James’ comments ring so true and only serve to emphasise so much of
what is wrong with education systems in many countries.
The paper qualification is more important to the system than the
practical, hands on training and life experience skills.
The old adage 'those who CAN, do. Those who can’t, TEACH!
It’s a sad indictment.
Jane Walker
thanks for this as it was sort of my point said in simplistic fashion why else would we need a degree's from universities ? or why would someone not merely memorize all the needed to be a GEMOLOGIST and then bestow the title on yourself with out the certificate from an accredited source ?
In Germany you take classes and study to be a goldsmith, then you
apprentice, then you open your own atelier (workshop). Please
consider why some people on this forum don’t know what to call
themselves or understand the difference between bench jeweler,
silversmith,or goldsmith, or art jeweler(?).
A person who graduates college in the U.S. with a degree in
metalsmithing is not a goldsmith, jeweler, or silversmith. I employ
two recent graduates of state college, degree in metalsmithing, and I
am in the process of teaching them what they did not learn in
college.
If you do not understand what I am talking about, go to
http://www.zadkine.nl/smartsite16976.html
and read the fifth paragraph.
Plumbers and electricians start as apprentices and train to move up.
Doctors do an internship.
“Apprentices usually begin at about 50 percent of the wage rate paid
to experienced pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters.
Wages increase periodically as skills improve. After an initial
waitingperiod, apprentices receive the same benefits as experienced
pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters.”
Seems like they have something worked out to know what they do, what
it is called, and what they call themselves. Meanwhile over the many
years I have been on Orchid, this subject comes up time and again,
and it is clusteracious. (Polite way of saying cluster ****.)
No clear agreement or understanding of jeweler, silversmith, art
jeweler, bench jeweler, or goldsmith. So if some of the people who
make a living using precious metal do not know what to call
themselves, what does the general public learn to call the different
levels of skill and craftsmanship?
I am primarily self taught working in silver. I applied for a job in
Beverly Hills, Calif., just off Rodeo Drive.($$$$) I was handed a
piece of gold and told what to do, took about 10 minutes of starring
at the gold and then at the rolling mill to realize I was
incompetent. I had never seen a rolling mill before. Becoming a
Gemologist requires studying and passing tests, which if you do not
pass you do not graduate. When you graduate you receive a diploma.
Like what you receive from a jewelry manufacturing course. You learn
all the terms, and then you need to have someone teach you how to
apply what you learned about. There are no standards or criteria to
meet to become a goldsmith in the U.S. You just call yourself one if
that’s what suits your need, and I think that is the point. If
someone comes into my store, I can make a wax, cast and finish, I
can fabricate parts and set the gems, repair about anything, and if
something is beyond. my capability, I know who can do what I can’t.
My customers tell me I am their jeweler. When I introduce myself to
new customers, I call myself a goldsmith, sometimes I show my work
and say that particular work is art jewelry.
No customer has ever had an issue over 25 years with how I present
myself.
So it does not matter that much. You cannot violate FTC laws by what
you call yourself.
So it really is about what you are comfortable living up to that
determines what you call yourself. In my opinion.
Richard Hart G.G.
Jewelers Gallery
Denver
Hi James,
I’m not surprised at your impressions of the school system and
teachers. Since I retired a few years ago I have been spending a half
day or two each week at the local primary school my grandson attends
as a ‘class helper’. Admittedly this is only with very young children
but it has brought me into contact with a number of 'supply teachers’
who have tales of their experiences and frustrations in the secondary
school system.
Our society has unfortunately fallen into the morass of over
regulation where each day’s ‘teaching plan’ is laid out by a
government department and understanding of the content and reasons by
the teachers does not appear to be a prerequisite so long as they
have the necessary teaching certificate and have been on all the
’continued professional development’ courses… This system works
Ok for the small section of the class who are of 'average’
intelligence and are willing to work but leaves the more intelligent
ones bored and the less intelligent ones floundering and falling
further and further behind. Fortunately, the school I work in takes a
more enlightened view of the regulations and uses them more as
guidelines, otherwise teaching the younger end of the school would be
unworkable. As it is there is a great dependence on non-teaching
staff and parental helpers as, in a typical young-end class, the 30
children will be split into five groups all doing different things on
a rotation basis while the teacher is tied up doing individual weekly
assessments of each child!
