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[Source] Roach-pruf boric acid


#1

have looked for boric acid in all the usual stores. all i can find
is roach-pruf which is 99% boric acid and 1% inert where no one seems
to know the inert. has anyone attempted using this product to make
firecoat. i am hesitant to use this product because of the 1%
unknown. any help please.


#2

Boric acid powder used to be used as a common eye wash in the old
days. I have purchased it in a powder form at the drug store. the
bottles are under 6 ounces. It is also the most common item that
causes poisoning of children,people and pets. When mixed with water
for medical use it has to be kept in the fridge. Most people don’t
label the bottle, pitcher ect. Somebody else comes along and drinks
it. It is colorless, orderless and tasteless when mixed with water.
It is also used in ant bait traps and powdered ant kill products
mixed with sugar or other sweetener. Hence the pets thing.

A teaspoon of it is enough to kill a child. So if you do mix it up
and keep it around make sure you have the bottle well labeled. In
larger cities they sell roach proof at most exterminators places.
When You buy it there ask for a MSDS But it mostly will say that,the
listing for the inert item is just labeled inert and the percentage I
do know that corn starch and baking soda can be and is used as a
filler in any number of things. Food wise and other.

I use and mix borax up for firescale ect. You can get that in a good
sized container at most grobet catalog sellers. Also most welding
supply stores sell a canned flux for brazing called borax comes in a
yellow and black can.

The other source is a chemical/lab supply either locally or on the
web. Google will bring up a host

been there, haven’t did that yet!
glen


#3

You can buy powdered Boric Acid in the pharmacy section of most
grocery stores. If you don’t see it on the shelves, ask the
pharmacists - some stores ask the pharmacy department to keep the
Boric acid behind the counter.

K.


#4
all i can find is roach-pruf which is 99% boric acid and 1% inert
where no one seems to know the inert. has anyone attempted using
this product to make firecoat. 

Yes, I have used it with no problem. The inert part seems to be
dye-- it is blue. This looks odd, but does not appear to do any harm.

Noel


#5

Boric acid is a good roach preventative and is market that way. I
always went to an old fashion drug store and bought it.

I found this system did best for me.

  1. Bought it and placed it in a paper towel, pounded it with a
    mallet to make it very fine.

  2. Use a tupper ware small container and put alcohol in it, close
    and shake well. Let settle.

  3. Used a small artist brush, gathered up goop from the bottom to
    coat the piece.

  4. CLOSE the cover after sue. I found if you let the cover stay open
    over a period of time, for some reason the mixture never worked as
    well as if you kept it closed.

  5. By the way, I used Denatured Alcohol for years and found out as
    jewelers we should be suing isopropyl alcohol (used in the house).
    Denatured settles in your lungs, bad for you.

David Geller
JewelerProfit
510 Sutters Point
Sandy Springs, GA. 30328
(404) 255-9565
www.JewelerProfit.com


#6

I have found large bootles and cheap at the dollar store. I will
usually buy all of it at one time becuse its so cheap.

Eric


#7

I’ve been using it for years with excellent results. Plus, it
creates a wonderful bit of fun when people see me squeezing the big
"Roach-Pruf" bottle at the bench!

Best Regards,
Bob
Robert Wise Studio


#8

Hi,

all i can find is roach-pruf which is 99% boric acid and 1% inert
where no one seems to know the inert. has anyone attempted using
this product to make firecoat. 

I just looked at my jug of roach powder from Walgreens. It’s also
99% with 1% inert. I’ve been using it for over a year on gold &
silver with no problems.

Dave


#9
  1. CLOSE the cover after sue. I found if you let the cover stay open
    over a period of time, for some reason the mixture never worked as
    well as if you kept it closed.

As the purpose of the boric acid is to absorb oxygen, long term
exposure to oxygen probably loads the boric acid with oxygen,
leaving it with less capacity to absorb the O2? I’d never considered
this till reading your post, but that’s reasonably. Why else does
older fluxes not work as well and soldering gets harder to do! If I
remember right, most chemical reactions speed up with temp, so at
room temp the reaction is still slowly going on? I’d conjecture, in
dry powdered form the reaction is probably stopped or at least
greatly slowed.

Better chemist than I are on this list, my last formal chemisry
class was in 1971, but much of our craft is applied chemistry, so it
pays to recall those old class lessons.

Ed, applying chemestry to our Super Bowl treats as I write, and may
the best Ad guys win!


#10

Good morning, Most jewelry supply co. sell Magic Boric acid powder
(super fine). It stays suspended in the alcohal much better than
regular boric acid.


#11

Finally got to the source post on this… We use the product, I guess.
I haven’t paid attention to the name, I just buy it at Walgreens. I
got tired of having to do the chemical supply thing, and it’s just
boric acid. It works just fine. The inert material is likely dirt or
something - anyway, I’ve used technical boric acid, and the roach
product, and find no difference in performance. The only thing I
don’t like is it’s a finer powder than I might like - granular is
better, I think. Anyway, yes, it works just fine.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#12

That’s odd…the Roach-Pruf I buy at the Wal-mart here in Kansas
City is completely white. I also use it and have had no trouble with
it whatsoever.

KH


#13

Interesting! I’ve always thought it had to be mixed with denatured
alcohol. Household alcohol is easier! Wow!


#14
As the purpose of the boric acid is to absorb oxygen, long term
exposure to oxygen probably loads the boric acid with oxygen,
leaving it with less capacity to absorb the O2? 

Not at room temperature. At much higher temperatures it will absorb
O2 but not at room temp. Water absorption may be the cause of
problem you are seeing.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#15

I am the one that sugested super fine boric acid. Now you have
options to try. One mans tea is another mans poison. Freedom to
choose for yourself is a wonderful thing.


