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PNP Blue design does not adhere to metal


#1

I was heartily recommended to PNP and never having used it before, I
have been experimenting for several hours with no success.
Ultimately, I need to etch 14k gold and etch the design for a
commission with Gold Conductor Etch, Potassium Iodide Solid AU-1/250.

But in following the PNP directions, I have been unable to get the
design to adhere to the metal, despite following its directions –
cleaning metal with steel wool and rinsing with soap and water. I
have been measuring the temperature of the iron between 275 and 325
and varying the time between a minute and five minutes and the resist
just WILL NOT STICK. The sheets were printed from my in-house Brother
Laser Printer which I bought for the job for about $100.

Any thoughts on why I’m not getting this to work?

Thanks;
Carolyn Tillie


#2

Carolyn, Perhaps you need more heat from your iron. I recently gave a
workshop in photo etching and had the students bring their own irons.
It was surprising how much variation there was in the temperatures of
the irons.

Most of the participants found that they needed a much higher
setting than they thought in order to get a good transfer of the
design. Most of them took about 5 minutes before they got results,

Put a piece of paper toweling between the iron and the PNP, as a
precaution just in case you get the iron too hot—although I never
had this happen, even though I use the iron set on high. I keep the
iron moving constantly.

Try raising the heat of the iron be increments. PNP takes a lot of
heat.

Alma


#3
PNP takes a lot of heat. 

I’ve found the same to be true for me - I use paper towel in between
and put my iron on just below the hottest setting. Sometimes parts
of the PNP won’t adhere the first time. I carefully peek under a
corner and then apply the iron again until everything transfers.

Good luck,
Jeni


#4

Yes, the heat of the iron might be the problem, or, perhaps the
problem is that the design was made with a laser printer, not with a
toner-based copier?

I’ve been away from the list for a while, so forgive me if it’s been
discovered in my absence that PNP Blue works with laser printers.

Linda


#5
But in following the PNP directions, I have been unable to get the
design to adhere to the metal, despite following its directions --
cleaning metal with steel wool and rinsing with soap and water. I
have been measuring the temperature of the iron between 275 and
325 and varying the time between a minute and five minutes and the
resist just WILL NOT STICK. The sheets were printed from my
in-house Brother Laser Printer which I bought for the job for about
$100. 

First, don’t use steel wool. It has oil, which is the bane of clean
metal. Use sandpaper, scrubby pad or acrylic nail foam bars to remove
oxides and provide a lightly scratched surface resembling a very soft
satin finish. Clean your metal with a dish soap that is high in
surfactants (lifts grease and oil) and low in emollients (oil, lotion
or other greasy softening agents). In other words, "Cleans grease!"
is high in surfactant, “Soft hands!” is high in emollients.
Personally, I like to use No-Name Patina Prep (usual disclaimer). The
water should “sheet” off, with no breaks of water across the surface.
If you have areas that look dry and others that look wet, scrub some
more. Some people have very oily skin, so use gloves if you’re not
having success.

PnP Blue resist transfers between 400-425 degrees Fahrenheit.

Make sure you have printed on the matte side of the resist and not
the shiny side.

Your laser printer MUST use dry toner and not liquid toner.

Katherine Palochak


#6

Jeni, I have experimented with PnP and found that to ensure the PnP
adheres the first time, the piece should be rinsed with cool running
water immediately after removal from the iron. This ‘sets’ the PnP on
the metal and releases the acetate.


#7
But in following the PNP directions, I have been unable to get the
design to adhere to the metal, despite following its directions --
cleaning metal with steel wool and rinsing with soap and water. I
have been measuring the temperature of the iron between 275 and
325 and varying the time between a minute and five minutes and the
resist just WILL NOT STICK. The sheets were printed from my
in-house Brother Laser Printer which I bought for the job for about
$100. 