The other problem is that, in some areas, we have unfortunately
acquired the transatlantic predisposition towards litigation. One
local school which I used to do some work with and which was situated
in a poor neighbourhood had a real problem for a while with
representatives of one of the ‘no-win-no-fee’ solicitors companies
standing in the road on the approach to school stopping parents as
they left school with their kids and asking them if the child had
fallen in the playground or other wise hurt themselves at school and
encouraging them to look for reasons to sue the school! With these
kinds of immoral practices becoming common, there is no wonder that
teachers run scared of laying themselves open to any accusations,
whether real or imagined. At that particular school, the teachers
were expressly forbidden to have ANY physical contact with the
children and so, if a 4-year old fell in the playground and hurt
itself, rather than getting a comforting cuddle from a carer, it
would be instructed to sit alone on a chair until it felt better…
What is our society coming to??? As a parent and grandparent I find
this situation abhorrent and think it is very sad that the unthinking
majority allow such a system to exist because of a very, very tiny
depraved minority.
Having said all this - and ranted on for far too long (sorry) - you
should not give up the idea of teaching entirely. You have a wealth
of very valuable experience which will be lost if you don’t pass it
on and it is you duty to try to do so despite our education system…
Have you considered running ‘home workshops’ privately or offering to
work with local interest groups where you will find the pleasures of
working with enthusiasts or maybe you could consider offering your
expertise to the scouts, guides etc. Not only will they benefit and
maybe become inspired to take up the profession themselves, but you
will get all the benefits of working with youngsters - doing so
certainly helps to keep me young and in-touch with reality…
Good luck,
Ian
Ian W. Wright
Sheffield UK
Thanks for your honest insight into the nitty-gritty of politcs. Your
credentials are spotless, but politics and beaurocracies are
definately in need of housekeeping more than they deem necessary in
their infinite wisdom.
You are human despite your accomplishments and this is priceless to
humans…most readers here are human and your contributions are
treasured!
Alastair
WOW, I mean, WOW! I read all the discussion in this thread, and I wonder, DOES IT MATTER what we label ourselves or how we are labeled by others?
Not really, there is no government organization stopping anyone from
being business if there not approved to a certain standard of
competence. So you call yourself or anyone else whatever you wish.
There are no guilds that would do for mentioned either. Which is
probable a good thing, because either could be abused in a negative
manner.
I claim no titles, except on my income tax where it’s required. You
either make a living or you don’t. That is what I would prefer.
Jim
Jim Zimmerman
Alpine Custom Jewellers & Repair
On the other hand calling oneself an artist is bestowing what is essentially an 'honorific' on oneself; something akin to boasting. Anyone else's opinion could differ.
My opinion differs.
If I am a “Jewelry Artist” now, it’s only because I was an 'Artist"
long before I made Jewelry. My Art now is jewelry. I don’t feel I’m
boasting at all. Now If I had a Doctorate and called myself “Doctor”
I would be boasting. 
TL Goodwin
Jewelry Artist
Hello John Donivan!
The last sentences you wrote on your first post describe very well
what makes a goldsmith:
"I know how to use a file" is stamp collecting.. "I know how to shape and finish this project, for which I will use a file, for one thing." is craftsmanship....
It isn’t a long time ago i thought in English the word goldsmith
means jeweler (AE). But not least this threat shows me, there must be
a difference. Please, can you or someone else explain, why there are
a lot you, who don’t know, what to call oneself? It seems to me, i
don’t understand every word what was written in this threat.
Isn’t it that easy? When you fabricate jewelry like rings, brooches,
pendants, chains you are a goldsmith. When you fabricate things like
spoons, cans, plates or churchly appliances you are a silversmith.
In every case it doesn’t matter, if you use gold, silver, palladium,
platinum or what else. If you trade only with the finished goods,
you are a jeweler. I am wrong with this?
