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Krugerand question


#1

My mother recently gave me a one ounce gold Krugerand for my
birthday, and I haven’t a clue as to what to do with it. Can I heat
it and run it through my rolling mill and use it for stock? Alloy it
to 22k…and how? Or should I sell it and use the proceeds for
stock…In that case, where the heck would I sell it? All info will
be appreciated as i have no familiarity at all with this.

Thanks,

Lisa, (bewitched, bothered and bewildered by a big ol’ gold coin!)
Topanga, CA USA


#2

Krugerands are already 22kt. gold. They weigh more than 1 oz, because
they contain one ounce of fine gold. Not all gold coins are 24kt. At
Kitco today, Krugerands are $614.95, gold is $592.10. Depending on any
premium you might pay on fine gold, and Kitco’s buy price is $584.90,
you could lose $40 by selling it, plus there’s no point. Krugerands
are as clean of gold as you’ll find. You can alloy them at will, just
remember you’re starting with 22 kt.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#3
just remember you're starting with 22 kt.

Thanks, Perfect. I work in 22k. I guess it looks a bit pink because
of the copper?

Lisa, (Word up…small towns and committees do not mix…)
Topanga, CA USA


#4

If it were me, I’d salt it away for a while. You may just get a good
return on it. Hey, it was free, so you already made 100%, right ? :wink:

Brian Corll
Vassar Jewelers


#5

Lisa,

Krugerands are not to good for alloying. Tell your mother next time
to get a Canadian Maple Leaf, they are truely 99.9999% pure as the
metal is electro purified.

Dan


#6

Lisa

I suggest that you look up on the net what a kruger rand is and then
decide what to do with it. Many ppl use them as they are and set them
in settings…see if you would get more money for just the gold or
the actual piece/coin.

Raakhi
South Africa


#7

A Krugerrand is 22k, so if that’s where you need it to be, you don’t
need to alloy it further. You’ll find that, at 22k, it weighs
slightly more than a troy ounce (1.0909 oz), so that it contains
exactly one troy ounce of gold. Once it held legal tender status, it
could be owned here in the US. Apartheid caused it to become illegal
to own, but once that was lifted, US citizens’ ownership became legal
again.

Personally, I melt and roll them for stock whenever I get my hands
on them.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL


#8

Hello Lisa,

the Krugerrand is a cool coin, if you like that kind of stuff. If you
use it for alloying keep in mind that a Rand is only.916 fine. So you
have to do the math. It is worth the market price of gold.Yesterday
Kitco charged $618 and change. You wouldn’t get that if you sell it,
if you scrap it you only get 96% minus the refining charge. My vote is
to keep it and make something nice with it, a pendant or a bracelet,
a box. That way you wear a very cool piece of jewelry with a coin
your mother gave you for a birthady. Think about it before you do
anything.

Have a wonderful day,
Hans


#9
A Krugerrand is 22k, so if that's where you need it to be, you
don't need to alloy it further. 

A krugerrand is .999, not 22k. Could you be donfusing it with the
Eagele?

Jerry in Kodiak


#10

A Krugerrand is 22 karat gold or if you prefer .916 2/3 fineness but
it contains 1 oz of pure gold. (33.933 grams of 22 karat)

Greg DeMark
If You Like Antique, Vintage or Custom Jewelry
Visit us on the web at:
www.demarkjewelry.com


#11

Very embarassing. :-[ I googled “Krugerrand fineness” and only read
the first headling which leads one to believe the coin is .999. Went
back and read it again, this time the WHOLE thing and learned it was
in fact .916. As one who is critical fo those who post bum info I am
DOUBLY embarrased. :-[ :-[

Jerry in Kodiak


#12

I have no direct experience but it seems to me that coin gold is
going to be a harder alloy than the 22K you’re used to for jewelry
work. Just tap the two metals with a hard point and see if there is a
difference. You might be better off to cash in the coin and buy the
material that suits your project. Or keep the coin for that
inevitable rainy day.


#13

Yesterday Noel lamented the privation of evidence in some persons
responses. Some examples were referred, and I authored one of them.
Today Ron Mills seconded Noel’s assertion, so I for one will confer
some evidence for my answer about Krugerrands. I will supply
anecdotal evidence only because scientific evidence would take more
time than I have to confirm. Perhaps I will refrain from responding
in the future if only scientific evidence is desired.

As was stated in other posts, the Krugerrand is not 24kt gold, but,
22kt. Some people make the assumption that the mint starts with pure
gold, it doesn’t. The one ounce pure gold in a Krugerrand is derived
through assay, and the gold source can vary with one or several
impurities such as, but no limited to, lead, tin, zinc and cadmium,
all in unspecified amounts. The copper that is added also can be
assumed to be pure, it is not. I don’t believe the mint ever stated
anything beyond industrial grade copper was used (my knowledge is
about 22 years arrears) and it is not pure as well. If anyone were
to go to their local supplier and purchase copper sheet, it would not
be pure even though it was sold as such. Pure copper is very
difficult to handle because of its high electrical and thermal
conductivity and affinity for oxygen. Copper will not only absorb
oxygen from the air, but, from liquids, gels, and oils were the
oxygen would other wise be stable. Industrial copper is alloyed at
the ore processing out stage with two percent of one of several
different alloys, depending on it’s destination. So at this point
Krugerrands have impurities from two sources.

