Taig vs. MaxNC Mills

I have been working under a master craftsman making jewelry with a
Premium quality ModelMaster 1250 Mill and ArtCAM/Jewelsmith
Software. Want to go out on my own, and my price comfort range brings
me to the Taig or MaxNC Mills. Pro’s Con’s? Each are nice folks to
talk with and talk a good story, and have references by jewelry
makers. Will etiher do the job of fine 4th axis jewelry? 90% of my
machining will be in wax, and a little wood. The servo system is
appealing to me on the NC. I take it that the structure of the Taig
is better built? Could not afford to do so in the begining, but would
like to upgrade spindle at some point to a 25K rpm unit. Thanks for
the

Scot
Mt. Pleasant

Take a look at the JWX-10 from Roland, I have been using one for
about a year with ProtoWizard I think it is more money than either of
the two you mentioned but it is well worth it.

Regards
James McMurray

I have been working under a master craftsman making jewelry with a
Premium quality ModelMaster 1250 Mill and ArtCAM/Jewelsmith
Software. Want to go out on my own, and my price comfort range
brings me to the Taig or MaxNC Mills. Pro's Con's? Each are nice
folks to talk with and talk a good story, and have references by
jewelry makers. Will etiher do the job of fine 4th axis jewelry? 

I have a Taig that I picked up from Ebay. With the fourth axis. I’m
happy. This does at least 95% of the RP/CNC work that I need to do. I
haven’t sent out a job since. MeshCAM is extremely reasonable. I am
still trying to find reasonably priced 4th axis software. MeshCAM
appears to be well on the way to providing that in that it currently
does 2 sided NC files. A little manipulation allows the user to
adapt. Total cost for hardware and software, less than $2,000.

Bruce D. Holmgrain
JA Certified Master Benchjeweler
Goldwerx
http://www.goldwerx.com
@Red_Rodder

I have been working under a master craftsman making jewelry with a
Premium quality ModelMaster 1250 Mill and ArtCAM/Jewelsmith
Software. Want to go out on my own, and my price comfort range
brings me to the Taig or MaxNC Mills. Pro's Con's? Each are nice
folks to talk with and talk a good story, and have references by
jewelry makers. Will etiher do the job of fine 4th axis jewelry? 

More or less; the spindle speed on either one is a limiting factor,
since very tiny cutters require high RPMs.

90% of my machining will be in wax, and a little wood. The servo
system is appealing to me on the NC. 

While MaxNC calls it a servo system, their motion-control technique
uses stepper motors fitted with encoders, not servo motors. While it
will cut out when it detects errors (or thinks it does) it doesn’t
have a way to compensate for them on the fly like a true servo system
does.

I take it that the structure of the Taig is better built? 

That’s correct; MaxNC has made some design choices with their mills
which help in producing them quickly and cheaply. Among these are
mounting the leadscrews directly to the stepper motors with no
intermediary bearings, using 1/4" leadscrews instead of 1/2", using
aluminum-on-aluminum slides instead of steel and brass gibs, mounting
the spindle motor on two posts, and attaching the stepper motors to
the machine with only two of four lugs. That said, the MaxNC CL
series machines will run somewhat faster than the stock Taigs
(although their OL series is slower.)

Could not afford to do so in the begining, but would like to
upgrade spindle at some point to a 25K rpm unit. Thanks for the

That’s not too hard to do on either machine, although you may not be
able to control it in software like the MaxNC does with their spindle
motor. It won’t make any difference with the Taig, though.

Andrew Werby

Taig distributor, Taig and MaxNC owner

Bruce,

While the Taig and MaxNC mills are good mills in their class,
neither comes close to the MM 1250 (or the Revo). Not even close.
The difference in price is there for a reason, whether you are
measuring by speed, precision, features, reliability, service and
support, the two latter beat the the two former by a wide margin.

Wayne Emery

James,

how much work to you have to do to your waxes after they have been
milled on the roland? what is the difference bewteen the roland,
taig, and revo?

