Tips on sawing cursive letters as well as filing

Jewelry Discussion
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[quote=“Betty2, post:35, topic:54730, full:true”]
No. 2 on your list is my recommendation.No. 3 is the same thing except it’s an e-book.[/quote]

Awesome I will go and grab that today then!

LOL thank you, that is good to know!

[quote=“ScuffedShoes, post:36, topic:54730”]
Needle files come in various lengths.

There are two main differences between needle and escapement files. Escapement files are more finely cut than needle files. That is, a #6 escapement file has more teeth per inch than a #6 needle file. Also the belly, i.e., the cutting area, of a needle file is about the same length as the handle, whereas the belly of an escapement file is about 1/3 to 1/2 as long as the handle.

Escapement files also have handles that are square in section whereas needle files have round handles. Though this doesn’t really alter their function it is useful for telling them apart at the bench.[/quote]

Ahhhh thank you! Wow I am learning so much! I appreciate that!

[quote=“WADEDESIGNS1, post:37, topic:54730, full:true”]
I draw the letters on the piece by coating it with chinese white which is a white water color. Then I draw the letters with a sharp pencil. It is clamped in a vice so I can go over the pencil lines with a graver. This gives me a very precise line to follow with my saw blade and it can’t be smudged or torn like paper.[/quote]

OMG that is a great idea! My dad was super into engraving so I think I have everything but most of that is in storage, but the jeweler’s shed come with a bunchhhh of hand gravers so I’ve been toying around with trying engraving or at least putting a graver to metal and seeing what that is like. Dad had the microscope and the air compressor to drive his but those are in storage. Her are mostly just the hand ones. But now that I think about it, her stuff came with a foredom graver I think it is and also a few hammer handpieces and graver points and those I have in a box somewhere … so I might just give that method a try! I do watercolors so I have a few tubes of white on hand … I just add water and paint the metal white and let dry I assume?

I have a box full of scrap metal that dad was practicing engraving on, so I can play with some of that … I got a little pitch cup for holding the metal down in a GRS ball vise though I think my dad just glued metal to small pieces of wood that he then put into his ball vises - not sure what glue he used or how he removed it or what is the best way to hold metal for engraving though I want to get some thermolock someday.

Is Tap Con the name of the liquid lubricant that you use?

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
Hello Alyssa,

my teacher told me once…“you use the tool (grit/shape) that will give you the result you want”…he was so good at helping me to see the trees for the forrest!

get the Rio Grande Tool catalog and read it cover to cover! (fun, fun, fun!!!)[/quote]

Oh dear, I have both catalogs but like I tell the other half, I try not to look at them because I don’t have enough money to all be thumbing through those things all willy nilly! LOL!

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
basically it comes down to grit…and shape…sort of…

simplistically speaking, think of the range as going from a coarse cut metal file…to a super fine grit rouge on an unstitched balloon buff…and everything in between…

“basically” you have the grit:ie; the file teeth/cutie: the abrasive material like silicone carbide, aluminum oxide, and others (coarser grits bonded to paper like emery/ sand paper, or bonded into a shape like a grinding point).(finer grits formed into rubber wheels and points, all the way to grits suspended in oil or water based compounds like tripoli or rouge)[/quote]

Oh godfs don’tr get me going on polishing stuff - I have wheels and wheels and wheels of alllll sorts of things that I have no idea how to grade or what they have been used for (like all the stuff on the mandrels for both of them, dad I might be able to guess, but her, I have NO idea. And she bought like BOXES of sandpaper for barrel mandrels, but no idea the grits lol. I can figure those out though. Sadly it wasnt the radial bristles, LOLOL!

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
also, the speed of the rotary will affect action…the diameter of the wheel/ buff will also affect…also how worn the paper/ tool/ wheel/ buf is may affect action, etc…[/quote]

Am learning that! The buffer wheels with a wide diameter seem to leave less marks than the smaller ones on the flex shafts when polishing.

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
then you have the profiles/ shapes, presented in different ways:(that are either abrasive themselves, or carry the abrasive)ie: various wheels and points shapesie: various mandrels to hold sandpaper or buffs or brushes)ie various brushes (from metal fiber to soft fiber)ie: various buffs (from hard to soft) (the fiber used…stitched is firmer cut than unstitched…yellow treated is more aggressive than balloon cloth…and on and on)[/quote]

Man, I WISHHHH I could like just download ALL you guys brains into mine - would make this learning curve a lot faster to negotiate! LOLOL! Not complaining though - its time well spent! :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
so…you can have a “coarse” 320 grit sanding stick, that is very worn down…that will be less abrasive than a “finer” grit grinding stone…you will eventually be able to “feel” it cutting…sort of…

I would sit down with the files…organize them by length to start…then look at the handle and try to find the cut #…ie:2,4,6,8…and make separate piles for each…

then get some scrap metal and just file the edges…you will “feel” how the file cuts…[/quote]

OMG what a great idea! Thank you!

