You might try the same thing in their store and see what happens.
Dee
Take photos of your original designs. Mail each photo separately to yourself using registered mail. Do not open the letter when you receive it. If you have to go to court, you have the dated, registered envelope with the photo of your work inside. It is only opened by the judge.
This is such an ancient piece of fallacy that we have to rebut it two
or three times a year on Orchid. It lives for several reasons not the
least of which is that people want to find a cheap, easy,
(ego safe) way to beat the real world system which is contained in a
large body of law known as copyright law. It will be, given the
discovery process, IMPOSSIBLE to get your sealed envelope opened by a
judge and worse than that will be that any self-respecting judge or
juror will KNOW that anyone trying to “beat the system” with such a
device is A) the guilty party, and B) will also be smart enough to
FAKE the “sealed envelope” trick. Take 5 envelopes, today is fine,
put 3 blank sheets of paper in each, tuck the rear flap in, address
them to yourself and apply postage and drop in any mailbox, receive
said envelopes and set them aside for the day you need absolute proof
of some “prior possession” date… NOT!
You will need to register your complaint of competition immediately upon learning of it because of the value of dates involved. If your competitor cannot produce similar photographs that were registered earlier, then your chances of success increase.
This is also another total fallacy. The law expressly makes
copyright and other civil violations statute of limitations run from
the date of DISCOVERY of the violation, not the date of the
violation. Worse, there is no place to “register the complaint.”
There is a bunch (and with paid help it can be expensive) of stuff
you’ll need to do and document very careful and eventually get to the
point of filing a law suit… Will it be worth the time and effort
just to get there? Only very rarely, very rarely.
This is my first Ganoksin entry. I LOVE this forum and find that I learn so much.
Unfortunately what you don’t yet understand is that everything you
hear/read IS NOT correct. Your friend was NOT a reliable,
knowledgeable, source of Many posters on this forum are
NOT reliable, knowledgeable sources of Luckily, many
are! But it is always YOU (meaning any specific reader) that must
sort the wheat from the chaff. There is a reason I NEVER tell anyone
how to solder or set stones or…, “It is better I be thought
ignorant on those subjects than open my mouth and remove all
doubt…” But, of course, I’m knowledgeable enough, and smart enough,
and secure enough that I can freely admit my ignorance of the vast
majority of facts actually known to man and only contribute when I
KNOW I KNOW, not just because I heard something that I can jump in
and repeat.
And welcome to the forum, if you wish----and you make the
effort—you WILL learn lots—and unlearn lots too sometimes.
It’s not that photos aren’t a good idea. You OWN the copyright in
each of your works the instant it is in fixed form WITHOUT your
having to register it or record it or anything. But, of course, what
you can satisfactorily, to a judge or jury, “PROVE” (makes no
difference what the actual facts are) for your dates and works is
important. However a long chain of consistently documented and
witnessed photos and other contemporary records (even $45
copyright registrations with the Library of Congress if you feel the
business case is warranted—or you need to bring that law suit) or
your works will be a far more powerful tool in court than some false
hope that you can spring forth “the sealed envelope” at just the
right a-la-Perry-Mason moment… Perry Mason was FICTION. Fiction
with minimal effort at being realistic—the story, heroic win,
overcoming the odds, saving the day, tear jerking aspects were far
more important to book sales than reality. (And I loved everyone I
read and the few I saw on TV too!)
You can mine the archives and/or my web sites and the sites they
link to for far more on the copyright (not to be mixed up with
trademark) subject.
James E. White
Inventor, Marketer, and Author of “Will It Sell? How to Determine If
Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable (Before Wasting Money on a
Patent)” Info Sites: www.willitsell.com www.inventorhome.com,
www.idearights.com www.taletyano.com www.booksforinventors.com
Take photos of your original designs. Mail each photo separately to yourself using registered mail. Do not open the letter when you receive it. If you have to go to court, you have the dated, registered envelope with the photo of your work inside. It is only opened by the judge.
I believe this is a common misconception and an urban myth. And it
doesn’t make sense – what’s to stop me from mailing myself an
envelope everyday, and at any later date steaming it open, putting
photos in it, and resealing it?
Just keep a diary with photos or/and drawings, and if you think a
particular piece/line of work is especially worth protecting,
register your copyright on this/these pieces for additional legal
protection.
C.Rose
Houston
Daniel,
With the amount of arts support in this country, IMHO, an "artist" chooses to starve in today's society. With the number of institutions offering (business) courses to anyone willing to take them, it's incomprehensible to me that anyone starting a small business doesn't take advantage of them and first find out what's involved. Run your business properly, stay ahead of the curve, don't depend on one design and you'll do fine. Ignore proper business procedures, get stuck in a rut, and blame everyone else for your bad luck and you'll be one of the statistics.