Matthew
@matthew_gross

Matthew,

It depends on the design, mostly it involves removing spokes from
the inside of the ring body and sometimes if the design only requires
rotary milling you need to carve out the inside or the wax tube to
the needed size. Usually this takes about 10 minutes or less. The
surfaces are quite good and a little goo gone or some other wax
polish can make them glass smooth.

The real beauty of these mills is the engineering in the motion
control; it is very accurate and can cut at ridiculous speeds.

James McMurray

Scott, I have no experience with the MaxNC, but do own a
Taig/Microproto 4 axis CNC mill.

If you do decide to go with the Taig, upgrade to the WW spindle
(accepts WW jewellers collets), these are much more superior &
accurate than the proprietary spindle/collets supplied. This I found
was their biggest weakness. I was getting runouts as high as 0.007"
with my 1/8" collet, when using ball mills with a 0.015" dia.,
that’s almost 50% off. With the WW spindle and collets, it has been
equal to or less than 0.001", and you notice it in less vibration.

Richard

I can’t tell you the answer to your question, because I have neither.
I have manual lathe and milling machine, but no CNC yet. I do have
links, though, that will help you decide. I’ve been traveling the same
road, you see:

http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/cncmain.htm
http://www.majosoft.com/majosoft_s_hobby_site.html

Good Luck!!

Scott, I have no experience with the MaxNC, but do own a
Taig/Microproto 4 axis CNC mill.

If you do decide to go with the Taig, upgrade to the WW spindle
(accepts WW jewellers collets), these are much more superior &
accurate than the proprietary spindle/collets supplied. This I found
was their biggest weakness. I was getting runouts as high as 0.007"
with my 1/8" collet, when using ball mills with a 0.015" dia.,
that’s almost 50% off. With the WW spindle and collets, it has been
equal to or less than 0.001", and you notice it in less vibration.

Richard

Taig hates making their stock collets, and they aren’t as accurate
as the WW, that’s for sure.

They now offer their mills with an ER16 spindle option which is as
accurate as the WW collets (at least in terms of the general
accuracy of the machines), with added benefits. ER16 collets go up to
3/8"/10mm and down as small as .020", and each collet has a 1/32"
range of collapse, meaning that you can hold anything between the max
and min size of each collet. Great if you use metric as well as
imperial shank tools. The ER16 has another benefit in that the
collets are far less expensive than the WW collets. (if you already
have WW collets, then the WW is a good option…)

http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html

after about 2 years of consideration, I purchased a taig mill. Total
was about $975. great dealer support, extremely knowledgeable gut
here in Denver, Tim Gallenstein, A2Z metalsmithing supply

So, I then purchased a set of 4 stepper motors, and a control board,
total cost about $375. Then, I spent a few days playing with a
solderign iron, and some sogftware, so I now have a 3 axis CNC mill
in the studio. I purchased Mach3 control software, $150.

Total outlay, $1,500. In hindsight, I am glad that I actually took
the time to assemble my own machine, as I now understand how cnc
works, and its limitations. Next, maybe I’ll cnc one of my slab saws
(10", 18 or 24", I don’t think I need to do it on the 4" or 6")

Actually it is less complicated than you might think: the tool moves
to wherever you tell it to, in x, y and z. much different than hand
held tools, where they don’t always go where you tell them to.

The taig has more than adequate resolution: a leadscrew that moves
an axis 0.050" per revolution, a stepper motor that is tweaked to
1600 steps per revolution, so each controllable move or step moves
your work 0.050/1600, or 0.00003125. yes, that is 3/100,000’s of an
inch.

As we used to say in mining engineering school, “close enough for
tunnel work” (a joke, refers to surveying measurements made by one
of our professors, driving a tunnel from both ends of a mountain, the
idea was to meet in the middle; they missed)

Visually, my setup is perhaps more of a mess than some of the nice
looking machines; there are cables, wires, motors hanging off the
end; in a retail shop, it might not be acceptable. In Tucson I saw
several wonderful looking machines; after close examination they (in
the 8-12,000 price range) had about the same functionality as my
setup (1,500 price range).