Mario
http://aurum-art.com/
Hello Deborah, and all,
I am wondering if you have searched your area for a local “Rock
Hounds” group? Many of the Rockhound groups also have individuals
that work in jewelry, and also have a nice little shop to offer a
place to work and some inexpensive workshops on jewelry making to go
along with the rock cutting. We have just such a group in ours, and
although they only have the basics, maybe 6 benches, Rolling Mill,
Kiln, torches, etc., they are very well outfitted for basic
smithing. You might try that avenue.
You may also think about beading clubs in your area. There is only
ONE bead store that has survived the economy here in Toledo, but
they offer a lot of classes on basic jewelry making as well as bead
stringing. I have seen the jewelry that has come from some of the
classes they offer, and some of it is way beyond beading and more
into the realm of stone setting.
If you DON’T have a group in your area, maybe think about starting
one? There are probably more people around you interested in
learning some jewelry arts that you could imagine. But if I were you
I would first search out a Rock Hound group or a beading club.
Good Luck!
Teresa
You know, I DO consider being an “Artist” an Honorific. You know
why? Because I feel HONORED when a client or a stranger even looks at
my work with admiration or even “like” and says, “Your artwork is
fantastic”.
It took that “AHA” moment for me to realize that I AM, and have
always been, an Artist. I worked on art for YEARS before going to
university for my degree. Is the work I made prior to my degree any
less art than the work I make now? I don’t think so at all! It is
less informed work, yes, but I made it with my artistic hands born
smug to some when people ask me what I am, or when I say “I am an
artist”? Well if it does nobody has ever told me so. Do I consider
the title “Artist” to be honorary? YES I DO! Do I think it wrong to
bestow it upon myself? NO I DON’T. I consider that I am proud to
count myself among so many artisans that can not imagine doing
anything else!
Ask anyone who just HAS TO CREATE, just HAS MAKE, just isn’t happy
doing anything else. Do they call themselves artists? I would bet
they do! I also say CONGRATULATIONS! Because being an artist is such
a part of being ME, and for most artists this is how it is. Is it
such an honorary that I should not call myself such, HELL NO, I say.
When I say I am an artist, I say it with pride and my head held
high. And I try my very hardest to make my work live up to levels the
I DEMAND, which is quite high indeed! I am a perfectionist as well,
so I am my worst critic, which I believe is true to most artisans out
there, as well.
what you dream, what you accomplish, how you treat the people around you, it all has the potential for "elegance" in it's structure, and that is where beauty comes in.
David, I like this attitude.
I found a suggestion in a Buddhist magazine that we each create a
mission statement for ourselves. Mission statements, as you may
know, are now getting shorter and shorter; that’s the current style
in writing them. So I wrote," I live and create in peace and beauty."
as my personal mission statement, and made a bracelet for myself to
remind me of it. This was an interesting exercise for me, one which
could always be done again as my mission changes. No need yet.
M’lou Brubaker
Minnesota, USA
http://www.craftswomen.com/M’louBrubaker
There is no designation of journeyman goldsmith in the U.S.
Not true. I have the silliest of certificates, from the state of
Oregon, that states I am. I once showed my journeyman card to a
potential employer and he said, “That’s great! I won’t hold it
against you.”
In 1975 I apprenticed for five years starting in a factory and then a
trade shop. I was a member of the International Jewelers Union Local
14. The State of Oregon Labor Council had oversight and a councilor
was assigned to me. Once a month I had to show documentation of how
many hours I had spent doing different tasks, i.e. piercing,
drilling, etc. The tasks and proficiency expected were set up by the
owners of the shops and union leadership, most of whom were master
goldsmiths. It was a really well rounded program. As far as I
understand I was the last certified Journeyman Jeweler / Repairman in
the state. The program was dissolved due to lack of funding at the
time I finished. Apprentices that followed were trained as
specialists at specific tasks and became very profitable. Like a
punch in a set of progressive dies. Of the people I know, the only
ones that became truly well rounded had to learn it on there own
time. The others were highly skilled specialists, but narrowly
experienced. I think it’s sad that this happened. I do not think
that my employer would have spent the money needed to train me if it
were not mandated by state labor laws. Perhaps I’m sentimental and
certainly not thinking of the bottom line.
“Art for art sake, money for God sake.” Ten CC.
