Oh no! a rusted groove on my rolling mill…!

Jewelry Discussion
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Hi,

oh no! i just noticed that my second biggest groove (square wire) is ever so slightly starting to rust!!! what should i do…?

so far, i have just put oil and and rubbing the groove with a cotton swab, to remove any loose surface rust…i am unsure what else to fo…so i will await any comments…

oh no……!

(and any comments about what oil/ grease i should apply for maintenance…

i will search out other rolling mill maintenance as well…ie: what accessible/ visible parts should be oiled/ greased…!

julie

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Simichrome, https://www.simichrome-polish.com/ on a lint free cloth should help. Do both rolls while you are at it, then oil again…Rob

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Hi Rob,

should i use a square profile piece if wood too?…

julie

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I was just wondering about mine today. How ofyen do you oil yours?

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I’m no master at this, I’m new, too, I’ve just watched a bunch of videos and listened to what others say, which I’ll now pass on to you.

So from what I’ve gathered, you should oil the rolls at the end of every day. You should also occasionally polish the rolls like maybe once a week with Autosol or something similar to protect them because I guess it gives a protective coating and then oil at the end of every day of use. I don’t use my rolling mills every day, like I haven’t used mine in a few weeks, I’ve been studying and not making, so I haven’t been oiling mine because I haven’t been using mine. And I noticed a couple of suspicious spots tonight actually. So oil more often even if you’re not using. But see, even that is variable because it depends on whether you live in a humid climate or a dry one. I live in a dry climate, BUT we’ve gotten a ton of rain lately and probably will all summer, which doesn’t usually happen, so I basically now live in a humid climate. It just depends. I keep mine wrapped in large clear plastic bags wrapped tightly around the bottom because I read someone else suggest that, and it sounded like good advice. Lots of people have lots of strong opinions on what oil to use. Some say you can really use just about anything, even WD-40. Some say absolutely never use WD-40. Everybody has their favorites and things they hate. I’ve used a couple of different things and honestly they all function about the same way really. A lot of people say to use a silicone-based oil. Mineral oil is generally good for tools, but it’s a pain to apply to rolls, you kinda need a spray unless you want to spend a lot of time applying oil to these rolls constantly by hand. Most people will say to sand off the rust with sand paper then work through the grits to get the high polish back. It works. But understand you’re going to be sanding these things forever, steel is so much more difficult to work with and it’s not like you can use an orbital sander on it because it’s round so you’re going to be doing it by hand. I’m STILL trying to work my way through all the grits, and it’s been a long time. Mostly because I hate doing it and so don’t work at it often. It’s easier to just oil them a lot and not let them get rust in the first place. Also, if you’re using pickle, don’t just rinse the piece off with water when you pull it out, put a little baking soda in your rinse water to neutralize the acid completely on the piece. This is good practice in general because over time remaining pickle on your metal can eat into your other steel tools, not just your rolling machine, and you’ll have to sand and polish those, too. There are a ton of discussions on here about rust on rolling machines, too, in the archives and a lot of good different advice and things to try. I’ve also heard other people say make sure your pickle pot is as far away from your rolling machines and steel tools as possible because just the fumes can cause problems even if it’s usually got a lid on it. I hope this helps. Hopefully more experienced people will also comment and impart more wisdom than I can because I’m a little curious about this myself because omg there’s got to be an easier way to get rust off than sanding because this really sucks.

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Just when you think the freaking tiktok reels demanded are too much lol Thanks so much for this. I had no idea.

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Depending on the amount of metal damage, you might be able to just get away with working the cloth into the grooves and polishing them. I suppose a softer piece of wood that conforms to the shape of the groove could be used covered with the cloth. If you still have damage that can’t be removed this way, then you need to move on to more aggressive abrasives. Hans Meeves has a video of how to do this on flat rolls. Think back to what you were rolling. Recently pickled copper that you don’t get completely rinsed and dry can really do a job on your rolls. I polish my rolls often or when they need it. This means when I remember. I oil often too with a light oil like 3 in 1. Good luck…Rob

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I wrote an article about rolling mills for SNAG’s Metalsmith magazine about 5 or 6 years ago. I interviewed a pile of people including jewelry artists who used rolling mills, and folks who make them, Matthew Durston, owner of Durston, Tony Aizenman, owner of Pepe, and Sean Seo, owner of Best Built.

They all said pretty much the same thing. Keep the rollers clean and oiled and to wipe the rollers before and after every use. A light oil like 3 in ONE is often recommended as the best oil.

Here’s a great video from Pepe about rolling mill maintenance:

Rust is different from carbon steel staining or discoloring. What to do about rust depends on how bad the rust is. If it’s just a little bit of rust, then a fine abrasive will remove it. You might need something more abrasive than Simichrome to remove rust. If it’s a lot of rust, then the rollers will have to be removed and sent to a specialty machinist to refinish them.