#16
5. By the way, I used Denatured Alcohol for years and found out as
jewelers we should be suing isopropyl alcohol (used in the house).
Denatured settles in your lungs, bad for you. 

This is the first time I’ve heard this- so I should use isopropyl
alcohol mixed with boric acid? it works the same?

Laura


#17
should I use isopropyl alcohol mixed with boric acid? it works the
same? 

All alcohols are bad to breathe, ingest or get on your skin period
end of story.

From a MSDS for Isopropyl Alcohol
Potential Health Effects

Eye:

Produces irritation, characterized by a burning sensation, redness,
tearing, inflammation, and possible corneal injury.

Skin:

May cause skin sensitization, an allergic reaction, which becomes
evident upon re-exposure to this material. Prolonged and/or repeated
contact may cause defatting of the skin and dermatitis. May cause
irritation with pain and stinging, especially if the skin is
abraded.

Ingestion:

May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and
diarrhea. May cause kidney damage. May cause central nervous system
depression, characterized by excitement, followed by headache,
dizziness, drowsiness, and nausea. Advanced stages may cause
collapse, unconsciousness, coma and possible death due to
respiratory failure.

Inhalation:

Inhalation of high concentrations may cause central nervous system
effects characterized by headache, dizziness, unconsciousness and
coma. Inhalation of vapor may cause respiratory tract irritation.
May cause narcotic effects.

Chronic:

Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause defatting and
dermatitis. May cause allergic skin reaction in some individuals."

Read the MSDS for the other alcohols and they as bad or worse.

Second issue the isopropyl alcohol you can easily buy is rubbing
alcohol this is 30% water this is no good for use as a fire coat as
it will not burn off. Pure isopropyl alcohol must be specifically
purchased if you want to try this.

Probably the “best” one to work with from a health aspect is ethyl
alcohol, the drawback is it is hard to get due to tax issues ( it is
the drinking variety) and can not hold as much boric acid in
solution as methyl alcohol. Methyl alcohol is highly toxic and is one
of the chemicals used to “denature” ethyl alcohol for sale as fuel or
shellac solvent. There are a host of other chemicals added to ethyl
alcohol along with the methyl alcohol some of which are gasoline,
isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) and other solvents it depends on the
manufacturer as to what they chose to add to get around the tax
requirements. It is these other solvents that make me concerned
about use of denatured alcohol.

I do not believe pure isopropyl alcohol is a suitable substitute for
denatured ethyl alcohol but I have ordered some to see if it can
hold enough boric acid in solution to be workable. I will report
back.

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#18

Jim, Are you an alchemist? I am always impressed with your knowledge
of metallurgy and chemistry, hum, how does he do this? My question,
is the alcohol they sell in liquor stores ( Ever clear) 100%
drinkable stuff the same as what you are going to experiment with?
Regards, Craig


#19
Jim, Are you an alchemist? 

no just too damn curious for my own good :slight_smile:

My question, is the alcohol they sell in liquor stores ( Ever
clear) 100% drinkable stuff the same as what you are going to
experiment with? 

The alcohol I have ordered is reactively pure isopropyl alcohol,
basically the same stuff as in rubbing alcohol but no added water.I
have never tried isopropyl for this purpose so I am curious if it
will hold boric acid in solution. I have used methanol (wood
alcohol) and ethanol (denatured alcohol) they both work but methanol
holds more boric acid in solution. The problem with methanol is it is
too toxic for me to feel comfortable with using it in the studio in
the quantities that I use fire coat. So I stick with denatured
ethanol as the safer if less effective solution.

Ever-clear is relatively pure ethanol probably 198 + proof or 99%
pure, certainly a good candidate for use in fire coat preparations.
It is a lot more expensive than denatured due to the federal taxes
on drinking alcohol.

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#20

Now an alcohol primer

Hi Jim…List…

In another dimension of time and space I dabble in Natural
Perfumery…

Without generating a long treatise about the philosophy involved,
etc… Most natural essences require a very high percentage of
alcohol, of whichever kind, to dissolve into…

Everclear comes two ways, if at all, depending upon where you live,
in the US… Either 150 proof (or 75%) or 190 proof (or
95%)…about
$19/liter for the 190 here in WI…

Everclear is a grain distilled ethanol (alcohol)…think of vodka on
steroids, with none of its rough edges removed by filtration… You
can drink this stuff straight, if you’re crazy enough to try it…
Due to a run in with some rather potent moonshine many years
past…I never have…

I wonder if the trolls and gremlins might be appeased…?

Denatured alcohol is ethanol in which something is added to it so it
is not drinkable…This keeps the BATF happy, so denatured can
bought for thinning paint and coatings, as a cleaning solvent,
alcohol lamps, making flux/firecoat and things like that…

Isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, unless specially ordered,
come two ways, here in WI for example, 70% and 91%…Not sure where
it comes from, I suspect it’s toxicity is low… Great for pulling
dyes out of cabs you have a suspicion about, cleaning off
fingerprints, a preclean for an epoxy or other adhesive, etc…

Methanol, is the so-called “wood” alcohol, but actually most of it
is synthesiized from I forget what…It is a high grade solvent and
cleaner…

It is also very toxic, attacks the nervous system and can cause
blindness… You don’t have to drink or inhale this stuff…it can
pass through the skin…

Sometimes methanol is used as a denaturing agent for ethanol…A
very low percentage…

Bad juju this…

Gary W. Bourbonais
A.J.P. (GIA)
aka L’Hermite Aromatique