Best regards, Kevin
An interesting thread…
I heard an interesting description the other day which rang so
true… “A craftsman looks outward and an artist looks inward” If two
people have the same skills, one makes jewellery for a client
according to their requirements, the manufacturer is a craftsman. If
the other person works without commission and makes a piece
according to their requirements, they are an artist…
Isn’t that more definitive of how we perceive ourselves?
I just love the notion of precious materials process engineer!
For all you folks agonizing over what to call your self - here is
another very descriptive high-tech title from aule’s blog.
Judy Hoch
Our society has unfortunately fallen into the morass of over regulation where each day's 'teaching plan' is laid out by a government department and understanding of the content and reasons by the teachers does not appear to be a prerequisite so long as they have the necessary teaching certificate and have been on all the 'continued professional development' courses.....
every word you said is true don’t apologize, I was a victim of the
school system before it started to fail and my children were victims
of the texas school system. One of the best school systems I know of
is in Cali, only because I am familiar with it due to having lived
there, there may be better but I do know, southern school system
leave a lot to be desired, having sadi this , I grew up in my
firstyears In Alexadria Louisiana and was lucky to be in a school
district, where I was in Home Ec and French in 7th grade, it is sad
education has deterioated to the level it has in the systems I am
familiar with. Being a victim of molestation I also find it sad that
physical touch is now taboo, and everyone and anyone life can be
destroyed in the blink of an eye
my 2 cents worth
Kevin,
As far as I understand I was the last certified Journeyman Jeweler / Repairman in the state. The program was dissolved due to lack of funding at the time I finished.
If you cannot tell me where one can get certified as a Journeyman
Jeweler, then I am correct. The past is… the past, and your story
is the first time in 30 years I have ever heard of a program like
the one you graduated from. There is no designation of journeyman
goldsmith in the U.S., at the present time. There ain’t no Union,
neither.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
At that particular school, the teachers were expressly forbidden to have ANY physical contact with the children and so, if a 4-year old fell in the playground and hurt itself, rather than getting a comforting cuddle from a carer, it would be instructed to sit alone on a chair until it felt better... What is our society coming to???
Yes, that is SO sad. I trained as a teacher a few years ago, and we
were told that under no circumstances should we ever touch a child,
even if they were upset, and that we should make sure we were never
in a classroom on our own with a child either. Schools are so
paranoid about being sued. It’s an impossible situation. While it’s
very sad for the four year old who has fallen over in the playground,
there are unfortunately streetwise teenagers, who would relish the
opportunity to sue a teacher for something they hadn’t done. It makes
for an extremely stressful situation.
I’m SO glad I’m out of teaching now. It was great when I had classes
with good kids, but most of my classes contained a fair few bozos who
just wanted to make trouble, and the senior management team were not
supportive of their staff, rather taking the “there, there, dear”
approach with the kids, no matter how nasty and vindictive some of
them were to members of staff - it made me very ill with stress.
Their approach was due to many of the kids being from very poor and
troubled backgrounds, but the truth of it was that those kids were
usually really nice, and responsive to a kind teacher. The ones from
priveleged backgrounds were the ones who caused all the trouble,
because they knew they could get away with it. Hooray for
metalsmithing!!! Perhaps teaching adults would be fun someday though,
as I do enjoy teaching those who want to learn.
Helen
UK
Gwen- I am going to politely disagree with you. We do custom work.
Our clients may have a stone or two that they want to use, or a
desired metal color, but when folks come to us it is with the
understanding that we will make what WE want to, for them. We have
the skills to make pretty much anything we want and do so. Our
clients know that we have a certain aesthetic sensibility and they
like our style which is why the come to us.
We both feel that we are “Jewelry Artists” even though we are
commercially skilled craftsmen and people give us money to do it.
Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
Jo Haemer
www.timthywgreen.com
Hello Mario Sarto,
You are right about what makes a Goldsmith. With a piece of paper
from the “Kunst & Werkschule” Pforzheim Germany stating that I
graduated a Goldsmith, because I make jewelry, and not vessels etc.
Yes it does not matter what metal you use to make jewelry, silver or
gold etc.