Carolyn - I hate to tell you this, but Brother is one of the laser
printer brands that uses a toner non-compatible with heat transfers.
I recommend that you try to put your design on your sheets using a
different heat-transfer laser printer (I use an HP for my image
transfer, but an old copy machine can also be very effective). When
I was looking into a different transfer system, I was told by the
manufacturer that the Brother name was to be avoided for laser image
transfer.

BBR - Sandi Graves
Stormcloud Trading Co (Beadstorm)
Saint Paul, Minnesota


#8

Carolyn -

But in following the PNP directions, I have been unable to get the
design to adhere to the metal, despite following its directions --
cleaning metal with steel wool and rinsing with soap and water. I
have been measuring the temperature of the iron between 275 and 325
and varying the time between a minute and five minutes and the
resist just WILL NOT STICK. The sheets were printed from my in-house
Brother Laser Printer which I bought for the job for about $100. 

My research on using PnP blue when I was getting ready to start using
it took me to a lot of circuit board forums, since those folks use
PnP all the time. In more than one place people complained about
Brother copiers/printers not working well with it. In fact, one of
the online vendors of PnP - Techniks.com - actually has posted on its
site that they have been receiving reports that PnP is not working
well with later model Brother laser printers and copiers. (Must be
something about the toner?)

They are at www.techniks.com, in case you want to take a look.

Your Brother printer may not be the problem, but then again…
Assuming you are still having difficulties despite addressing the
issues raised by other posters - I would definitely try running the
PnP on another toner-based copier, just to be sure it isn’t the
toner used by Brother.

I will say I have never used PnP on gold - only copper, brass and
silver - so don’t know how that affects adherence at all. Still, it
would not hurt to try it on another copier, just to be sure you’re
not driving yourself insane unnecessarily!

Rachel


#9

The problem with Brother printers may be the toner or it may be the
printing process.

Brothers are not technically laser printers since they don’t use a
laser. Instead they use an array of LEDs. For most things that’s a
distinction without difference, but I’ve noticed that my Brother
printers run noticeably cooler than, say, an HP laser printer.

RC


#10

Hi Everyone,

I also use PNP alot and I would like to add a tip for cleaning the
metal - I was taught that after preparing the copper with Bon Ami
and rinsing, rub with Acetone, rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover
and dry- I have always set my iron to Linen or Cotton and once the
PnP is set on the metal, I move the iron around and around, until I
begin to see the pattern show on the shiny side of the PNP - I have
seen folks copy their patterns on the WRONG side of the PNP paper-
the pattern must be on the dull, carbon side of the paper. The
problem could also be your copier as another member suggested- and as
you see the pattern forming on the shiny side of the paper, keep
going until the whole pattern is apparent. Let cool, then peel away
the edge carefully to see if it has adhered.

If not gently place it back, and go back to ironing - If not all of
the pattern has adhered you can let it cool and fill in the design by
hand with painting pens or black liquid resist. After I have my
pattern on the metal, I always go over it with painting pens to
thicken up the lines a bit and fill in small minute gaps. On the
final cleanup to remove the resist left behind on the pattern, run
straight acetone over the metal and rinse with water -

Hope this helps,
Patricia White


#11
Brothers are not technically laser printers since they don't use a
laser. Instead they use an array of LEDs. For most things that's a
distinction without difference, but I've noticed that my Brother
printers run noticeably cooler than, say, an HP laser printer. 

Pretty close guess. Actually it doesn’t matter if it’s leds or
lasers that activate the transfer drum to pick up the toner and
transfer it to the paper.

What is different is the chemical formulation and the temperature
that the toner powder melts and fuses to the paper. The old monster
HP printers like the IIIsi as an example had a 1000W halogen light
tube inside a 1 1/4 inch steel roller covered with a non stick
coating… this was the “fuser assembly’s” core. The hotter the
roller, the more pages you could print a minute.

Now that much heat makes for smell and isn’t “green” anymore so more
and more manufacturers are developing and using toner powders that
melt at a lower temperature. I suspect that you will see the same
problem start appearing in copiers as they try to green them up some
more too,

It’s really that simple. green does not always equal better

Kay