Reducing costs by using PMC

Jewelry Discussion
21

I have a friend who is the US distributor for a new variety of the
metal clays, and I’m pretty sure these CAN all be torch fired. Here
is her website: Clay Revolution metal clay supplies and classes – ClayRevolution

I do NOT use it myself, so can’t speak to it personally, but Carrie
loves it, and have another friend using this new clay also…

Good luck!

Beth Wicker
Three Cats and a Dog Design Studio

22

Debbie, there’s a Yahoo discussion group called MetalClay that can
give you good advice.

Lorraine

23

OK, right, the base metal Prometheus Clays are described as being
torch-fireable. mea culpa!

Linda K-M

24

I have done bronze metal clay with a propane torch. No problems. do
it outside because of the fumes when first fired. I take a crucible
and turn it over with the flat side up and place the PMC on it and
torch it for about 5-10minutes until it starts to get glassy on the
surface.

Panama Bay Jewelers

25

Just to clarify. PMC is a brand name for Precious Metal Clay, which
is onlyin silver and sterling. Mitsubishi, which makes PMC, does not
have a standalone base metal clay. Generically, the medium is
referred to as “metal clay.” It’s like calling all rotary tools
Dremels, or all hammers Fretz.

Jackie

26

I don’t fire my PMC pieces, but rather leave them to dry on a
warming tray - it works very well (I do have a kiln, but I prefer the
warming tray method for PMC)

27

Reducing costs? of course not. you can not compare apples and
oranges. using PMC would be a totally different product.

28 
using PMC would be a totally different product.

Um, especially if you don’t fire it…

Maybe I misunderstood, but pieces just dried on a warming tray would
dissolve again on contact with water (among other problems).

PMC pieces can be very fine quality, reasonably durable, and in some
cases largely indistinguishable from or possibly better than pieces
done in traditional methods.

BUT! Not if they are not properly fired. And being truly fully
sintered is essential-- ESSENTIAL-- to quality (necessary but not
sufficient, as they say). AND you cannot get pieces truly properly
sintered short of a full-length firing, in a kiln, to the highest
temperature the material will tolerate without melting. Anything less
may be easier, or more convenient, but you are kidding yourself and
misleading your clients if you claim it is just as good. It might be
physically possible to get a piece fully sintered with a torch, but
as a practical matter no one is at all likely to hold a piece at high
enough temp, long enough, by hand.

This kind of cut corner is what gives metal clay a bad name.

I love silver clay, have used and taught it extensively. I got too
frustrated with the base-metal clays and have not kept up with
developments. I don’t mind what anyone chooses to do for their own
personal use as a hobby, but if you put things on the market, it is a
whole different matter.

OK, go ahead, thrash me.
Noel

29 
I don't mind what anyone chooses to do for their own personal use
as a hobby, but if you put things on the market, it is a whole
different matter.

Indeed.

There are two uses that I can see with PMC.

One is to introduce people to a starter form of jewellery making,
which is good-- and the other is to make money for the people that
supply it.

For the rest, there is nothing that one can do with PMC that cannot
be done better, neater, and cheaper with carving waxes.

I have never seen a piece made with PMC that is up to an
international standard.

When I see " Certified PMC Instructor " my BS meter hits bright
orange.

I would not mind so much if they admitted they are certified play doh
instructors but to insinuate that PMC makes quality jewellery is
just plain bollocks.

PMC simply dumbs down jewellery making and produces an inferior
product.

And if you don’t believe me, type in precious metal clay into Google
under images.

The pictures say it all.

It also consumes an inordinate amount of electricity in relation to
the finished product.

End of rant.

Note From Ganoksin Staff:
Looking for an electric kiln for your jewelry projects? We recommend:

30 
I don't fire my PMC pieces, but rather leave them to dry on a
warming tray - it works very well (I do have a kiln, but I prefer
the warming tray method for PMC)

So you have a warming plate that gets up to at least 1110F?