I do not know from personal experience the efficacy of Krugerrands
in the casting process, however, in fabrication the use of
Krugerrands as 22kt or alloyed to both 14kt and 18kt, I have
extensive experience. The alloys are able to be rolled, but, with a
slightly smaller pinch than you would normally use (pinch is the
amount of reduction between passes) and one less pass before
annealing. One dressing pass should be used after the last annealing.
If the fabrication uses forming and/or substantial soldering, surface
cracks will cover the entire piece. These cracks are very small and
narrow, and appear in a pattern similar to dried mud. The cracks are
easily polished away with tripoli, but, the roots remain and part
failure is eventual. In my experience the part failure was a few
years down the road.

I attempted to mitigate the cracking process by adjusting my ingots
to reduce the amount of rolling needed to get to the usable
dimensions I needed. There was less or no surface cracking, but, the
metal lacked strength for forming, and broke in the fabricating
stage. I attempted to push the rolling process hoping to produce
enough heat (I have a 6" x 3 1/2", 2hp Cavalin production rolling
mill) to improve the results. The ingot fractured severely. I have
also worked with miniature gold ingots of the non-certified type you
can get overseas (from the US as POO) mostly Hong Kong and India.
While having less problems than Krugerrands, I found them difficult
to use for any moderate to severe forming. By moderate to severe I
mean that in my shop we do spinning, drawing, deep drawing, radical
deep drawing, stamping, swaging and coining. The only coin I find
except-able for alloying, in fact preferred to the mill, is the
Canadian Maple Leaf. The Maple leafs are formed from gold that is
extracted by ectro-chemical stripping, precipitated, melted, and then
elctro-deposited on to titanium. After being physically stripped from
the titanium it is vacuum melted and formed into sheets. The scrap
after punching is not re-melted, but, goes back to the front of the
process to begin again. It is guaranteed to 99.999% pure, it is in
fact 99.9999%, but, I believe the mint is afraid to extend that
guarantee.

Dan
Daniel Culver


#14
I have no direct experience but it seems to me that coin gold is
going to be a harder alloy than the 22K you're used to for jewelry
work. Just tap the two metals with a hard point and see if there is
a difference. You might be better off to cash in the coin and buy
the material that suits your project. Or keep the coin for that
inevitable rainy day 

Seems to me that if you’re going to work any metal, you’ll have to
anneal it at some point anyway, so why take the loss by cashing in
the coin (for which the dealer will give you below melt value) to buy
new material (for which there will be a fabrication charge, even for
casting grain), when you can just heat and quench to anneal it?
That’s practically like giving away ten percent (possibly more) of
what you already have. 22K is pretty fine quality, I suggest you keep
and use it.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL


#15

James, Yes one would likely experience a loss in weight by cashing
in and buying stock. My own view is that I would rather pay more to
have the appropriate material. The savings is in efficiency. If one
is charging $100 per hour, the $60 odd dollar initially lower cost of
gold gets eaten up pretty quickly reprocessing the raw material to a
configuration and (hopefully) working characteristic that suits the
job. Of course it depends on what it is that you’re doing with the
gold. But I’m also mindful that cash is king. Sometimes its a
balancing act.


#16

James, Yes one would likely experience a loss in weight by cashing in
and buying stock. My own view is that I would rather pay more to have
the appropriate material. The savings is in efficiency. If one is
charging $100 per hour, the $60 odd dollar initially lower cost of
gold gets eaten up pretty quickly reprocessing the raw material to a
configuration and (hopefully) working characteristic that suits the
job. Of course it depends on what it is that you’re doing with the
gold. But I’m also mindful that cash is king. Sometimes its a
balancing act.


#17

Hi, Dan,

I get the sense from the tone of your post that you are offended,
and if so, I’m sorry. Your explanation of your results working with
Krugerrands was well worth eliciting, however! I have one that I was
assuming I would roll out, eventually, and now I believe I will not.

The clarity and detail of the you gave is very helpful,
and to my mind, it demonstrates my original point, that it is much
better if people explain the reasons behind their assertions. It
isn’t that I meant to challenge people to “prove” they know what
they’re talking about. I just want to know the why and wherefor
behind the statement so I understand, and know whether it applies to
my situation.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to share your experience!

Noel


#18

Daniel,

Is the Maple Leaf 22k? I know that when I lived in Atlanta and
visited my local supplier he told me to get the Maple Leaf for a pure
metal supply.

Jennifer
Ventura, CA


#19
I attempted to push the rolling process hoping to produce enough
heat (I have a 6" x 3 1/2", 2hp Cavalin production rolling mill) to
improve the results

Dan, Would you kindly expand upon that? I’m uncertain where the heat
you hoped to produce comes from. Are you making a bigger pinch,
increasing friction?


#20
Is the Maple Leaf 22k? I know that when I lived in Atlanta and
visited my local supplier he told me to get the Maple Leaf for a
pure metal supply. 

Maple leafs are 24kt

David Geller
www.JewelerProfit.com