So, for me, the Taig.

regards

Richard

If you do decide to go with the Taig, upgrade to the WW spindle
(accepts WW jewellers collets), these are much more superior &
accurate than the proprietary spindle/collets supplied. This I
found was their biggest weakness. I was getting runouts as high as
0.007" with my 1/8" collet, when using ball mills with a 0.015"
dia., that's almost 50% off. With the WW spindle and collets, it
has been equal to or less than 0.001", and you notice it in less
vibration. 

Taig has recently added another spindle option, in addition to their
proprietary system and the WW spindle. The ER spindle option adds
$60 to the cost of the mill, but enables it to handle a wider range
of tool sizes (1/16 to 3/8" shank sizes) with greater accuracy.
Metric sizes are also available (but not from Taig). However the ER
collets have more “squish” to them, so metric sizes can be
accomodated in some of the Imperial-designated collets.

Andrew Werby

I’ve never seen a Maxnc mill, and thus can’t offer comment on them.
I do have experience in converting a unimat (not particularly
recommended), building a mill, and buying a Taig cnc ready. The Taig
might be a little rough in appearance (butt ugly even) but it is a
very tough little brute. One indication of overall satisfaction by
Taig owners is the lack of used machines on the market.

If at all possible I fully agree with Mark Zirinsky’s suggestion
that you assemble as much of the system as possible. Last time I
checked desktop cnc repair/problem solving wasn’t in the yellow
pages.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

Hi Mark,

so each controllable move or step moves your work 0.050/1600, or
0.00003125. yes, that is 3/100,000's of an inch. 

That’s close enough for government work!

Government work: Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut
with an ax & beat until it fits. (bg).

Dave

If at all possible I fully agree with Mark Zirinsky's suggestion
that you assemble as much of the system as possible. Last time I
checked desktop cnc repair/problem solving wasn't in the yellow
pages. 

For some, building a low budget CNC mill from plans and parts is the
way to go, and knowledge of how to do CNC repairs can only be an asset
in that endeavor, but I can honestly say I am very happy with the
“pre-owned” Model Master CNC 1000, that I got about 4 years ago.

Other than replacing the brushes on the spindle motor last week,
(which is as easy as changing a fuse), I have never had a repair
problem to solve.

I run the mill nearly everyday. In fact, it’s on for more hours than
it’s off. I would want others to know what an incredibly solid
workhorse this mill is, even if I had not become associated with Model
Master.

If I have a CNC or CAD/CAM question, I can call Mike or Cecily and
get the kind of personal attention that comes only from a company more
dedicated to their customer’s success than to their own sales and
promotional efforts.

Although other CNC mills may enjoy a monopoly in media and
advertising hoopla, it’s reassuring to know that when some of the most
recognizable names in upscale jewelry manufacturing need to increase
their model production, they quietly purchase a 2nd or 3rd Model
Master mill.

Best regards,
Jesse Kaufman

Perhaps some explanation is in order. that is, why do I mess with
the details of the tools? what is the point in spending the time to
"build my own" when I can more easily write a check for a completely
built unit.

Even with an engineering degree, and at that time 30 years gem
cutting experience, i just didn’t quite get it, until I took a class
in bead, flush and channel setting, taught by a master by the name
of Shep waldman in denver. For the first two days, we did nothing but
learn how to sharpen gravers. For the first day, i was quite pissed,
and wondered why I had spent good money to watch some guy put nails
to a grinding wheel. About halfway through the second day, as we
were just getting started making a few setting cuts, the light bulb
went off: I can now make the exact tool that I need, right now, for
the exact thing that i want to do, and I can do it in 30 seconds. The
exact tool. For what I want to do. Now. I don’t need to order it; i
don’t need to explain it to someone;

that was my “eureka”, or perhaps simply “oh that’s why it is done
that way” moment - at that moment, I suddenly became a toolmaker.
Not because I am that great at it, but because it became clear to me
that it was easier, faster, better, more personal, yes cheaper, and a
time saver, to make just what I needed, now.

