In my personal experience, having a mentor and learning from them
can make a tremendous difference. I am also a believer in a sort of
cross-pollination; learning skills from several teachers, workshops,
or studios to get a broader view of design, work style and
techniques.
So John, my apologies if I have offended as that was not my intent. I just feel that sincere students deserve far better than the short shrift you are giving them.
Probably the most thoughtful posts I’ve read on the topic, Frank. As
for offense or “being right” - I’m not right, don’t intend to be,
it’s not an argument. If I were to say I’m smarter than that I’d
probably be accused of ego… Certainly no reason to apologize.
I’ll take a sidebar and say that I don’t apologize for my thoughts -
we’ve (me, more) had a death in the family and perhaps I’ve been a
little cranky of late, in tone. For that I do apologize, if it’s
called for.
The smarter than that part is that I don’t actually mean it all
precisely - not saying it’s a lie, either. It’s to widen the
perspective, cause people to pause and think a bit about the depth of
it all. It’s a big world out there - it’s a BIG jewelry world out
there, and I just had the feeling there were some/many who don’t
really see the vastness of it all and the possibilities. The Faberge
Royal Eggs were made by genuine official human beings, just like you
and me.
To All, I am in total agreement with those who work past the
labels…I’ve been called many things–including metalsmith,
goldsmith, silversmith, jeweler, teacher, caster etc. Back when I
first started as a commercial jeweler (meaning full-time earning my
living) I was told I wouldn’t make it because I had two strikes
against me. I was a “woman” and I wasn’t “Jewish”… Well, I wasn’t
going to change and found a job that taught me from the ground up.
Although I have taught adult education for over 30 years and have
been a guest lecturer at CCA in casting, I feel that I should still
be labeled a student in some respects because I am still on a path to
learn more in my craft. There isn’t a day that goes by that I learn a
new trick or have my head opened up to accept some more knowledge.
Does it matter how I got it?? Not to me. I prefer a hands on and am
very lucky to work around many craftspeople that can show me–I am a
visual learner. (including of course John D. )…My students even show
this old dog some new “tricks”…So, there I said it–forget about
labels !!! Just continue on your path and keep growing…
P. S. The student that John mentioned in his post is/was a very
talented person at the college but didn’t utilize all the
oppurtunities that were available–to me what a waste! CCA gives it’s
students a complete BA with emphasis in- Metals… Their shop &
teaching staff are some of the finest available. I have gone to
senior shows that blow your mind !!! It is just so defeating to know
that the person we mentioned will not be able to go back & recapture
this opportunity. This person was not ready for the outside world.
Tempus Fugit… Ciao & soon to be eating some of New Mexico’s
finest food,
Jo-Annn Maggiora Donivan
http://www. donivanandmaggiora. com
"Art Jewelry". It said that the genre is thriving in Europe, but has never taken off in America. Which is true, of course. Here in America it's a shrinking market. The reason they gave was the apprenticeship tradition in Europe - of course that doesn't make it true, but to me it rings true.
exactly about the apprenticeship, however it isn’t as easy to get
into, years ago I went around trying to get to work in a jewelers
shop, my school friend worked the counter (OK a LONG time ago) and I
begged her to get me a job there doing anything, it never happened,
all his kids ( we are free labor as my father said) were busy in the
back and they guarded it all ferociously. Nepotism is prevalent
here, I’d sweep someones shop for a chance. there aren’t schools
close enough to me for any training, and I cannot travel; daily (2 yr
old) but if only there was a way for me to find someone who would
just work with me in ANY metal work copper, seems to be coming
stronger in the market. I have no clue how an apprenticeship works in
the jewelry trade, but finally my daughter the US vet is moving back
here to stay with her daughter whom I have been raising, and it looks
like I can have some freetime, my finger is ok, so I am ready to go,
at least a little further in this.
I was taught and never really thought different that a goldsmith was a master of the techniques of the jeweler including bench, casting, and finishing; the metal type that is being worked doesn't matter. The silversmith was a master of the techniques of forming metal through three dimensions using an anvil, stakes, and hammers; again the metal type doesn't matter.
I was also under the same impression Daniel. For me it is that
simple. There are obviously different levels of competency in
goldsmithing and silversmithing, but their definitions seem quite
simple.
