Reducing costs by using PMC

Jewelry Discussion
41

To add one more comment about PMC-- You frequently hear people say
"I can always tell when it’s metal clay". Though I’m not sure there’s
necessarily anything wrong with that (I can tell when it is hand
engraving, for example. So?)-- I would say-- you can always tell.
except when you can’t.

If you only conclude that badly-made pieces are metal clay, then you
will never see a well-made metal clay piece.

There’s a lot of badly-made metal clay. And a lot of badly-made
fabricated, cast, or anything else!

Noel

42

Hello Marilyn, I googled the Masters Registry for metal clay and I
must say I was impressed. Hans, maybe you should set aside the
micrometers and vernier calipers for a few moments and do the same.
Your only cheating yourself by not having an open mind about these
new technologies. Thanks Marilyn! Chris

43 
PMC simply dumbs down jewellery making and produces an inferior
product.

Hans, I greatly admire your work and normally agree to most of what
you say. But while I agree that there is some PMC jewelry that’s
crap (as there is crap in all forms of making jewelry), I think your
above statement as closed-mindedly full of it. I’m definitely not
the the greatest or most experienced jeweler around, but I’m sorry,
you can’t say that this piece I made " using PMC for the snake
design " is dumbing down jewelry making. And while I still greatly
respect you and your work, if you do, you’re full of !#$%. Just
keeping it along the same lines of your rant. El

And no, I don’t like the texture of wax as much as metal clay. But I
come from the art world and worked in clay for years. We all thought
wax was inferior when it came to creating detail. It’s why most
people do their mock-ups in clay as opposed to wax even when we were
using lost wax method for our bronze sculptures.

1448×1931 421 KB

44

Hi Jackie

I will ignore your ad hominem attack, other than to say that I do not
dismiss CAD/CAM at all, (where did that come from?) and I am not very
prejudiced, nor totally ignorant.

And I bet you have NEVER touched metal clay, am I right?

Actually, you are wrong.

I first read about PMC in a quarterly magazine called Aurum (I
think) and that it was being developed by Mitsubishi in the early
1990’s.

I was most intrigued.

So much so that I tried phoning Mitsubishi directly but the language
barrier proved insurmountable in the pre-internet days.

Inlay into stones was my first focus. I imagined it to be much like
a mercury amalgam without the toxicity.

I purchased some in about '95 and ran a bunch of experiments in my
workshop and at the end I came to the conclusion that while it was a
nice technology, I could find no practical use for it.

There was no actual medium that it replaced that was not already
cheaply available.

The main drawback was it’s massive shrinkage, porosity, and that the
metal’s apparent lack of density caused it to be weak.

The electrical cost also was a factor.

Having to run an oven at burnout temperatures to sinter a piece
seemed very inefficient and wasteful to me.

Fast forward to today and I see that the product has been refined to
an extent, but still has the same drawbacks I mentioned earlier.

The next ten years also produced a wave of so called artists who
produced badly made metal objects loosely called jewellery.

The new thinking was that there was no more a need to learn proper
metal working, but armed with an oven, a few spatulas and PMC, the
jewellery world was conquered.

This proved to be a fallacy and once the dust had settled, the rise
of the “certified instructor” took place.

This term gave gravitas to PMC, because if you were taught by some
one who was certified, then by implication you also were licensed to
work in PMC and therefore you would be making good jewellery.

Sadly, this is not true.

Going to the pretentiously titled ‘Metal Clay Masters Register’
website and reading about the costs and efforts involved to get
yourself ‘registered’ reminds me a bit of a pyramid scheme crossed
with Scientology.

And to add insult to injury, all the pieces that are shown there are
not even remotely approaching the ‘master’ level.

PMC is not a completely bad thing, though.

What PMC has done is to introduce many people to the art of
jewellery making.

Once the person who starts with PMC realizes that the metal objects
that they make are unsalable at a professional level, often they are
inspired to learn the correct methodology and so expand their skill
set.

I am sure that on a global scale, PMC has caused more people to
enter the jewellery field than any other product in recent times.

And that is certainly a good thing.

But PMC should only be regarded as the first level of your learning
process.

