Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Stones on memo


#1

Orchidians,

Out of the blue a company called me wanted to send me stones to check
out on memo. Stones looked good but at this time I had no use for
them and retuned them. They want me to pay for the shipping charges
on the memo. I don’t think that’s right since I did not initiate the
order. Is that wrong of me to think that way?

Hans Allwicher
hansallwicher.com


#2

The shipping is always due by the recipient, regretfully :frowning:


#3

Hans,

them and returned them. They want me to pay for the shipping
charges on the memo. I don't think that's right since I did not
initiate the order. Is that wrong of me to think that way? 

You pay return postage on memo stones. When you agreed to look at
them, you agreed to responsibility

while you have them and for their return. Standard jewelry industry
practice. If something is sent to you without your knowledge, you
have no responsibility.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#4

You have to be vary careful about what you say on the telephone to
these people as the wording can often trap you into a contract that
you dont want. Having returned the stones I think that they hope to
make a small profit on the shipping so ignore anything other than a
court summons.

Nick Royall


#5

Welcome to retail Hans! No, it’s not right, but it’s how it’s done.
To avoid those shipping charges in the future, only accept memo on
things you might actually need. Better yet, only on things you
actually ordered.

Dave Phelps


#6
... wanted to send me stones to check out on memo..... retuned
them. They want me to pay for the shipping charges on the memo. I
don't think that's right 

There is right, wrong, and practical. If the amount is not much I’d
pay it and tell them to never contact me again. Perhaps you should
have expected to pay return shipping on a refusal. That would seem
reasonable to me. In any event you are now open to them hassling
you, their turning it over to a collection agency… It just is not
worth the price of shipping charges. I’d chalk it up to a learning
experience and find a more productive use of my time than fussing
with them.

Neil A.


#7

Perhaps some people do not understand how gems on memo works. Usually
I call and request gems or jewelry on memo. Sometimes close to
Christmas I get offers from a company to get a diamond pendant and
diamond stud earring on memo for two or three months. It is standard
operating procedure for someone who accepts an offer of gems or
jewelry on memo to pay shipping both ways. Look at it this way.
There is a company I can order a diamond from and if I return it,
there is a 15% restocking fee. The diamond is $1000. I am ordering it
in the hopes of making the sale, it is not a sure thing, but I need
to show something to the customer. If I return the diamond, I pay
$150 plus shipping. If I get a memo diamond, and the customer does
not want it, I am out shipping both ways, about $40. I would rather
lose $40 than $170. Sometimes I take a risk to try and make $500.
Lose $40 or make $460 after shipping. Odds have been in my favor over
the years. Makes even more sense when a local diamond dealer wants
20% more than having one sent on memo.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#8

You must have said “Yes” on the phone for this to happen. The first
rule when receiving cold phone calls is to never say…“Yes”. The
caller has rehearsed an arsenal of words designed specifically to
lead us to the “Y” word!

Hello am I speaking to Mr Hans?.. My name is ^&"% from SSS::"$#
How are you today? May I interest you ? You are lucky winner! Your
name was picked…!

(OK there are much more sofisticated approaches but the method is
the same).

Avoiding the “Y” word needs practise and it leads to various methods
to politely hanging up without any commitment.


#9

Thank you, Richard. I believe the person in question had in mind that
the company approached him with the diamond and therefore he
shouldn’t have to pay. The relevant part to the agreement though was
the word “yes” - which indicates, yes you may send it to me and
(using the industry norms of business practice) also indicates that
he is saying, yes I will pay the shipping.


#10
The shipping is always due by the recipient, regretfully 

Really! based on what?

Party A initiates transaction with party B, without specifying term
of transaction. Law is quite clear on that point. Party A assumes all
the risks associated with this particular transaction. Not only I
would not pay for the shipping. I would not send it back until I am
paid for my time wasted looking at their stones, shipping it back,
and all other costs stemming from resources utilization on my side.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#11

It was mail fraud. If you didn’t solicit the company to send you the
stones you should have just kept them. If anyone mails you something
you did not order, it is yours FREE! You can NOT open it, mark return
to sender, and that be that. You can open it and keep it, and that be
that. Or you can open it and throw it away, and that be that. They
can not legally charge you for anything.