Don’t understand why it is so important to begin with. Is it that if
we call ourselves something that we are better than someone else,
e.g. I am a goldsmith versus I am a jeweler. Can’t a goldsmith not
also be a jeweler, or wise versa?
Plus we also have the distinction of Master Goldsmith, versus a just
Goldsmith. When my father came home finally in 1948 from the war, he
went and studied hard and became a Master Goldsmith. The only reason
he worked so hard and spend all this money, was because as Master
Goldsmith he could hire apprentices that he could teach in Germany,
otherwise he would have to hire a master in order to employ
apprentices. So is a Master Goldsmith better than a mere Goldsmith
of course not.
It seems to me that we as people always have to lift ourselves above
others, like I went to xyz college, university etc. Or like another
Goldsmith said to me, when I mentioned that we went to the same
school, yes but you went before it was a University. Oh well I hope
it made him feel good.
Why can’t we as goldsmith, silversmith, crafts people, artisans,
artists, not just recognize and admire what one does, what the work
looks like should be the most important thing.
Isn't it that easy? When you fabricate jewelry like rings, brooches, pendants, chains you are
We’ve been away on some family business - I gather this thread is
fairly done with…
My own intent in starting this thread was twofold:
What they taught you in college was likely not goldsmithing in
technique or method. Those who have actually worked in gold shops
know this. The thoughts about labels are interesting but not my own
intent. ANY smith needs to be intimately acquainted with the metal
itself, and you don’t get intimate with gold by working silver. I
would think that would be obvious…
I get bored, sometimes… Orchid is for everyone - I guess
there’s a thread about newbies and how to connect and some said,
"Just write it in…
…" Excellent advice… Sometimes Orchid is full of “How do I string
a sawblade?” threads and I just want to pump it up a bit. This time
is was all these people saying, “I’m self taught, I work in my
basement…” Nothing wrong with that, but you would think it was
the whole world if that’s all you heard here. I have a jewelry
factory in a mercantile building in downtown San Francisco…
So, if I might be a bit of an instigator at times, think of it as a
“Master’s Class” without me designating myself as the leader…
Everyone includes the non-newbies, too.
This particular one has been most interesting, I think…
Oh, by the way, we are all artists - jewelry is an art form.
Isn't that more definitive of how we perceive ourselves?
Not at all, and that’s part of the problem.
We are still left with the dichotomy of the practicing bench jeweller
who not only makes jewellery that he or she designed, but also
repairs pieces made by other artisans or even mass produced. Then we
have the interesting aspect of making a dozen of the same piece. At
which point do we begin to call this production rather than artistry?
Generally speaking, the bench jeweller is one of the most complex,
skilled and educated of all trades people. Part craftsman, part
artist, part alchemist, part sage and part scientist. Add a healthy
dollop of good old fashioned horse sense and you generally have a
mixture which will render not only a fine jeweller, but generally a
fine person. Anyone who lacks patience will soon find that jewellery
may not be the world for them.
If you were to suggest to the practicing woodworker that they look
“outward” because they are a craftsman, they would not only be
insulted but would most likely laugh in your face. Yes, it’s true
that they will make the same piece over and over again, but they
must also draw upon their skill and experience to develop new ways
of doing things, and new designs for their pieces. In this sense
they are very much like many bench jewellers. They are both
craftsman and artist. The metal spinner and wood turner are other
fine examples of this same dichotomy.
In any trade where you are not making parts to specification, such
as a machinist, you will always be using some part of your artistic
talents as well as your technical skills. Even then, I shouldn’t be
so quick to deride machinists as there are many that could be called
artists. By and large however, most of them are very skilled
tradesmen doing work to another persons designs.
We are left, still and again with the same question.
I for one think it’s fair to suggest that there isn’t a catch all
answer when it comes to the world that is jewellery. The truly
galling part of this is that you can be a goldsmith even if all you
ever do is make pieces based on someone else’s designs over and over
again. The truth of the matter is though that I don’t know if there
has ever been such a person. Or even if the “industry” could
accommodate such a narrow working path. Generally speaking, such
tedious and boring tasks are left to apprentices who will eventually
learn the skills the need to do everything someone at the bench is
called upon to do. Necessitating of course new apprentices.
So the cycle goes.
All the best,
Frank