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Torch System


#1

Hello
Has anyone used the smith little torch using a disposable MAPP with an oxygen R tank and regulator?
Thanks!


#2

I use 1 lb. disposable propane cylinders and an O2 generator. Runs my Little Torch and Meco just fine for what I do. The cylinders can be refilled if you want.


#3

Thanks rmeixner!


#4

Hi Melody,

Yes, this is my exact setup. I recently put a new dial regulator and valve on the 1 Lb MAPP Pro tank so I could set the torch pressure exactly. With the 1 Lb. regulators, you have to kind of guess at what’s right.

Anyway, is there something specific you’d like to know?

-Alec


#5

Hi Alec
Do you have pictures of your set up?
What kind of dial regulator are you using for the disposable Mapp and where did you get it?
So for oxygen are you using the R Tanks?
Thanks!


#6

Hi Melody,

Here’s a shot of my tanks and regulators. You need an acetylene regulator, not a propane regulator for the MAPP tank. The propane regulator’s pressure is too high. I bought mine at CyberWeld, Rio also carries it.

You also need a 1lb tank adapter, and a shutoff valve. The valve was tricky to find, and I finally found one on eBay. The same seller still has three. Search for: Western Enterprises 204 CGA 023 Valve Nut/Nip Xbody

Hope this helps.

Best,
Alec


#7

Between the valve and the red hose B nut is that a check valve or a flashback arrestor? It looks like a Western check valve which is not adequate in the event of a flashback – it will not prevent flame from reaching the fuel tank. You really should have combination flashback arrestor/check valves on both the fuel and oxygen connections…they will have a red stripe for fuel and green stripe for oxygen on them.

Ed Howard
Sales/Marketing Manager
G-TEC Natural Gas Systems
201 Dutton Avenue
Buffalo, NY 14211

1-800-451-8294
ehoward@gas-tec.com
www.safe-t-gas.com


#8

Thanks Alec
This has been very helpful!
I was going to ask about flashback arrestors also.
Melody


#9

Hey Ed,

Thank you. I recall when setting up my torch as a novice, the decision process of what to buy seemed like a can of worms. I bought the Smith, 23-1010P, and those are the Smith check valves came with that kit. Interestingly, Smith does not recommend using arrestors with the Little Torch. I understand and appreciate your safety concerns, however.

For reference, look at the April 6, 2016 Q&A under the Ask & Answer tab here:
https://store.cyberweld.com/smlito23prca.html

I’m going to drop Smith/Miller an email and ask for a more detailed explanation.

Best,
Alec


#10

Hi Alec,

The website at the link you posted says the following:

You can install flash arrestors on the Smith Little Torch Propane Caddy Jeweler’s Torch Outfit 23-1010P however Smith does not whole heartedly recommend it. You will have to use regulator mounted flash arrestors with built in check valves.You will not need the check valves that come in the kit. The flash arrestors will restrict gas flow . This will require using higher gas pressures then normal for the little torch which may effect torch operation performance and torch life

Customer Service

on April 6, 2016

You can install flash arrestors on the Smith Little Torch Propane Caddy Jeweler’s Torch Outfit 23-1010P however Smith does not whole heartedly recommend it. You will have to use regulator mounted flash arrestors with built in check valves.You will not need the check valves that come in the kit. The flash arrestors will restrict gas flow . This will require using higher gas pressures then normal for the little torch which may effect torch operation performance and torch life

Customer Service

on April 6, 2016

Here’s the problem…a check valve is only designed to prevent a higher pressure gas from going into the hose of a lower pressure gas…in this case usually oxygen flowing into the fuel gas hose. The problem with a flashback is that in addition to pressure you also have a 5,000 degree F flame that travels at 17 feet per second flowing toward the gas cylinder. A check valve has a thin metal flapper to stop gas flow but it will melt with the flame off the flashback. A flashback arrestor has a scintered filter which disperses the flame and extinguishes it.

Most flashback arrestors “use” about 1 psi (which is why you can’t put one on a standard utility natural gas pipe) so you’d bump gas pressure on the regulator by a psi to get the recommended pressure at the torch.

If you are using acetylene most likely you are using one of the smaller Little Torch tips, perhaps a # 2 or # 3 and these are easier to cause a flashback. It is easier to get a piece of metal in the tip opening to cause a reversal of gas flow…and if you get a spark in there too you have a flashback.

At G-TEC Natural Gas Systems we get calls from natural gas utilities where a jeweler has blown up their gas meter because they did not have flashback arrestors on their torches…they thought check valves would protect them.

It is a serious danger…you should put combination flashback arrestor check valves on your gas and oxygen lines.

Ed Howard
G-TEC Natural Gas Systems
ehoward@gas-tec.com
Office 1-800-451-8294
Cell 716-490-1766


#11

Hi Ed,

I don’t disagree at all with your opinion. I was simply curious about why Smith doesn’t recommend arrestors for the Little Torch. I wrote them yesterday and have already heard back.

They told me it’s a performance issue, that with the low pressures used by this torch, you might see movement or pulsing with smaller tips. They also said the American Welding Society recommends an arrestor somewhere in the system, and that Smith’s current manual makes the same statement.

They further stated that flashbacks occur when the operator doesn’t operate their equipment correctly follow the manufacturer’s manual for purging the lines, checking for leaks, and running at the correct pressure. But even knowing this, everyone makes mistakes on occasion.

As for me, I’ve ordered a pair of arrestors for my setup. :slight_smile:

Best,
Alec


#12

And, installed (thank you for noticing and commenting, Ed)…


#13

Good for you!

Did you change the pressure setting on your regulators or make any other changes as a result of installing the flashback arrestors? Did you notice any change in the flame on the torch?

Ed Howard
Sales/Marketing Manager
G-TEC Natural Gas Systems
201 Dutton Avenue
Buffalo, NY 14211
Office 1-800-451-8294
Cell 716-490-1766
ehoward@gas-tec.com

Visit www.gas-tec.com for industrial applications
Visit www.safe-t-gas.com for jewelry manufacturing and glass lampworking applications


#14

I have been using a Prest-O-Lite for years.
Do I need a flashback arrestor on this system?

MELODY ARMSTRONG


#15

I wanted to see how it performed with no changes so I left the settings as they were. My current project is using the #6 tip, so not terribly small, but I haven’t noticed any difference. No adjustments needed.

-A