OMG NO! Have I been doing that?? I held off on using that thing for fear of hurting it with the files and then just got over that and was starting to use it (and its sooo nice!), but I could be hurting my precious files?? I invested in a couple of nicer ones before I realized how many I was winding up with.

Thank you SO MUCH for mentioning that - I will not be using them on the mitering vise again!

[quote=“wldlzrd1, post:39, topic:54730, full:true”]
good needle and escapement files can be $10 to $15 bucks a pop…!!!

…there are also less expensive file sets that as small or very short…that are not really escapement files…just short small files…doesnt matter…you use the files that give you the result you want…

(look in the Rio Grande catalog…cover to cover!..you will become the tool expert shortly!!!)[/quote]

You are like the devil on the shoulder when you say such things as that! LOLOLOL!

Thank you once again! All of you, thank you so much … my brain is soaking it all up like a sponge and I appreciate the time you all have taken in answering my questions!

<3

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I don’t know about paste watercolor. I use a dried cake and lick my finger then rub it on the cake and then on the piece. This is important because if you wet it with water and try to brush it on it beads up. You want to deposit a thin film to draw on. I use an air powered graver max for engraving. Hand engraving for the trade is the main part of what I do for a living.

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Hi Wade,

regarding the water beading up…I am thinking that maybe it does that when the metal is not clean enough yet…(ie:finger oils and such)…although the saliva tip is a good one!!!

Julie

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All I know is what I was taught and what I see. You gotta spit on it.

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I recall a discussion years ago where some of our more knowledgeable members maintained there are only two factories in the world who produce all the saw blades - is my recall correct? If that is true then they must make several different qualities of blades because I learned early in the game that cheap blades were no bargain whatsoever!

As well, James Miller I was wondering if you use smaller blades than 0/4 shown in the blade selection photo you shared?

Aurora

"jamesmiller046:
I use the same blades for cutting gold, silver, copper, and steel. Piercing is something I have always enjoyed, some shaped jobs required me to hold the item to the underside of the bench peg while piercing, like when I was piercing egg shells for Faberge type eggs. This was me way back 35 years ago

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My go to blade is a Pike 4/0. I have some 6/0 but they are so fragile that I rarely use them other than if I need to spilt a prong. I don’t know which brand is best but these seem consistent and not too expensive. I buy them by the gross. Yes, cheap blades are worthless.

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Aurora, I do use 6/0 and 8/0 blades on rare occasions, it really depends on the thickness of metals I am piercing as to what size saw blades I use.

James

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Needle files have a round (cylindrical) handle; escapement files are smaller have a square handle. At least this is/was true with German and Swiss ones.

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Thanks for this grid, I printed it for bench reference.Your work it exquisite, but I bet you’ve heard that compliment quite often!

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Be sure your blade is lubricated and in tight. Listen for that ping. You will break blades its part of jewelry making. Always cut on the waste side outside your line where you can make adjustments later. Keep your eyes ahead of your blade. If you watch the blade you will go off the line.
Get a good set of needle files from Grobet and make your corrections with that after you are finished. I use the “0” and “00” finer files take way to long. Rub the edge with the file for a smooth shining edge. You can also burnish it with for a shine.

Good Luck
Michelle Sandler

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As one of the few people on this forum who has actually used an escapement fie on an escapement–I’m a watch maker–I can say they are very difficult to find, quite expensive, and have such fine teeth that they only take off the very most minute amounts of metal. If your were sawing out initials, and you were outside your line, it would take considerable work with an escapement file to get back to the line. Lots more work, indeed, than you wanted to do. I would go with good quality files, the smaller the better, and would specifically buy files made (in order of quality) the USA, Germany, France or Switzerland. I would avoid files made in China, Japan or India. I have small files from all these countries and the best quality is Nicholson http://www.nicholsontool.com/ but the big problem with their site is that there is very little information about files per se on the site. Also Nicholson doesn’t make many small files (Helas!) but I find either my German or French files do the job well. The only Swiss made files I own are my escapement files. I find Swiss tools (in general) to be very expensive, and own very few. However, I’m sure that in terms of quality and performance, the files from the first mentioned four countries are just about the same.

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I trained as a watchmaker but liked jewelry better. I have the feeling that some of the files being discussed are not true escapement files but are being sold as such. You are correct, you would spend all day trying to file off small bump with an escapement file. I would even suggest that they should buy cheap disposable needle files and modify them to many shapes with a carbide cutting wheel.

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I couldn’t agree more. Escapement files are a rare beast. I even had trouble finding them in Switzerland, and they remove almost no metal. I like your idea of modifying cheap needle files . that’s a good way to go. there are also cheap diamond needle files out there too that are essentially throw away tools that will also get the job done.

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Hi all,

ok, I hear ya, but I still love my escapement files! in all the cuts- 2,4,6,8. I find that they cut well for me…smoother…less grabby…perhaps that’s why I like them…?

the ones I use the most are the round (love!) and half round and barrette…in cut 2,4

I like ArtCo…they seem to had alot of the cuts available.

escapement files

…I probably should not mention that I also like die sinker riffler files:grin:

Julie

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