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/10e

They should count themselves fortunate that you sent them back to
them. If they contact you again file a mail fraud complaint for
unsolicited merchandis with the US Postal Inspector. Tell them you
are going to do so and they will leave you alone.

Val


#12
Stones on memo They want me to pay for the shipping charges on the
memo. I don't think that's right since I did not initiate the
order. Is that wrong of me to think that way? 

Not paying the shipping is probably the best way to NOT have them
bother you again trying to send you stones on memo which you do not
want/need. They will think twice about offering to send you stones
again unsolicited.

If you do pay for the shipping - you will probably get more
unsolicited shipments

Best regards,
Robert P. Lowe Jr.
Lowe Associates - Brasil


#13
It was mail fraud. If you didn't solicit the company to send you
the stones you should have just kept them. If anyone mails you
something you did not order, it is yours FREE! You can NOT open it,
mark return to sender, and that be that. 

I believe the original poster said that he was asked if wanted to
see some memo goods.

The original poster agreed to look at the merchandise. Hardly fraud.
Some of the people who have answered apparently have little or no
knowledge of how the jewelry business works. There is a tremendous
amount of gems and jewelry that are sent on memo, every day. My wife
gets thousands of dollars of sterling jewelry sent to her to look
through over a week and pick out what she wants to keep. It is a
memo. My opinion is that if you do not use memo, perhaps you have a
hobby and not a business.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#14
Perhaps some people do not understand how gems on memo works.
Usually I call and request gems or jewelry on memo. Sometimes close
to Christmas I get offers from a company to get a diamond pendant
and diamond stud earring on memo for two or three months. It is
standard operating procedure for someone who accepts an offer of
gems or jewelry on memo to pay shipping both ways. 

Sure, if jeweler initiates a request, than jeweler has to bear all
expenses. But, it is not the situation here, as I understand. The
company made an offer to show goods in the hope to make some sales.
Just because viewer did not buy, it does not obligate him to carry
any financial burdens. “Memo” is an abuse of language here, trying to
mask advertising as business transaction. To obligate viewer of the
goods for any expense is akin to charge TV viewer partial cost of the
commercial if the viewer did not buy after viewing the commercial.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#15

Good luck filling mail fraud charges with the United States Postal
Insepctors or the post office. Many years ago due to the amounst of
mail fraud going on there was a memo from Janet Reno to the Postal
Inspectors that if amial fraud was not for more then $100,000 or if
many people were defrauded and it was such an amount in total, then
the postal insepctors woudl nto get involved In fact I had several
mail frauds and the postal insepctors stated to me since it was
$3,000 then $7,500 they cvould nto invetiaget it since the US
attorneys office only goes after the above amounst due to all the
cases of fraud going on. Check with the inspector genrals office and
they will tell you the same unless many pepole filled complainst and
it involves a large sum of money. Thus large corporations and people
or many people loosing more then $100,000 in total willhave their
cases investigated by the Us Postal authorities . This ialso was
toldto several people by the office of Senator Spector in
Philadelphai, Pa Call the Senate officve about it.

Lee Horowitz


#16

Memo 101

Out of the blue a company called me wanted to send me stones to
check out on memo. Stones looked good but at this time I had no use
for them and retuned them. They want me to pay for the shipping
charges on the memo. I don't think that's right since I did not
initiate the order. Is that wrong of me to think that way? 

Re Read original post, PLEASE. Hans had a choice to accept or reject
the offer. He accepted, and accepted responsibility that is
completely and totally known and understood by most if not all
involved in the jewelery business as a completely legitimate form of
being able to receive merchandise to examine with no commitment to
buy.

I have done it for over 30 years.

Sorry you learned the hard way what the terms of memo are, you pay
both ways.

I do not believe that it is the responsibility of the company to
educate each customer as to how memo works, they probably usually
work with people who have experience working in the jewelry business.
as I had stated in other posts, where memo is a standard and normal
business practice. Hardly seems fair to blame the company for your
lack of knowledge. Now that you have this knowledge, you can refuse
offers that do not suit your needs. If you do have a call for
something you cannot afford outright and do not want to buy to add to
your inventory if the customer does not make the purchase, you can
have the advantage of using memo. You initiate the call, which is how
most memo is done.