You are quite right that most small businesses fail due to lack of
business acumen, planning, and execution. That’s a point I’d never
argue. However, the “walmartization of business” in America has
definitely made the business environment MUCH less friendly to small
businesses in general. In fact, even very savvy small/independent
businesses may NOT “do fine.”
It is unfortunately common in today’s environment for a cut-rate
chain store (which is what this competitor sounds like from the OP’s
description) to move into an area and undercut independents through
predatory pricing, outsourced production, etc. They offer merchandise
incredibly cheaply (selected through various spying tactics) that is
just different enough that they can beg fair competition and avoid
copyright infringement lawsuits… or they may be offering
merchandise that is far insuperior in quality to the educated eye but
is flashy enough to fool the general public. The prices the chain
sets are well below their cost when they are penetrating a market,
supported by the profits from another area where they’re already
established. The end result is the same. The independent cannot
price fairly for their work and cannot market effectively in that
environment to enough of an audience to compete and remain in
business. Once the chains have driven the independents out of an
area, they’re free to raise their own prices and limit their own
offerings to increase their profit margins, and they start the cycle
again in the next targeted community.
I would love to see independents (bookstores, bakers, coffee shops,
jewelers, clothing stores, grocers, whatever!) stand up to these
guys wherever possible and not roll over meekly and allow it to
continue. When you see a walmart-wannabee trying to develop
him/herself in your town, don’t do anything to make it easier for
them! Call them on it. Raise consumer awareness, because it is the
consumer who will lose in the long run. Look at your own personal
buying habits and figure out whether they are supporting this trend.
That was the point I was trying to make. It’s something that I feel
passionate about (obviously) and that I feel is going to seriously
injure the diversity of the arts market (and other markets).
Karen
No Limitations Designs
Hand-made, one-of-a-kind jewelry
www.nolimitations.com
Karen,
Believe me, you couldn’t pay me to shop at Wal Mart. IMHO they are
one of the worst companies in the world.
However, small independent jewelers who make their own jewelry
should not be impacted by the chain stores as long as they can market
themselves correctly and stay ahead of the curve. Pricing is not an
issue. Let me repeat that. Pricing is not an issue. Price only
becomes an issue when you are selling the same thing as everyone else
is. If someone can go across the street and buy the same Rolex as
you’re selling for $100 less then pricing is an issue. But if you’re
making something no one else has, or making it in a way far superior
to everyone else, and you market it properly, pricing is not an
issue.
You know, along with some of my more fun stuff I have to sell stuff
that is a little more traditional too. I sell a series of
“anniversary” type bands with diamonds bead set in them. So, you
think, someone could get that anywhere. You’re right. But what I put
into mine (even when they are down at the.02 ct. range) are ideal cut
diamonds, and all of them are D-E-F color and VS or VVS clarity. Now
where else are they going to find that? Maybe Tiffany’s, but they
certainly aren’t going to be any cheaper than me.
There has also been a thread in the last few days about a jeweler
who gained the trust of a radio announcer who is promoting his store
all over the place. That’s the other thing that small jewelers can
offer: trust. You can’t get that in a chain store with a bunch of
salespeople who have no interest in your future. People do recognize
these differences in businesses.
Your original comments were about companies stealing designs and
driving people out of business. You can’t blame Wal Mart, or their
ilk, for that. They just buy and sell. No creativity involved. If
you’re an even halfway decent jeweler/designer and you don’t let
yourself get too stagnant in designing, the only reason you should go
out of business is because you don’t know how to run the business. I
remember back during one of the really bad periods in Detroit (can’t
remember when, but it was during one of the general national economic
downturns that had impacted the automobile industry dramatically),
that there was a jeweler there who was buying every piece of Berndt
Munsteiner’s carved gems that he could get his hands on and selling
them like there was no tomorrow. Here was a guy, in the middle of a
completely depressed economic area, who was selling carved amethysts
for thousands of dollars every day Why? Because he differentiated
himself, believed in what he was selling and got out and hustled.
That is what it takes. Do that and you’ll thrive. (For those of you
unfamiliar with his work, Munsteiner carved a lot of really cheap,
generic material into beautiful creations and sold them for an
extremely hefty price–he kind of started the whole carved gemstone
market—and incidentally despite being copied by large Asian
producers, managed to keep ahead of the curve and stay in the
business all of his life).
