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To-the-trade business prices


#1

I’d like to put together a price list to give to my retail customers
for my to-the-trade business, but I can’t afford a $400 book that
anyway seems to be set up for a retail store.

Is there anything available similar to what auto mechanics use to
help me put together a price list?

Is there anyone who is not in E. Tennessee (where I am) who would
want to share their price list with me offlist?

TIA


#2
Is there anything available similar to what auto mechanics use to
help me put together a price list? 

Check the Orchid archive of 09/21/2008. Brian Lewis suggested a xls
for repair prices. It may be a starting point for what you are
looking for.

https://orchid.ganoksin.com/t/here-is-a-repair-price-list

HTH


#3

Oh my, yes. David Geller has been producing an excellent pricing
guide for years.

Were I to go back into retail jewelry, it would be one of the first
things I’d have on hand. He’s an old member here and I’d be surprised
if he doesn’t respond. If you need his contact info please let me
know…

Wayne Emery
www.thelittlecameras.com


#4

Judging from some of your posts I’d guess you’ve been at this game
for awhile now? I don’t mean to sound flippant but why do you want
someone else to set your prices? You know how long it takes you to
size a ring for example and what the material costs might be. You
know how much work you can accomplish in an hour or a day.

Why not keep a log of your work time/costs, and figure a price
structure from there. A certain percentage of retailers will grouse
about price no matter what, another percentage will pay what you ask,
some will marvel at how low your prices are.

While of course you need to be mindful of your competition you also
should consider how valuable are tons of low/no profit work?

A guy once asked me how’s business. I said I was busy. He replied
yeah but are you making money? That started me thinking.

I’ll just add that if you go the low price way, you will be replaced
as soon as a cheaper alternative comes along. Go quality and they’d
have to find someone better. Harder to do.

imho


#5

And then there’s that guy Geller, who has a repair price book, CD’s
to train the staff, Quick List for simpler repairs. :slight_smile:

Andreas, check out this link to my web site. Our Geller’s Blue Book
to Jewelry Repair has 3000 + prices to do everything in a store from
sizing to complex custom designing. It was built with the same idea
of how the car industry does it

3 x markup on parts
4 x markup on labor

  • extra for self insurance on stones setting.

The prices are for a retail store. if you are a trade shop (many
trade shops have my book), charge the store 40-50%

http://www.jewelerprofit.com/catalog/item/1753739/5285962.htm

David Geller
Director of Profit
www.JewelerProfit.com


#6
The prices are for a retail store. if you are a trade shop (many
trade shops have my book), charge the store 40-50% 

I guess that works in San Francisco or LA or Miami, but here in the
technical vastness of flyover country we have to compete. In case
you haven’t noticed the economy is in the toilet. What do you expect
bench jewelers to charge to size a sterling ring down one size?


#7
I guess that works in San Francisco or LA or Miami, but here in
the technical vastness of flyover country we have to compete. In
case you haven't noticed the economy is in the toilet. What do you
expect bench jewelers to charge to size a sterling ring down one
size? 

I thought the same thing as you before I bought David’s book, that
the prices were to high. I quickly found out that David was
right–repairs are “trust” sensitive, not “price” sensitive. My
studio is located a lower income area, and following the price
structure in the “Bluebook”, not many people walked when I quoted the
price. I found that I was working the same amount and making a lot
more money…Teddy


#8

Norman

I guess that works in San Francisco or LA or Miami, but here in
the technical vastness of flyover country we have to compete. In
case you haven't noticed the economy is in the toilet. What do you
expect bench jewelers to charge to size a sterling ring down one
size? 

Your statement was “specific” for a generic question.

The question is “40% of what?”

So if the economy is in the toilet, did you lower your prices? I
assume you’re a trade shop and your business can be linked to the
retailers success. If they have less business, so would you, unless
you got more accounts.

If you’re a trade shop, your retailer marks up your prices.

Charging 40% of retail gives the retailer a 2.5 markup. 50% gives a
retailer a keystone markup.

To answer your question " What do you expect bench jewelers to
charge to size a sterling ring down one size?"

The answer is very simple. If it goes faster than sizing a gold
ring, charge less, if it goes slower than sizing a gold ring, charge
more.

