humor and most airlines certainly
do not encourage a sense of artistic freedom in their pilots.
I guess that was my point to Elaine’s students. Others have said
pretty much the same thing in different ways. You really have to love
the art of metal working a lot if you wish to make it your trade. I
really think it’s important that every person considering making it
their life-sustaining trade should be made keenly aware of how
difficult it can be to make a living working metal as a rookie with
no safety net.
While I am sure this is the aim of a majority of students--it certainly was mine, I feel that it's important to state that there is more to the pursuit of jewelry and metalsmithing than making a living.
I think that most art students don’t need to be told that there is
more to art than making a living. The danger comes when they’re not
being taught that there is more to making a living than art.
I think the danger (?) is that university art departments and most
students put too much emphasis on making the pursuit of art the
dominant or even the only driving force, with little regard for the
short-term consequences after graduation. I mean it’s easy to dream
of the joy of working metal all day and the tools we’re going to buy
and projects we’re going to do when it all comes together, but what
self-respecting metal art student is going to think about resumes,
entry level skills, cost of goods sold, balance sheets and all that
boring stuff until they have to?
I hope that art departments start doing as you recommend Andy, and
add some professional development training to their core curriculum
and put a little more emphasis on the more pragmatic facets of
becoming and being a professional artist. I think that would serve
not only the student but the industry.
Professional Artist. There’s two words you don’t see together very
often.
But isn’t that what most of us full timers really are?
Dave Phelps