As I moved to gem carving, the toolmaker mentality went with - for
one project, I built a carving machine, which will hold the insane
resolution of 0.00008" (yes, 8/100,000’s of an inch), from mechanisms
laying around the shop, completely manually operated. Machine built
in about 10 hours of assembly time, 10 minutes of cussing. Same
reason as we were sharpening gravers: that was the best way, to do
the exact job required, now. My first test piece off of this carving
machine, just to see if the thing worked and which end of the tool
did the cutting, sold to the first person who saw it.

So, CNC. A programmable tool. Just think, you don’t have to sharpen
your graver anymore, the graver is now whatever you code it, in
software, to be. If you want to make 300,000 cuts to have a project
just so, great, turn the machine on, hit the start button and come
back in a day or two. I wanted to build my own; same reason as
sharpening the graver.

I am glad to hear that others use other versions of mills; i
encourage you to customize them to do exactly what you need. i
encourage you to experiment; to make new fixtures and try new types
of holders, to try your old metal texturing technique on wax, or
even on a tourmaline, see what happens. the freedom of thinking that
results from creating a new tool inevitably flows through into your
finished work, suddenly you find that, viola, you have a new style
and work that is unique as yourself.

by the way, my instructor, shep waldman, at that time had 53 years of
doing nothing but gem setting. truely a master - he had some projects
going on of over 300 stones, he was flush setting, on one piece. if I
remember correctly, it took him most of a long day.

regards

Even with an engineering degree, and at that time 30 years gem
cutting experience, i just didn't quite get it, until I took a
class in bead, flush and channel setting, taught by a master by the
name of Shep Waldman in Denver. For the first two days, we did
nothing but learn how to sharpen gravers. For the first day, i was
quite pissed, and wondered why I had spent good money to watch some
guy put nails to a grinding wheel. About halfway through the second
day, as we were just getting started making a few setting cuts, the
light bulb went off: I can now make the exact tool that I need,
right now, for the exact thing that i want to do, and I can do it
in 30 seconds. The exact tool. For what I want to do. Now. I don't
need to order it; i don't need to explain it to someone; that was
my "eureka", or perhaps simply "oh that's why it is done that way"
moment - at that moment, I suddenly became a toolmaker.

Thank you, thank you, thank you…You will never know how much good
it did my soul to read those lines! I really needed to hear that, and
it came from someone I’ve never even met… Setting, ornamental
engraving, intaglio, jewelry engraving, arms engraving, monograms,
lettering, Heraldic, and print engravers will all nominate you for
sainthood! With your permission, I’d like to have a framed poster
made out your words to hang in my classroom! Bless you, sir!

Brian P. Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA USA
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com

Hi Mark,

Perhaps some explanation is in order. that is, why do I mess with
the details of the tools? what is the point in spending the time to
"build my own" when I can more easily write a check for a
completely built unit.

I’m sorry, I should have taken the time to elaborate my thoughts
about building a CNC mill, because in retrospect, I can see how my
words might be interpreted as dismissive, the implication being that
it was probably not a good idea at all. That wasn’t my real
intention.

The ability to understand the concepts, the mechanical skill and the
practical background to customize a generic CNC mill to cut jewelry
models comes somewhat naturally to some people, while to others, it’s
about as feasible a goal as becoming an Olympic athlete.

Your qualification that you have an engineering degree, speaks
volumes of why it’s a fantastic idea for you to build your own
machine, while it may not be for the average jeweler. This is not to
say that it would be a bad thing for someone without experience in
that area to step out of their comfort zone and learn something
completely new if they had the time to experiment a bit.