Too many benchies think the customer can get the SAME service down
the street. I disagree. Do they have YOU down the street? Benchies
think customers buy diamonds by quality and price combined and that’s
true (called value) but when it comes to a repair or customer many
bencheis think its all about price.

So does the customer not consider quality?

the customer does. Most benchies don’t even think of it.

David Geller


#9
Your statement was "specific" for a generic question. The question
is "40% of what?" 

What? What does that mean?

So if the economy is in the toilet, did you lower your prices? 

No, they are the about same as they’ve been all year. I raised 'em if
anything because milk and bread and circuses cost me more.

I assume you're a trade shop and your business can be linked to the
retailers success. If they have less business, so would you,
unless you got more accounts. 

True.

If you're a trade shop, your retailer marks up your prices.
Charging 40% of retail gives the retailer a 2.5 markup. 50% gives
a retailer a keystone markup. 

If the retailer marks up my prices, how can I use his prices to
determine what mine should be? My head is spinning. I must give him a
price so that he can mark it up. All this talk about the mark-up
we’ll “get” doesn’t really help much. If fools with retail stores are
charging peanuts to do complicated repairs because they don’t
understand what’s involved, I won’t do what they want for 40% of
too-little.

To answer your question " What do you expect bench jewelers to
charge to size a sterling ring down one size?" The answer is very
simple. If it goes faster than sizing a gold ring, charge less, if
it goes slower than sizing a gold ring, charge more. 

Great. So since silver is more difficult to work with than is gold,
I can charge more for it? I don’t think so. Your “time” example
doesn’t work. I pay the same rent every month, the electric bills are
the same pretty much, in short, I have a fairly fixed outgo every
month. I should charge MORE if I can do something quickly and
correctly because I am worth more to the business than if I’m slow,
and more money will come in.

Too many benchies think the customer can get the SAME service down
the street. I disagree. Do they have YOU down the street? 

Yes, this is a good point and the only way I am able to charge what
I do, but when trying to attract new clients, people who didn’t find
me by the word of mouth of other retailers, they want a price list.
And I’m sorry. It’s going to be a hard sell for me to sell me and
you. I’m a jeweler not a salesman. I just want a client to have a
general guide, a list of my average prices. I guess I was trying to
discover an average price of basic repairs. Maybe I need to build a
survey.

Benchies think customers buy diamonds by quality and price combined
and that's true (called value) but when it comes to a repair or
customer many bencheis think its all about price. 

Price is a guideline we use to determine worth. I think diamond cost
me some amount and I can mark them up some amount. They are worth
whatever the buyer is willing to pay for them. How much should I
expect to mark up a 1 ct diamond that I buy on memo from Stuller?
The only service I’m providing is the ordering, receiving and
physically paying the bill from Stuller. The retailer can order the
diamond as easily as I can. Other then the minor risk I’m taking
buying stuff for the retailer, what is fair and competitive to
charge? Or should I not mark it up at all and be thankful I have a
diamond to mount?

So does the customer not consider quality? 

My customer? You mean the retailer? Yeah, he’s happy if his customer
is happy.

the customer does. Most benchies don't even think of it. 

What? We don’t think about quality? Dude, that’s what it’s all
about! We’re burning and cutting our fingers up to make metal and
rocks look beautiful. I dare say those jewelers on Orchid are all
about quality else we wouldn’t read and write all this stuff.

Noman


#10
My head is spinning. I must give him a price so that he can mark it
up. All this talk about the mark-up we'll "get" doesn't really help
much. If fools with retail stores are charging peanuts to do
complicated repairs because they don't understand what's involved,
I won't do what they want for 40% of too-little. 

I’m not going to involve myself much, except for a couple of
thoughts. We have a price list we use for common repair jobs (I’m not
inclined to share it, mostly because it’s individual to us a a major
client). I think it 's a little bizarre to think that a trade shop
should or would use some itemized method for the myriad jobs we need
to do. Ring sizings, retipping, sure. But to take apart an antique
ring trio, cut one of them and insert a setting, set the diamond,
resize, resolder together and final size, I don’t add up all those
tidbits, I say, “That’ll be $150.” The processes aren’t unique, but
the job in it’s entirety is. I make MORE money bidding a job like
that outright than I would by adding up all the individual details.