31

That’s all well and good, but some of us can’t afford a kiln.

Debbie

32 
PMC pieces can be very fine quality, reasonably durable, and in
some cases largely indistinguishable from or possibly better than
pieces done in traditional methods. BUT! Not if they are not
properly fired. And being truly fully sintered is essential--
ESSENTIAL-- to quality (necessary but not sufficient, as they
say). AND you cannot get pieces truly properly sintered short of a
full-length firing, in a kiln, to the highest temperature the
material will tolerate without melting. OK, go ahead, thrash me.

No trashing, you’re right. Metal clay is great for what it’s made
for. I don’t think it’s strong enough for certain settings, ring
bands, etc., but I prefer carving intricate 3D designs in it even
more than in wax. But if it’s not fully sintered, it’s not going to
be strong enough. And even if you use it for a pendant, earrings, or
decorative designs added to a fabricated ring (one of my favorites)
" things that wouldn’t need to be as structurally strong " it will
break or crack pretty easily. My torch-fired pieces were never as
strong as kiln-fired. So I now always kiln fire at the 1650. El

33

No thrashing here, Noel. Firing metal clay must be done properly.
Perhaps the poster meant something else than a warming tray? Judy in
Kansas, who truly believes in weather weirding. Still no freeze and
it’s nearly November! This winter will probably be a very cold swing
to an extreme.

34

Hi Noel,

No thrashing necessary. Good comments, and thanks for seconding me
re: torch-firing. I won’t teach torch-firing because I know it
doesn’t do the job. i. e. it doesn’t create objets that are fully
sintered. And full sintering is what is required for the objets to be
durable and beautiful. I always fire my fine silver metal clay (PMC3)
to 1650 degrees F for 2 and sometimes 2.5 hours, even though the
manufacturer’s instructions give shorter firing times and lower
temperatures. Gives me a good, strong objet.

Yeah, the base metals are a little more complicated, because of the
need to embed in carbon, but do-able. I’ve always felt that for the
amount of hands-on time required, it’s best applied to precious
metals, but I can understand the need to use the base metals. And, of
course, now there’s sterling metal clay, which also has to be fired
in an O2-depleted environment. And Celie has combined the sterling
with PMC3 to make a ‘clay’ that has the quality of sterling and
doesn’t need the carbon. Metal clays just keep on mutating, and
that’s a good thing.

Linda Kaye-Moses

35

Hello Hans, et al,

It’s helpful to remember that 90% of everything made is not high
quality, i. e. is s*****t, including everything made using milled
sheet, casting processes, and metal clay. This also includes
paintings, sculpture, well. every art form, doesn’t it (and housing
developments, roads, bridges, and national governments, too)?

That being said, take a look at the fondly titled metal clay Masters
Registry. This is the site for a good collection of well made
objects using metal clay. This is not a certification program. It
was designed as a method for metal clay users to challenge
themselves to make excellent work. Many of the pieces that
registrants have made are beautifully constructed. The designs may
not please you, but the objects throughout are carefully made and
well thought out. I do have to admit that I find the cost of the
registry to be a bit troubling and that the somewhat hidden agenda
is the amount of metal clay purchased to complete the ‘program’. OK,
chalk that up to my own minimal skepticism re: the motives for the
registry program. All that aside, the work produced is quite good.

Now, on to the certification programs. There is a misconception in
the metal clay community that the certification programs actually
produce teachers. The programs cannot and do not produce qualified
teachers. The programs are designed to certify that the attendees
can make a series of projects up to a high standard of quality. they
then are given the designation of Certified Artisans.

There are cert. programs that are described as teacher certification
programs, like this description for the Art Clay programs:
“Currently there are over 200 Senior Instructors within North
America. These Instructors have successfully completed both the
Level One and Senior Level Certification. They have the ability to
teach Introductory Classes, Level One Certifications, Senior Level
Certifications, and advanced specialty classes. Being a Senior
Instructor in Art Clay World, USA is an accomplishment; it reflects
expertise, knowledge and skill in the use of Art Clay Silver.”