Helen
UK
I love working with a torch, and after 30 something years have gotten
pretty good at it. I may never be a master goldsmith, but I am not a
hack either… Knowing what you can do well is a key to being
successful. Making a piece of jewelry to the best of your skills,
well, it makes getting up and going to work 5 days a week fun So have
fun and make a living at something you love.
Janine in Redding California
it is better if other people call you a goldsmith than if you do
goo, I think it’s entirely appropriate to call yourself a goldsmith
especially if you work primarily in gold. On the other hand calling
oneself an artist is bestowing what is essentially an ‘honorific’ on
oneself; something akin to boasting. Anyone else’s opinion could
differ.
This seems like a pretty sad commentary on our society when it’s more
important to have a piece of paper that says you took some classes,
than to have the experience to pass on that’s invaluable! Just
imagine what those students lost out on by not having James as a
teacher!
Hi James:
What I meant by ‘eventually you’ll end up teaching’ was more along
the line of what most of us do heRe: share. Eventually, we all end
up sharing what we know, one way or the other. (As you’ve so clearly
done, both in book form, and personally.) Sometimes it’s formal,
sometimes it’s not, but the best of it always has sharing at the
root. (Sometimes, as you’ve discovered, it’s too bl**dy formal, but
that’s a discussion for another day. (remind me to tell you about the
Cass and the closet dwelling copying lathe…))
Don’t let the bureaucrats discourage you. You have much to share, and
many people who will appreciate your effort. Nevermind the
formalities. (Besides, if you don’t do ‘formal’ classes, you’ll
never have to hear “the torch ate my homework”. Adults who want to
hear what you know are vastly more fun to work with than college
students who’re just filling out a requirement.)
Regards,
Brian Meek.
Its safe to say if your skills have produced over one million
dollars you are a goldsmith.
I had an "AHA" moment the other day..... This comes ultimately from a recent thread, but it's not a continuation of it, really.
Interesting perspective, John. Got me to thinking, as this is the
kind of thing I’ve been tinkering with since grad school. If by
“stamps” you mean something like templates, I think you’re on to
something. I’d like to offer a model I’ve used. Imaging a computer
program with nested menus. The main menu has three things. Melting,
deforming, and carving. Under melting is casting, soldering, fusing,
etc. Under deforming is forging, drawing wire, rolling stock,
bending, etc. Under carving is engraving, sawing, filing. Think of a
saw blade as a series if little chisels, a file similarly, a bur, a
rotary arraignment of blades, a graver a single blade. So there are
several templates involved in a single act such stone setting, You
carve the seat with a bur, you deform the metal to close in on the
stone. You’ve already melted the solder to join the head or bezel to
the article. Perhaps you’ve made the article using casting,
fabrication, more melting of solder, more deforming.
And all these templates have relationships, gathered together into
sets, like little sub-programs, to accomplish what you are intent on
doing. But finally, I’d like to insert my overview here:
Everything is about structure! Sometimes it’s obvious, sometimes
it’s subtle, but it’s always there, making everything hum together
or… ?
You can look at yourself this way too, you operate within the
templates of your creativity, your emotions, your memories, your
hopes, your loves. My point is, like a computer program, the
templates have to flow, to integrate, to operate together towards an
end.
Structure is the essence of design, in nature, in art. Complexity is
what drives the universe, from the sub-atomic level up to the most
complex organisms. It’s in the laws of thermodynamics. Rules, like
the program in the movie, “The Matrix”. Can you bend these rules?
Rules are templates too. Can you break them? Extend them? But most
important, you are part of this vast structure called reality. What
you eat for breakfast, what you dream, what you accomplish, how you
treat the people around you, it all has the potential for “elegance”
in it’s structure, and that is where beauty comes in.
Happy goldsmithing!
David L. Huffman
James- For years I regretted not getting a college degree. I studied
at the University of Oregon under the great Max Nixon. I just never
bothered with too many other classes and never got that piece of
paper. I knew that I’d want to teach when I retired. I also knew that
no one would hire me at an institution. So after nearly 40 years and
my hands going bad, I started teaching privately in our studio.
I love it. I charge $100 per day. If I want to go visit my grand
daughter for a week or so, I just tell our students that we’ll be
gone. I don’t have to go to faculty meetings or deal with university
politics. No “Focus Groups”. I don’t have to wear a mask and gloves
when I handle acids. I can tell off color jokes. I can choose who I
teach and when we go to lunch.