If there’s a budget involved, we work within that, and those things
are established from the start. Otherwise, we tell the store what
the price is, not vice-versa. What they do after that is of no
concern to me. I’d suggest everybody think in those terms,
especially dealing with galleries and consignments. They don’t tell
us what to charge, and I’d laugh them out of the place if they
tried.


#11

I mentioned yesterday charging stores a percentage of my price book.

Happily a few responded with “are you nuts!!”, which is great

A trade shop SHOULD devise their prices, give it to the retail store
and let the retail store mark it up.

But most trade shops are wimps, most are afraid if they charge 50
cents more than the competitor the retailer will drop them.

And some might, but if you stand out, are a “partner”, you’ll be
fine.

I find my price book, at a %% of retail raises the typically trade
shops prices.

For whatever crutch you need, use it.

David Geller
Jewelerprofit.com


#12
I don't add up all those tidbits, I say, "That'll be $150." 

I think Noman’s real problem is that of the counterperson not
knowing how to properly diagnose repair situations completely.

When you size a ring with a bazillion tiny stones, some are going to
loosen and there needs to be a charge for correcting that. The
loosening isn’t the jeweler’s fault, its a consequence of the owner
choosing to resize and of the basic structure of the ring.

Speak about sizing, probably 20-30% of sizing jobs really need a
half shank because they’re too thin. Or there are previous cracks. Or
half the prongs are shot(“you just sized this and three stones fell
out, our customer is upset, you must fix for free”, against a track
record of wanting the lowest price possible from the jeweler every
single time).

Yeah, I fire out a flat price too. You and I know almost by instinct
what stuff costs. But the counterperson may not have a clue. I think
the goal here is not to nickel and dime the owner, but to give the
retailer a system by which to quantify what’s involved so that he/she
charges correctly and the jeweler can make a living.

I don’t do trade work. But I have. And I have worked in stores where
sometimes the salespeople would show me almost everything and some
where they would not, or else management ordered that the salesperson
not leave the floor and the flannel shirt wearing jeweler was forever
banished in the back. (at one swanky place I wore a tie just to make
a nice showing when called out front. $60+ for a half decent tie and
you need at least 20 of 'em…overhead. But I closed some very nice
orders that way). I will say that its far better to fully evaluate
while the customer is still in the store. Calling back with an
estimate it becomes easier for the customer to back out because its
just a disembodied number on the phone. Close the deal right there
and then where the charge can be explained with the item right there
to refer to.

One problem with trade work is that sometimes the client gets the
notion that the contractor has to meet the retailer’s mis-quoted
price structure. As in, “well we’re only charging $25 to rebuild five
hinges so you have to do it for $8”. Or that the charge from the
jeweler somehow must be tied to the low value of an item or the
relationship the store has with the customer.

A system that’s fair, easy to use and results in a continueing
relationship that’s profitable for both.

no sweat


#13
But most trade shops are wimps, most are afraid if they charge 50
cents more than the competitor the retailer will drop them. And
some might, but if you stand out, are a "partner", you'll be fine. 

Very true. I pay more for one of my bench workers downtown because
he does an amazing job. Really tiny little solders that anyone else
would make a mess out of. I could get the same job done for 1/2 the
price but the job wouldn’t be as nice and it would take longer and
there would be more mistakes.

I also have two casters that I use. One is expensive, one is
inexpensive. Then why use the expensive one? Because he does
excellent work, really pretty clean castings and he sprues in a
place that’s not noticeable. The inexpensive guy would destroy some
of my more delicate pieces.

Sometimes paying more for good, quick service and a job really well
done is worth it.


#14
I also have two casters that I use. One is expensive, one is
inexpensive. Then why use the expensive one? Because he does
excellent work, really pretty clean castings and he sprues in a
place that's not noticeable. The inexpensive guy would destroy some
of my more delicate pieces. 

Amery not to quibble but 'expensive is not the word to use in the
case you describe. The caster charging less is ‘expensive’. The one
charging more is a ‘good value’.

KPK