Not the final destination.

The PMC industry has ballooned into an accessory supply industry,
where the most money is made selling the raw product.

Everybody ignores the fact that the bar has been lowered and that
working solely in PMC is an evolutionary dead end.

The fact remains that using a carving wax and then having it cast is
far, far cheaper, much more simple and versatile and can produce a
product that, unlike PMC, can be sold professionally.

So Jackie, you are welcome to go to my website (meevis.com) to judge
my level of ignorance, and in turn, perhaps you could show me some of
the work that you have done in metal clay that is indistinguishable
from traditional metalworking.

Hans

http://www.meevis.com
http://hansmeevis.blogspot.com

45 
There's a lot of badly-made metal clay. And a lot of badly-made
fabricated, cast, or anything else!

The above statement should open up a whole new conversation. A few
months ago someone mentioned the book, “The Zen of motorcycle
maintenance”. Really good read, talks about quality. I am going to
get myself in trouble here but it has to be said.

The biggest problem in the art world is people who take a class and
think they are artists, in our conversation jewelers. PMC in a
jewelers hands will make a QUALITY piece, PMC in an amateurs hands
will make a piece of jewelry. That is my argument with CAD also. PMC
and CAD allow someone to enter the jewelry field with no basic
understanding of jewelry.

A one week class does not make you a good jeweler, but they take the
class and then start selling the stuff they make. In some cases start
teaching what they just learned.

Years ago even the costume jewelry of the day was very well made,
probably made better than most of the fine jewelry or what is called
fine jewelry today. Is there an answer who knows, but we have to
start somewhere. I think about the art shows 20 to 30 years ago when
they had great art, now most of them have amateur stuff.

Being a jeweler takes time and practice, something that most people
don’t want to do today. I made boxes of stuff that my dad had me melt
down and make something else, today that stuff would be sold, would
have made my life much more profitable.

Bill Wismar

46

I’m following this thread with amazement. It’s all about expressing
ourselves in the most accurate, meaningful way possible. The close
minded attitude about Metal Clay surprises me especially from
ARTISTS, the outside of the box free thinkers remember!

Like every new innovation you have your skeptics. When casting first
came on the scene years and years ago, people thought it was a
cheat. Now we realize some people really are excellent carvers and
can do amazing things.

When cad came on the scene same thing, it’s a cheat, not hands on,
blah, blah, blah. Those who have mastered it are doing things no one
could have dreamed of. They are more technically inclined and the
good ones create Wowzier pieces.

And now PMC - and other Metal Clays as well. Each and every new
innovation gets better as people learn and experiment with the
nuances. Yep, just like the others it has skeptics, it is actually
those people that helped move it along to what it is today. strong,
resilient and with many metals to choose from like gold, silver,
copper, bronze, steel, etc. Yep, in it’s early days folks with vision
were feeling their way in the dark, it was a material with potential.
The very sharing community that formed the Metal Clay arts after that
is amazing, and the generosity has propelled the technical
innovations by leaps and bounds. What you knew in the 90’s is old
school, lol. In less than 20 years it has come so far and it is still
a baby when you compare it to the hundreds of years of traditional
work.

Metal Clay was not created to replace traditional techniques, it is
meant to be another tool in your tool box. There are some methods
best done in the traditional way. HOWEVER, there are lots of things
you can now do which expand the creative process and can’t be done in
the traditional way, this is an individuals choice of expression.

You can choose to ignore Metal Clay or try it (with someone that can
get you up and going more quickly showing you the PROPER way to
sinter for strength etc.). Is it worth it? YOU BET YA. If you have
questions, who will help you? Safe to say just about EVERYONE using
it. Is it going away? NOPE.

So I will end this post with some Metal Clay eye candy. You may need
a drooling bib…

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81n2 (Terry Kovalcik)

Lizards Jewelry Wearable Art by Liz Hall (Liz Hall)

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81n4 (Gordon Uyehara, Saul Bell
award winner)

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81n5 (Christine Anderson - Saul Bell
award winne)

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81n6 (Wanaree Tanner - Saul Bell
award winne)

Drakonaria - Fantastic jewellery by Anna Mazoń (Anna Mazon - Saul Bell award
winner)

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/sa (Holly Gage, me)

Holly

47

On the other hand. when the open mind can’t compete with the talent
of Hans and sharing the joy of making it yourself by learning the
process from a master… I choose Hans.

Blessings to all levels of talent.

MA

48

PREJUDICE is prejudice, no matter how many seemingly reasonable
(thought uninformed) responses are made, and a closed mind is a
whole lot of of neurons going to waste.

Linda Kaye-Moses

49

Keeping things civil

Right now the discussion about metal clay is getting pretty heated.
I have great respect for Hans Meevis, and for Jackie Truty. I have
benefited from all the wonderful help Hans has posted on Orchid. And
years ago I experimented with metal clay, and benefited from all the
wonderful contained in Jackie’s excellently written book
on the subject. I tried the clay, but soon learned that it did not
lend itself to what I make and I abandoned it. The choice was mine.

The original post dealt with problem of the costs of working with it
and the need for proper firing in a kiln. Then suddenly, the
discussion veered off into criticism of it and those who use it.

We make jewelry because we love to create. Some fabricate, some
cast, some work with metal clay. Each chooses the medium that lends
itself best to what they make. Allare valid techniques.

Please let us be kind to one another and respect each persons choice
of themedium they choose to work in.

Alma

50 
PMC in a jewelers hands will make a QUALITY piece, PMC in an
amateurs hands will make a piece of jewelry.

Exactly Bill! And this is the same for ANY material, whether it’s
PMC, a sheet of 22K gold, some silver wires, a slab of copper, or
someone starting a design from CAD. You can have the best, most
expensive materials and you can still make crap with it. El

51

While it is true that beautiful things can be made with PMC (for
convenience, PMC in my response refers to all the precious metal
clays), it doesn’t mean that it happens. Most are things that could
be more easily made by construction, casting or chasing and
repousse, and made for far less money in materials (metals).

Years ago, I tried my hand in PMC as I didn’t have the money or
expertise to do lost wax casting. I was versed in construction and
chasing, but I was trying to make metal parts to fit irregular
objects. Needless to say, because of the horrendous shrinkage rate,
PMC didn’t fit the bill. Wax and cast metal have a dramatically lower
shrinkage rate than PMC.

I think that PMC has a long way to go before it is considered more
that a craft hobby, mostly because the vast majority of people using
it are amateur hobbies ts, not professional jewelers. In many ways it
suffers from the same perceptions as wire-wrapping; since it is
easily accessible to many people because of the relativity low
investment in equipment and expertise, many unskilled people produce
works in these mediums. This is not to say that some of them don’t
rise to artistry in some cases, but rather that most are pedestrian
in nature. It could and has been argued that much of today’s
commercial jewelry could also be so described. Many of the PMC
pieces remind me of enameling done in the 50’s and 60’s, not very
high-level or artistic in nature.

Many of the pro-PMC posts seem to me very defensive, and
contemptuous of the thousands of years (not hundreds) of
construction and casting. It’s little wonder that there is
controversy when you post in such an inflammatory way. I can
understand that you feel that the jewelry community disrespects PMC
people, but saying that working with PMC is equal to traditional
jewelry making techniques shows a shocking amount of naivet=e. I
went and looked at the “eye-candy” described on a previous post, and
only one site had anything that I would consider art. I know others
may feel differently. I think that reliance on stock texturing and
patterns contributes a great deal to the lack of respect conferred
on many of these pieces, and in my opinion, rightly so. When I was
in art school (a million years ago) they stressed doing something
different. If it had been done before, why bother (unless to master
some technique) to do it again?

Also, the whole “certification” business rubs me the wrong way. Is
the general population so stupid that they can’t read the
instructions that come with the clay? It smacks of an effort to
legitimize folks who have no background in jewelry or art. It’s
similar to the whole “artist” thing; anyone can self-describe as an
artist but it doesn’t mean they’re capable of producing art.

I say that the college jewelry classes are a lot to blame, in the
sense that they teach practically nothing that helps to produce
jewelry. At least mine didn’t. So much time was devoted to how to do
things "the old way"and not enough in how to efficiently produce
jewelry. We didn’t even have flex-shafts. And there were many
pre-requisites before you could take anything fun like chasing and
repousse and casting. They basically have blocked people who were
interested in learning the trade and only those with the time, money
and stamina will have the opportunity to learn more. Jewelry-making
has always been elitist and mysterious, and they have reaped what
they’ve sown. If you can make jewelry with clay and a kiln without
having to put up with technical schools and college, why the heck
wouldn’t you?

I do worry that the PMC is not as sturdy as traditional metal and it
might not stand the test of time. And I do think that most of it
(due to the lack of design and quality) will be sold at garage sales
in the future for about the price of the silver. But I’m hopeful
that some people will find a way to utilize it in extraordinary ways
and make beautiful objects. I, for one, strive to judge the piece,
not the methods used in order to make it.

Rant off.

52

That was a fun, artistic trip around the world, Holly!

53

This will tell you how old I am, I played with samples of the
original PMC before it came to market. I got use to the problems of
it, but it was too fiddly for me. It has improved with successive
formulations, Now this is my opinion of it. I did not like the
texture of the first formulas of the clay. But I can carve wax and
cast with the best of them out there. But I came to metal after a
long history in clay. The traditional throw a pot on a wheel and fire
it route. I can work in clay as well. It might be why I can work so
well in wax. SO CALL ME A FENCE SITTER. As for cost, which was the
original discussion, I find the clay and getting the tools more
expensive. But I have a kiln and such for casting. The tools for
wax, are some old dental tools my dentist gave me, and little alcohol
lamp. It’s tool wise what you get use too. Just like in fabrication,
(my preferred method) I have certain tools that I use, as opposed to
being a tool slut (which I am) and acquiring more fancy tools that
sit in or near my bench.

Again it is what you get used too. So for someone who has the tools
and is used to clay work, fine maybe it is cheaper. Reusing your
waste is a null argument since any jeweler worth their gold will
recycle or reuse their metals. I even reused my wax from large scale
sculptures that were then fired. It is what you are use to and know
how to work with.

I’m still sitting on the fence. As for is one medium better than
another, it depends on what you know and how much of your talent you
have invested in it. No metal clay will duplicate (may come close) to
a Fabrage Egg.

Yet I saw a couple things in the eye candy that can be duplicated,
but with hard work and better eyes than mine by fabricating. It would
seem for those pieces the clay would be better. But let me say it was
only a couple of things out of all the work. I looked and thought of
how it could be done in traditional fabrication. Maybe this all comes
down to speed? But again it depends on the experience and knowledge
of the artist and their medium.

A good traditional artist working in jewelry and other metal work is
amazing. Hans to me is a metals GOD! What he can do is a hairs
breath short of perfection on all counts. He has been generous, and
stimulating with is creations. I have also seen fired cast work that
is wonderful in both clay and wax work. To me it is the persons
experience and talent that shows in the medium they choose.

I choose the fabrication method simply because it is more than an
art form. It is therapy. long ago when my daughter was a teenager, I
found I needed to smash something out of frustration. I was drawn to
hammers, and thus metal. To me an anvil, a hammer and a blow torch is
better than prozac for a teenager. Some of my old friends are still
into clay, and wedge their clay to death. We all have our reasons. We
all have our methods. I for one have gotten so I’m seated firmly on
the fence, but I don’t let the posts invade my lower orafice. Thus I
don’t need to have said object removed.

Be kind
Aggie the old fence sitter.

54

I am delighted wqith the beautiful pieces made by these metal clay
maestros-- kinda makes me want to go back to it. And there have been
strongly-felt expressions all 'round. We have edged right up to the
border of bad behavior without anything too aggregious-- yet. It is
my personal hope that we can leave it here and move on.

Noel

55

Maybe I should have explained what I meant by reducing my costs –
When I use wax, I have to get it cast (I don’t know how to do it
myself), get it finished and polished (I don’t have the wherewithal
to do this and can’t afford the wherewithal) and each step adds a
charge that I have to add to what I charge for my piece. I don’t know
how you all figure out what to charge for a piece, but I generally
figure what it cost me and then add something for me. The clay, once
I get things set up, should allow me to charge less, giving me a
better chance to actually sell SOMETHING! (I have sold a few things,
but not too many).

Debbie

56

Hello Orchidland

Hey gang, there’s plenty of room for all kinds of options. To "PMC"
or not is hardly career-threatening. It’s all about exploring
technics and which fityour needs.

Be kind. Judy in Kansas, where a hard freeze has finally hit. Time
to cleanup the garden and haul compost.

57

My biggest problem with this list is reflected in part of this post
and part of this entire discussion – I have found the people on this
list to be snobs. I’m sorry, but you know, not everyone can be a
jewelry van gogh, so to speak. Some people are jewelry velvet
paintings and that’s ok if people buy what you make. I myself make a
lot of Jewish themed jewelry and I have quite a number of designs
that I’d like to take from paper to metal and working with wax, while
doable, just isn’t in my budget right now. To be honest, working in
silver altogether isn’t in my budget until I sell some “stuff”. So
I’m doing my best, trying to get and help without feeling
like I’m unprofessional and unartistic just because I don’t live up
to someone’s idea of perfection.

Somehow or another, I get the impression that I’m “vocalizing” what
others are feeling. Raise your hand if you agree :slight_smile:

Debbie

58

Holly, nice site – I liked some of the stuff on the links you sent.
Wish Icould afford you as a mentor – I’ve never had a mentor in
anything I’ve done in life (rarely have much even in the line of
moral support, but I digress). I could always use one, because I’m
pretty good at doing things that I understand how to do but I s***
terribly at things I don’t know how to do. Granted, I do, on
occasion, manage to figure things out on my own (thoughnot nearly as
often of people think).

In the meantime, I’ll just keep asking questions on the metal clay
group --thanks to whoever it was who recommended that.

Debbie

59

Thanks for that – I was beginning to feel guilty about bringing it
up! I did get a lot of VERY helpful answers (and joined a new group
:slight_smile: – thanks to all the people with the helpful answers)

Debbie

60

You’ve Got Your Metal Clay in my Metalsmithing!

So as I watch the controversy of PMC/Metal Clay and Metalsmithing I
came up with a crazy wonderful idea! I am proposing a studio share.
That’s right SHARE! An exchange of ideas, methods, and techniques.

Just send your name to me and I will match you up with another
artist.

Since we are all over the world this will be done over Skype. I
teach a lot this was for people who don’t live near me and as long as
you have a computer with a camera this is the next best thing to
being there.

It is like sitting across the table and you can do demos and watch
someone work. it’s awesome and like I said I do it all the time.

Don’t have Skype… it literally takes 5 mins to set up (REALLY!)
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81n8

This will be a positive learning experience for both the metalsmith
and metal clay artist allowing both to expand their tool box of
tricks.

Here is how it works.

First of all it’s FREE

Send your name to me at hgage1@ptd.net with the following

e-mail
Skype name:
Time zone:
Either Metalsmith and specialty:
or Metal Clay artist and specialty:

I will tell you who your match is and within a week of that
correspondence you will contact that person and set up a time you
can me. Plan of 3 or more sessions.

  • This is a generous use of someone’s time, so there is no room for
    rude behavior - Each person should give the other person the same
    amount of learning time.

  • Before the first session you discuss what you want to learn and
    you will send each other a tools and materials list. If you have
    literature even better.

Some exchanges may not be possible due to equipment limitations,
however…

If a kiln firing for metal clay is not available the Metal Clay
artist should be prepared to accept a piece by mail and fire for the
metalsmith. Likewise if the metalsmith will do the same for
equipment not available to the Metal Clay artist. (All postage should
be covered by the art project owner.) - I suggest you perform
equipment limiting functions as a demo via Skype if possible.

  • Please share with the forum how your experience went.

My goal is to match 5 metalsmiths and 5 Metal Clay artists, so first
come first served.

Ok, that’s the challenge! Be there or be square!

I’m doing this for the fun and learning, so once you make your match
my job is done. I am not liable should something go wrong in the
exchange. I expect people to act like adults and if you are not one
just don’t participate.

Best of creating!
~ Holly