You and I know that it takes more than that to create great
teachers, yes? What is learned is how to manipulate metal clay in a
variety of ways, how to use the tools, how to torch-fire where
appropriate (and I feel it’s never really appropriate, as I’ve
stated in previous posts), how to use a kiln firing precious and
base metal clays, how to finish and polish the sintered objects. all
necessary skills.

As I’ve also posted previously, metal clay is not simply an entry
into the world of manipulating metal, it is also, and importantly, a
way to produce metal objects, and even more importantly, from my
perspective being a jeweler for almost four decades, it is a new
’tool’ in my jewelry making repertoire. S’nothing to be sneezed at I
think.

And, dear Hans, what’s wrong with hobbies and those who indulge?
Making stuff is a good thing, at any skill level. And you know how
to get to Carnegie Hall. practice, practice, practice (and when
necessary, find good teachers). Eventually, hobbiests, those whose
avocations take them into our field, will demand of themselves the
skills that take them to higher levels of quality. We human beings
must make stuff, and want to make durable, interesting stuff. it’s
an unquenchable urge in our species. So, let’s cheer on the
hobbiests, because everyone has to start somewhere, and from their
ranks can come the next generations of us.

my rant over,
Linda Kaye-Moses

36

Ok I have to chime in here.

Hans, just go to the Masters Registry (google it), to see some of
the really amazing pieces folks make with the Precious Metal Clay.
Like any jewelry medium, there are badly executed pieces out there.
Another example of a good metal clay artist is Terry Kovalcik (google
him), and Tim McCreight and there are many many more excellent
artists who are also metal smiths using this new jewelry medium to
create unique and beautifully executed pieces.

Thanks I love these discussions!
Marilyn

37

Wow! That is some prejudice you have there. As someone “certified” in
Art Clay silver and having used and sold my pieces in galleries and
shows, I’m considerably offended. And I bet you have NEVER touched
metal clay, am I right? If you want to carve with waxes, be my guest,
but I don’t have the time or money for the expense of all that
equipment, and I DON"T want multiples. I want each piece to be one of
a kind, unique and hand made. The comment you made that metal clay
(PMC is a brand, not a medium) is dumbed-down jewelry making is
offensive. I assure you that I can make an Art Clay fine silver piece
that is indistinguishable from traditional metalsmithing. I won’t
stoop to your level by dismissing CAD/CAM people as not being true
jewelers as they never touch their metal but let others do the work,
or insult the work you do, but I can assure you that I’ve put 14
years into perfecting my art, and just because you don’t see the need
for another tool in jewelry making doesn’t make you right. It just
makes you ignorant.

38 
That's all well and good, but some of us can't afford a kiln.

I can’t help feeling that saying this is rather like saying I can’t
afford to feed a horse, but I’m going to keep one just the same.

Surely if you want to make something, you want to make it to the
best standard possible, and metal clays really do need to be
properly sintered at extremely high temperatures for it to be the
best it can be.

I tried using metal clays, bought a kiln etc and discovered that the
stuff really didn’t appeal to me as much as I thought it would. I
have far more fun and success with sheet metals. The kiln sits on my
bench awaiting the time I can fool around with enamels - though I
use it for annealing large pieces like cuff blanks and so on. I can
anneal several in one go in the kiln, and I can be doing something
more creative in the meantime!

Janet

39 
That's all well and good, but some of us can't afford a kiln.

You can build your own for significantly less than the price you’d
pay for a new one.

Elliot Nesterman

40

Torch firing is great if you want to make a rubber mold then
reproduce it bycasting it into metal of your choice. That is what I
use PMC for. I do get some great details on some things I do that
would take me many more hours to do any other way. As with anything
you have to test the limits to know when and where to use it.