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
to all- there are all sorts of emotionally valid opinions being
expressed on the competition spying thread. what comes to mind for me
is the woman who owns the " mother and child " designs. i had and
misplaced a magazine article that featured her fight to keep the "
mother and child " design perhaps there is somthing in the orchid
archive already about her and her success with getting "judgements"
in court or if someone on the list knows this person perhaps she
would be kind and help us out with a Q&A what i remember reading
about these copywrite infringement suits was she has created some
solid precedents for future cases that can help any of us wanting to
protect ourselves - any takers on this one ?.
best regards goo
I believe this is a common misconception and an urban myth. And it doesn't make sense
Actually it is a fact. Any document sent via the USPS becomes a legal
instrument once it has been canceled and gone through the US govt.s
system. It is in the same league as the illegality of opening someone
else’s mail, or using the mail to commit fraud…or sending an NSF
cheque through the mail…all illegal, and all absolutely factual
American civil law code…one’s lawyer must cite the code though for
it to be considered in a court of law…If a mail piece is just
introduced as evidence it’s efficacy is reduced.
R.E.Rourke
I believe this is a common misconception and an urban myth. And it doesn't make sense -- what's to stop me from mailing myself an envelope everyday, and at any later date steaming it open, putting photos in it, and resealing it?
If you send it certified, it is stamped and sealed by the post
office and can’t be steamed open. What stops one from post dating a
diary?
I would love to see independents (bookstores, bakers, coffee shops, jewelers, clothing stores, grocers, whatever!) stand up to these guys wherever possible
The thing is, you can’t compete directly. But you can do what they
cannot or will not. Most of us are probably not making the kinds of
things sold in megachains. We’re independents because we have a
different view of jewelry. Call it art, call it custom or call it
designer. Its not about price, its about the piece and/or the
experience. There are a great many clients who are specifically
looking for that not easily defined experience of supporting the
arts, indulging in personal desire, acquiring that special something.
Target those people. Take care of them and they will certainly take
care of you. They are the ones with the disposable income that you
wish to become your income.
I’ve seen here numerous times, people looking for the cheapest price
on tools or stones or whatever. I wonder if that same ‘price only’
mindset may work against jewelers sometimes. After awhile it may
affect your perceptions of what it is that your clients want. Its
human nature to project our own values upon others. But its wiser I
think to fill your customers’ real desire rather than what you may
believe is their desire. Admittedly this is a hard thing to figure
out.
Just keep a diary with photos or/and drawings, and if you think a particular piece/line of work is especially worth protecting, register your copyright on this/these pieces for additional legal protection.
I once worked in a research environment. Everyone kept what were
called “engineering notebooks” - bound notebooks with quadrille
pages to help with drawings. We signed them daily, and periodically
they were certified (I think by a notary public.) When full, or at
some significant point (patent application, for example), they were
microfilmed and archived.
Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ
I believe this is a common misconception and an urban myth. And it doesn't make sense -- what's to stop me from mailing myself an envelope everyday, and at any later date steaming it open, putting photos in it, and resealing it?
Whether it is true or not doesn’t really matter. We should all file
our copyrights the correct way, directly with the government, paying
the filing fee.
Elaine
http://www.CreativeTextureTools.com ™
Hard to Find Tools for Metal Clay
If you send it certified, it is stamped and sealed by the post office and can't be steamed open. What stops one from post dating a diary?
The entry in a diary is part of a larger context. It is not just one
entry. The diary a series of entires. It would be easy to go back a
create a single back dated entry or design. But to create a realistic
diary is a massive amount of work.
Many engineering or lab notebooks are bound and have numbered pages.
This makes it almost impossible to add or remove pages. On going
notes provide a history of your designs and work.
I have seen attempts to recreate records and paper trails in
corporate environments. It takes massive amounts of work and
research to make the records “correct” and look right. All the
histories have to agree for the record to be true. They always seem
miss details when recreating, i.e. someone off on vacation and
signing off designs at the same day.
I believe this is a common misconception and an urban myth. And it doesn't make sense
Sadly, it is statements like this that make history get re-written.
This is a fact - not an urban myth and not bad sense. Mail still acts
as a federal legal umbrella in the sense that it is illegal to open
anyone’s mail and it can be introduced as evidence in legal matters,
plain and simple.
One person’s opinion is not a direct path to the truth. It takes
many to offer it.
All the best,
Suz Andreasen
From the US Copyright Office:
I've heard about a "poor man's copyright." What is it? The
practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is
sometimes called a "poor man's copyright." There is no
provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of
protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what
From Snopes (the “urban legend” people):
Not in the U.S., but it might be of some assistance in
Britain.
http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp
Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ
This is not a legal advice, so do not act on it without consulting
an attorney.
It is one thing to author something, it is something else to be able
to prove it in the court of Law.
Registration with the Government entity makes proof easy, but
legally is not required. Without registration, one must present
evidence which would be acceptable in court, and that may prove
difficult.
hmmm… Why not just go and spy on them? Isn’t that what we are
really doing when we read publications about the jewelry industry,
gathering intelligence? Should we all just live in ignorance?
Bruce D. Holmgrain
JA Certified Master Benchjeweler