Thank goodness I didn’t get that degree after all.
Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
Jo Haemer
www.timothywgreen.com
kevin -
On the other hand calling oneself an artist is bestowing what is essentially an 'honorific' on oneself; something akin to boasting. Anyone else's opinion could differ.
thanks for this as it was sort of my point said in simplistic
fashion why else would we need a degree’s from universities ? or why
would someone not merely memorize all the needed to be a
GEMOLOGIST and then bestow the title on yourself with out the
certificate from an accredited source ?
goo
There are people who will take classes all their lives and possibly never be confident enough or good enough to be a "goldsmith" (I'm beginning to hate that word). Then equally, there are people out there (including many on this list) who are intelligent enough and determined enough to teach themselves. Those in the latter group don't need someone else to tell them why something went wrong, or what to do next. We have to learn quickly. Some of us ARE capable of working out our own paths.
Yes, some of us out here out of neccessity, HAVE to use books and
videos, because we have no other way to learn, if there were someone
close enough to me, I would jump on it like a duck on a june bug.
I havent seen an approach of the degrees of smithing. it was touched
on, but smithing, the level you are at in it is what defines your
progress, An apprentice smith, is still a smith just an inexperienced
one, whereas a journeyman or an expert or artisian, have higher
levels of smithing, right? this is a centuries old term that has a
centuries old tradition, in training whether its metal or stone and
even electrical.
This type of question seems to have come up before in various forms.
Personally, I was told at a school (Fashion Institute of Technology,
a NY college, has a jewelry program) that a goldsmith makes jewelry
using various metals, including, but not limited to gold. I assumed
with their years of experience that they knew more than me and thus I
could call myself a goldsmith. However, I freely admit to being a
student/novice/inexperienced/etc. goldsmith and will never, given my
age and disabilities, become an expert, master or any other similar
term.
When using the experts as a standard no one on Orchid seems to
remember in these posts that even an expert goldsmith had to begin
somewhere, and that somewhere is probably closer to me than where
they are right now. I’m just asking that you not agree with the
argument that someone is not a goldsmith because they are still in
the early stages of becoming. Saying that, I am open to changing my
designation if I hear a better argument.
Mary Partlan
White Branch Designs
WOW, I mean, WOW! I read all the discussion in this thread, and I
wonder, DOES IT MATTER what we label ourselves or how we are labeled
by others? It is such a personal thing. But then I read so many posts
here and I realize that it IS an HUGE issue for some folks, and all I
can think is WOW.
I work in gold
I work in silver
I work in copper
I work in brass
I blow GLASS
I cut stones
I string pearls
I even do some beading.
I had an AHA moment during my education in which I really learned
that I AM an ARTIST, when one of my pieces that I had poured my soul
into actually earned a buck. It was not that it was purchased; it was
that it was held in high regard by others.
I am One Artist who works hard to learn new skills, practice old
ones till I get them perfect, teach myself many skills that I did not
get to do in college, challenge myself to new heights when I design a
piece and then have to figure out how to create it in whatever
material I choose to use; and I wonder why there is such an argument
here.
But I sure enjoy the writings of so many others here, you make me
think, and thinking is GOOD!
thats a sad situation…when i was going to college in calif eons
ago they would hire top notch people in there field…a degree was
not needed as long as you was a exspert of sorts in that field…
michele
It would be really tedious if I had to say “I’m a silversmith,
coppersmith, lapidary, stamp maker.” “Jeweler”, itself, just does not
cut it. And frankly I’m not sure I’m good enough to be a “jeweler”.
“Jewelry Artist”, yes.
TL Goodwin
A whole bunch of trades, now Jewelry Artist.
But, this isn’t about me…
journeyman or an expert or artisian, have higher levels of smithing, right?
There is no designation of journeyman goldsmith in the U.S. It would
be a meaningless term as there is no criteria to date.
There is a program through the Jewelers of America to get
certification, you can see what skill are required at what level, and
decide if you can can yourself a “jeweler”, and you can determine if
you meet the criteria, and if you feel you can use their definitions
if you have not studied and accomplished the skills they set forth.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver