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#1

Hi all, can I just ask that when you post on Orchid that you try not
to abbreviate words, I am not up to all the different ones, I don’t
text on my phone ect, I tend to use my phone to speak into not as a
typewriter.

I know I may sound old fashioned but I will be happily turning 50
this year , the time you save on shortcuts in your typing is spent 10
times over at my end trying to figure out what all the letters are
short for.

Christine in the Ridge on a lovely autumn day.


#2

Christine, I’m older than you, and have realized that it’s easier to
learn the abbreviations than trying to convince people to not use
them. They are already part of our quickly changing e-language.

A few that I can think of that I’m seeing on Orchid are:

IMHO - “In my humble opinion”.
LOL - “laugh out loud”.
BTW - “by the way”

There are many that are alluding me at the moment, but I’m sure
others will be happy to add to the list. Jot them down and learn
them, and you’ll be using them before you know it, IMHO.


#3

Christine,

If your concern is for internet typing shortcuts it may be helpful
for you to look at internetslang.com

IMH = in my humble opinion
637 = always and forever
AAB = average at best
IAE = in any event
etc.

Mary A


#4

Try this website…

http://acronyms.silmaril.ie/cgi-bin/uncgi/acronyms

You just enter the acronym and press the “Acronym search” button.

Regards, Gary Wooding


#5

It may seem cumbersome, but if you type the acronym into Google
search, you will get an immediate answer…the more you do it, the
fast you will learn them…but be careful, new recruits keep on
coming


#6

I am not interested in learning a whole set of abbreviations to prove
I am hip. Learning how to write well, or better, has been one of the
most delicious pleasures of my life. I think too many of the rules of
language have been trashed and I find it difficult to accept that
this too has gone to Hades in a handbasket. With that said, I hope
that the members of Orchid will continue to use the very best form
they know, perhaps with the intent of honing those language skills if
necessary. It not only makes you seem a bit more classy, it helps to
communicate more precisely the being presented.

It is important to remember that English is not the first language
of some users and they must copy and paste the text into translating
software to understand what has been written. How unfair to pollute
the situation with laziness in writing.

It would also be helpful, for those of us who tend to have a lot to
say, to break up the content into smaller paragraphs instead of the
long, long, long, things that are sometimes posted. I for one do not
have a lot of time to read long tomes, more to the point, I don’t
have the patience. It is just visually easier to parse out the
and not have to put a sheet of paper or a ruler up to
the screen to find the beginnings and endings of sentences.

Middle ground on the paragraphs, no abbreviations other than the
normal ones. That’s my vote. IMHO

Nel


#7
I think too many of the rules of language have been trashed and I
find it difficult to accept that this too has gone to Hades in a
handbasket. 

Hear, hear! Thank you, Nel. (And you’ll notice I didn’t write “Here,
here.”)

Bad English is rampant, it seems, especially on the World Wide Web.
Childish abbreviations, the use of “loose” for “lose”, and such are
grating on the eye, and interrupt the flow of reading.

You make a good point about the confusion to correspondents from
other countries, though many are more skilled in the language then
the average American.

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ


#8
to break up the content into smaller paragraphs instead of the
long, long, long, things that are sometimes posted. 

Those run-on, stream of consciousness, no punctuation, no grammar, no
paragraph postings just get dumped, I’m afraid, completely unread.
There are a few notorious posters of those - I’m afraid we just
don’t read them at all. Occasionally there’s that sort of thing from
an English as a second language person - those we read. Otherwise
it’s straight to the round file.


#9

Nel, I love it that you signed off on your last missive with IMHO!
Too funny considering the topic. BTW, LOL, I do agree that when
writing to this venue people should not use computer-easy acronyms.
For the very reasons that you stated. When something is worth saying,
well, just say it. It’s not like we are sending a text message on the
telephone, where it would take forever to punch in all the letters on
that tiny key pad.

Linda Lankford


#10
Those run-on, stream of consciousness, just get dumped, I'm
afraid, completely unread. I'm afraid we just don't read them at all. 

i feel that however one would like to express themselves is what i
want to read, i have read some enlightening comments, and
interesting questions in this forum by taking a little time to read
and understand what the person is getting at, everything is not
cut and dry as some might like, dave


#11

People rely on “spell check” to make sure that the words are spelled
correctly. Unfortunately, “spell check” can not tell you if to, too
or two is used correctly, just if they are spelled correctly. Thus
the incorrect words are used, and because they are not highlighted,
underlined or some other indication that they are misspelled, the
writer assumes that they are correctly used.

In a similar vein, may all that is holy to you help the youth of the
world when their computers and or calculators break and they
actually have to try to figure out some formula using a Naperian
logarithm. By the way “naperian” is not recognized by my spell
checker.

John
John Atwell Rasmussen, Ph.D., AJP
http://www.rasmussengems.com
http://rasmussengems.ganoksin.com/blogs/


#12

If one has limited time and is providing a lot of in a
post, whomever needs the will, I’m betting read what the
poster has to say, no matter what format the poster chooses to use.
You grammar police and dumpers of perhaps valid or new knowledge,
skills or techniques, seem to be being a bit on the VERY petty side
regarding grammar- In a perfect world, it would be nice to answer
the hundreds of emails I myself get in a day in the queen’s English,
however this world is far from perfect- and considering the
is intended for novice jewelers- for the most part -
asking questions that experienced jewelers and metalsmiths already
know the answer to, why are you opening them in the first place if
not for having something to complain about or simply because you
have time on your hands and an opinion that you want to assert?

This topic comes up frequently - regarding grammar, but for some of
the respondents to the subject to continually discuss their method
of trashing posts as though that action somehow serves an altruitstic
purpose for the common good of spreading about jewelry,
metallurgy,lapidary, marketing, business and creative work and it’s
interpolation, and other frequently revisited subjects ( for those of
you that do not know it there is an ARCHIVE on Orchid that may answer
all your questions and save us rambling stream-of-conciounness style
writers some time in trying to give you some free assistence) such as
sources for buying " x ", or the differences in fluxes or those
self-promoting articles that reappear frequently, some by almost
daily posters…I wonder what the problem is…

is it that you simply can’t wrap your heads around differences in
poster’s styles of expression or that, yours is the only way that is
right regarding anything at all? I am baffled by the resurgence of
this subject again…what the hell difference does it make if someone
does not indent - particularly if the content is valuable or teaches
you something you may not know already…though that is a rarity in
itself I’m sure!


#13
I think too many of the rules of language have been trashed and I
find it difficult to accept that this too has gone to Hades in a
handbasket. 

I am in complete agreement! However, language is fluid, flowing and
reacting to changes in the world and to us people that inhabit the
world. These abbreviations are reactions to the changing world of
communications. Look into the past, at the abbreviations used with
Morse code. Some of these abbreviations may even be the same.

That being said, I too have trouble with these changes. I think they
have gone too far, and may in fact be done in some cases to OBSCURE
meaning rather than make it easier to communicate.

Using a pre-cell-phone abbreviation (acronym) KISS! Keep It Simple,
Stupid. For clarity among us all, KISS


#14

Bad English is rampant, it seems, especially on the World Wide Web.
Childish abbreviations, the use of “loose” for “lose”, and such are
grating on the eye, and interrupt the flow of reading. You make a
good point about the confusion to correspondents from other
countries, though many are more skilled in the language “then” the
average American.

I agree totally. Language is what we humans use to communicate with
one another. When we corrupt it, we diminish our capacity to
communicate.

There, their and they’re are not the same. They are homonyms (they
sound alike but have different meanings).

Ray Grossman
Ray Grossman Inc.
Inventors and Manufacturers of
Jump Ringer Systems


#15
Those run-on, stream of consciousness, no punctuation, no grammar,
no paragraph postings just get dumped, I'm afraid, completely
unread. 

I wholeheartedly agree. I have occasionally read them, and there are
some very intelligent folks who have some very useful things to say -
but it’s just too difficult to read such tomes. It’s simply laziness
to not punctuate a piece of writing or split it into sensible,
readable paragraphs. It takes so long to try and make sense of such
lazy writing, that I simply don’t bother.

Spelling mistakes such as loose instead of lose, do annoy me but I
can tolerate that. I have made spelling mistakes myself in posts -
even though spelling’s a big issue for me - and I’ve cringed when
I’ve seen my post appear the next day. We all do get confused
sometimes and spell a word wrongly, even if we are sticklers for
spelling. But lazy writing with no punctuation or paragraph breaks is
VERY annoying indeed.

I have a great deal of respect for those folks for whom English is a
second language, and marvel at their eloquent use of the English
language in their Orchid posts - English which is often better than
that used by English and American members! And as has been pointed
out, we should use better English, particularly for those members
using other languages.