When I realized that my days were numbered at the bench (because of
chronic carpal tunnel), I went out and bought my first computer, never
having even used a typewriter before. Had I been more knowledgeable, I
probably wouldn’t have gotten a Packard Bell. Windows 98 had just come
out. I must have crashed and re-installed that system 20 times in the
first three months, because I was determined to learn the OS inside
out, all on my own. Since I was unemployed and living on workman’s
compensation, I had the time. I’m glad I had that experience, because
it’s given me the confidence to build three new computers from parts,
since then.

I realized in high school that I wasn’t much good at math. I made it
as far as tenth grade geometry and that was enough for me… I was
more comfortable in an art class. So, it still amazes me that I love
to design jewelry with a computer because I was such an unlikely
candidate for the technology.

I’ve developed an intuitive method of working so I that don’t have to
think in engineering terms. I’ve learned to reply on visual references
and use numbers as little as possible, yet my work is accurate to.001
mm.

I have the highest regard for those who have the gift to think in
engineering terms because it doesn’t come naturally to me… Perhaps,
building a CNC mill isn’t beyond my abilities, (in fact I would
actually enjoy the challenge), but my hands are full right now, with
what I need to do on a daily basis.

So let me say in closing that I respect your approach and acknowledge
that there are many good reasons to custom build a CNC mill, but it’s
not for everybody.

I’m personally thankful that Model Master developed a jewelry
specific system for jewelers who don’t necessarily have the time,
natural ability or inclination to do it themselves.

Regards,
Jesse Kaufman
JDK JEWELRY DESIGN
CAD/CAM Technology
Handcrafted Originality

Jesse,

I'm sorry, I should have taken the time to elaborate my thoughts
about building a CNC mill, because in retrospect, I can see how my
words might be interpreted as dismissive 

I don’t recall who addressed me directly, but they were dismissive
and pointed out that there was a reason for the differences in
pricing. I had merely pointed out that in the “Taig vs. MaxNC”
discussion, I was happy with my sub $2,000 Taig.

I had a very similar education to your own. Today I am faced with
watching my 13 year old take on far more math than I could have
handled.

I bought my Taig as a unit, but it was really a kit with the parts in
boxes. It composed of a CNC ready mill, four stepper motors and a
controller or driver. All of the parts basically snapped together.
Not particularly challenging. In fact, I was doing my first model in
about an hour after finding some trialware to get started. Making
everything square has been a bit of a challenge, but there are so
many user groups like Orchid that there is really no excuse for no
learning how it all works. > The ability to understand the concepts,
the mechanical skill and the > practical background to customize a
generic CNC mill to cut jewelry > models comes somewhat naturally to
some people, while to others, it’s > about as feasible a goal as
becoming an Olympic athlete. > This is not the case anymore. This
technology has been around for a couple of decades, and I suggest
that more and more home wood workers among others will be going in
this direction. Software prices will soon bottom out and the hardware
has been cheap for quite a while. The technology is cheap enough for
the entire world to get involved with.

I've developed an intuitive method of working so I that don't have
to think in engineering terms. I've learned to reply on visual
references and use numbers as little as possible, yet my work is
accurate to.001 mm. 

As was pointed out in Imperial measure, the Taig will also perform to
these tolerances, and the beauty of computers is that humans fairly
rarely need to get involved with real numbers anymore.

I don’t fault you for paying a little more for the support that I am
sure that you received with your Model Master. In fact, I
congratulate you for getting an early start, but the discussion
started around “Taig vs. MaxNC”. Some of the rest of us are scared to
make that kind of investment. I am driving a ten year old car because
I am scared of salesmen. My brain hoses up when they talk. I want to
beat them. No thanks to some of the people that I have worked with
over the years.

I try to research my purchases. Sometimes by reading up on the
subject and sometimes through experimentation. In the case of the
Taig experiment, I have been very pleasantly surprised.

Bruce D. Holmgrain
JA Certified Master Benchjeweler
Goldwerx
http://www.goldwerx.com
@Red_Rodder