Many people don’t know that high carbon steel rolling mill rollers aren’t tempered consistently throughout. The center of the rollers are soft/annealed and the outer surface is hardened. That allows for the rollers to kind of have an internal shock absorber. Otherwise the rollers can crack over time. Tony Aizenman told me that he lost a whole pallet of rollers once because they weren’t tempered correctly.

The varied tempering means that you can only totally resurface rollers at a machine shop so many times before the you will compromise their integrity.

Steve Midgett, the mokume gane expert, told me a great trick that he uses on his rolling mills. He wedges in oil soaked foam at the top and bottom of the rollers in between the frame and the rollers. That way his rollers are always cleaned and oiled after every use.

I had an old unmounted Cavallin rolling mill on the floor of my studio once (which is an old shed). There was a flood with spring snow melt that I didn’t catch for a bit. The rollers got very rusted. I had to pull the rollers and send them to a machinist that Otto Frei used. Now it’s good as new, but it was quite an ordeal. My advice is don’t do what I did and keep up on the maintenance.

It sounds like you caught your mill in the early stages of rusting Julie. It should be an easy fix and just a good reminder to keep up on regular maintenance.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

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Thanks for all the clarification. It’s always a good idea to talk to the manufacturers. I forgot about the sponge wedges as continuous oilers. They work well. I too use the method by which you pull a cloth through and stop it with, in my case, a piece of plastic pipe. I don’t know as that will polish all of the grooves. They need to be done by hand. I have even used butcher string for this, just be careful that you don’t start a smaller groove. I am going down right now to polish my rollers. Then I will water the shrubs since we haven’t seen rain in weeks. This is unusual for a Central NY spring, it is typical of summer. My wife and I were discussing how climate change has impacted us. This may be one way…Rob

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For me summer time humidity is a painful phase with rusting tools. It will be interesting to see how the weather plays on the US East Coast this summer. It looks like it could go either way.

Thanks Rob!!

Jeff

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That’s why I run a dehumidifier in my shop year round. It takes a while for it to get the humidity level down and be able to keep it down…Rob

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Hi,

ok…3-in-1 oil…thats what i normally use…

…a few years ago, i made a cover out of a nylon canvas fabric that has a pvc backing …i hope the pvc is not a bad thing…it was an extra a/c cover…

jeff- interesting that you mention carbon steel staining/ discoloration…i was rolling down some wire, and i noticed that the second largest groove was darker…upon inspection i freaked out!!

julie

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Hi,

i have square profile balsa wood…that i use as mini sanding sticks…i shall try that, with cloth and simichrome…gotta finally order some!

…maybe also try wrapping it with my finest grit polishing cloths…

julie

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Go one step at a time. You don’t want to have to undo something…Rob

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Hi Rob!
ok, so true!!!
julie

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Hi,

hmmm…due to VOC, simichrome is not sold in/ to my state…

is there another product that is similar…?

julie

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Amazon sells it. Will they not ship it to your state? It is all that I have ever used, but I am sure that there are similar products. If I can find one, I will let you know…Rob

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Look at Flitz…Rob

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I’ve had good luck with Evaporust. It’s a liquid you soak rusty metal parts in, which converts the rust to black iron oxide that rinses off. The nice thing about it is that it’s non-abrasive, so you aren’t distorting the shape of the grooves. Once you’ve cleaned off the rust, inspect carefully to see if any deep pits formed; those might need to be remedied somehow; either by re-turning or strategic sanding.

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That’s one of the things I wish I had learned right away. It’s not just the rolling mills. It’s your hammers, punches, stamps, dapping blocks, mandrels, pliers, anvils, bench blocks, drill presses, etc. Keep everything made of steel oiled. Basically everything should be really greasy lol. If you’re not sure if something is steel or not, oil it anyway. When in doubt, oil it. I just finished reading a book on shaping your own steel punches. You have to be careful using a belt sander on steel because the heat generated from the belt sanding can mess up the tempering on your steel tools and then you have to retemper them, which isn’t a simple thing to do if you don’t generally work with steel, which is why most people will just take the long route and sand and polish steel tools by hand to be on the safe side. I think this is probably why most seasoned smiths end up with apprentices, the tool maintenance alone in a fully equipped shop is a full time job. Oiling your tools and keeping them in an airtight sealed container is really ideal, but that’s not exactly feasible with some tools because of the shape/size. I don’t really know much about working with steel and ferrous alloys except what I’ve only recently read about, but it really makes me wonder why we haven’t come up with a good ferrous alloy for tools that doesn’t rust. Is stainless steel much softer than regular steel and that’s why it’s not used for tools?? I don’t know. I know enough to know that I don’t know much. On that note, I’m going to go through this entire thread now, write down everything everyone said, and look at every single link everyone posted to see if I can pick up some more tricks and tips. There’s a lot to this. I read something a year ago that said goldsmithing isn’t that hard. I’ve now realized that person had absolutely no idea what they were talking about lol

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