Memo is especially advantageous when ordering gems and you need a
selection of qualities to be able to exactly match gems in a piece
that is missing a stone and you do not have the time to send the
piece to have the gems matched, or the piece is too valuable for you
to feel comfortable shipping.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#17
Not paying the shipping is probably the best way to NOT have them
bother you again trying to send you stones on memo which you do
not want/need. They will think twice about offering to send you
stones again unsolicited. 

So for hypothetical purpose, a company you do business with
regularly calls and they think they have something you would like
based on your past purchases.

You agree to have them memo the goods to you. You get it and it is
not exactly what you need. You pay for the shipping both ways or risk
not having the company send you memo in the future?

Diamond company calls you and wants you to look at their melee. The
goods are what you use, the price is $100 less per carat than what
you usually pay. You do not need any now, pay postage both ways or
not?

My experience is regardless of who initiates the call, I get a bill
for postage when I send them back if I do not send payment for
postage.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#18

Richard is absolutely correct. This is how it’s done. Retail
customers often buy diamonds and other jewelry over the Internet
without actually looking at it based on photos or the paper grading
report, but rarely will a professional in the business ever commit to
buying anything of value without seeing it first, so the trade uses
memo. Memo is a short term loan of the merchandise for examination.
It is customary for good customers to return either a check or the
goods within a fortnight, but it’s usually OK to ask for an invoice
and pay that a week or two later. Just decide quickly and pay it
within 30 days… Basic Good Manners 101.

The tradition is that if you ask for it, or someone asks if they can
send you something to look at and you say yes, send it to me, you
agree to pay shipping. If you purchase it, or a substantial portion
of the memo, they will usually pick up the shipping. There are
companies that offer free shipping both ways, they use it
promotionally to attract and keep customers. Truth is, even when they
pay the postage, you’re really paying it. Right, Beth?

In response to the folks that say don’t pay it, I acknowledge some
valid points. However, there is a trade organization called the
Jewelers Board of Trade (JBT). They rate jewelry businesses on their
creditworthiness specifically for vendors to use in verifying the
existence and size of the business and their credit history. Unless
you are a very small business and choose not to be listed (which
carries a message to suppliers all of it’s own), it is not at your
option whether you participate or not. If you’re a hobbyist or part
time goldsmith, and don’t really care about your credit rating, you
are probably too small for JBT to care about and most suppliers will
only ship to you COD anyway, at least until you establish a
relationship. But if you want to be a professional and run a real
jewelry business, which means buying from memo, you really need to
pay the man.

Word travels fast in this business. Even in these days, it is a
tightly knit community and people talk. If you get a reputation for
not paying shipping, or returning merchandise after 30 days, or any
of a number of other little violations of the “rules”, you won’t be
able to buy from a lot of people without paying in advance. Only you
can decide if in your particular case the $40 is worth it or not.
They’re not likely to let it go, and there’s a good chance that
starting about six months from now, every time you try to order
something on memo from a supplier and they ask the JBT if you’re
listed and rated, a little note will pop up saying “refuses to pay
shipping on memo goods”.

Would you rather be right, or would you rather be rich? Your call.

Dave Phelps


#19

stones on memo update

Hey friends, after reading the feedback from you guys I still wasn’t
sure if I should buckel and pay the shipping.

My wife finally called the company and just asked them. And no, we
don’t have to pay the shipping to us.

Now I am happy and the company has a happy customer. So I took my
wife out for lunch. On me!

Hans Allwicher
hansallwicher.com


#20

It’s a no brainer.

Last time I was offered stones on memo I paid for my time to walk
over, pawed through a large parcel, and picked out the stones I
wanted while he watched. An offer of memo was refused, I had found
the stones I needed and cut a cheque. Walked back to work, missing
lunch.

No thoughts of shipping costs being shared. He had invested in the
parcel and his time watching a slightly anal jeweller. We both made
money and were happy. If it costs you money to get the goods
requested guess who pays.

jeffD
Demand Designs
gmavt.net/~jdemand