I personally can’t stand this new way of communicating with
abbreviations - but I’m afraid it’s here to stay. Although I have
been known to use the odd abbreviation, such as btw (by the way) -
my bad (as you say across the pond). When I was a school teacher, it
was apparent that the English language and how to use it, is simply
not being taught effectively anymore, with the attitude "as long as
you can understand what they’re trying to say, it doesn’t matter"
prevailing. Then the pupils would come into my science class and
exhibit the poorest of reading and writing skills, which I spent
hours of my own time trying to correct - to little effect, as none of
the other teachers (including the English teachers) seemed to bother.
Then, coupled with this new text language, our youngsters are
completely losing the ability to use the English language properly -
which obviously means that at some point in the next few
generations, the English language as we were taught it, is going to
pretty much disappear! A very sad state of affairs as far as I’m
concerned.

Sorry for the rant, but as you can tell, I’m on the side of
retaining proper use of the English language.

Helen
UK


#16

Greetings all:

For the those among us who favor the traditionally hand-crafted
version of the English language, there’s a great book I’d like to
share with you if you haven’t seen it already:

“Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation”.
It’s on amazon for about $10 USD. Definitely worth a read. Howlingly
funny in spots, if you’re the type to get the jokes.

http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/1592402038.htm

Regards,
Brian.


#17
is it that you simply can't wrap your heads around differences in
poster's styles of expression or that, yours is the only way that
is right regarding anything at all? I am baffled by the resurgence
of this subject again..what the hell difference does it make if
someone does not indent - particularly if the content is valuable
or teaches you something you may not know already..though that is a
rarity in itself I'm sure! 

We all form opinions of the credibility of those we communicate
with. When the communication is restricted to the postings on a list
the credibility of he poster is judged based on the contents of the
postings. When the poster is writing in a language that is not their
native tongue it is usually obvious and that is taken into
consideration. When it is apparent that the writer is writing in
their native tongue the expectations are much higher.

Typos happen and, at least to me, do not affect the evaluation of
what is being said. (I say this because I am the typo king!). The
same goes for punctuation; many of us are not proficient in the
correct placement of things like ; and : etc. When it comes to the
spelling of common words it is another matter; If I see your instead
of you’re or lose instead of loose or any of the other common
misused spellings, I tend to think that the writer is not too bright.
The use of the incorrect word is not a “style of expression” - if it
happens occasionally, it is probably an accident. If it happens
consistently, it is an indication of ignorance or laziness.

There are general conventions of style that exist because they make
it easier to communicate ideas to others. Deviations from those
conventions are frowned upon unless there is a valid reason for the
deviation. A writer is expected to use “sentence case” unless
special emphasis is needed. Using all caps except to emphasize a
point is considered to be inappropriate. Using all lower case is also
frowned upon - E.E. Cummins did pull it off but the story line made
it acceptable.

Paragraphs exist to improve the readability of the text - just like
spaces between words. If it is OK to eliminate one, why not the
other?


#18
You make a good point about the confusion to correspondents from
other countries, though many are more skilled in the language then
the average American. 

I’m reluctant to join discussions involving grammar and such because
there are so many pitfalls, such as in Al’s statement above. We all
fall prey to the spooks of usage.

I agree that a good deal more effort should be placed in getting it
right. We do excuse little blunders because they just kind of happen.

Cheers,

Bill
Zero-D Products, Inc.
precision engineered materials solutions
http://www.zerodproducts.com


#19
the English language as we were taught it, is going to pretty much
disappear 

I’ll bet they said much the same thing in the 12th century, with the
advent of Norman culture over Saxon. (What? you mean English is
French?) Have you tried to make it thru Shakepeare lately. I couldn’t
in school and I’d bet its worse now. If you could speak with Ben
Franklin I think you’d have a hard time ‘getting it’.

The language evolves to suit its users, so learning new acronyms is
not a bad idea. But this doesn’t absolve writers of the reponsibilty
to get their message across. Certain tools of writing (new paragraphs
for new ideas as an ex., editing as another) can be used they way we
use our burnishers or files to refine our jewelry message.

TTYL


#20
Although I have been known to use the odd abbreviation, such as btw 

A different class of abbreviation, to my way of thinking. Every
subdivision of communication has jargon. In some cases, such as
scientific or engineering jargon, the use of uncommon words and
abbreviations, or the specialized meanings of common words, is for
precision. In other cases, such as communication by computers, it
was originally for efficiency, to preserve precious bandwidth, and is
now traditional. In both cases, the usage is well understood and
normal in context. That’s why abbreviations like btw or imo are
proper language in the context of bulletin boards, email lists,
Usenet, and other computer-based fora. They are well understood by
experienced users, even those whose native language is not English.
To a software engineer, hash is not necessarily corned beef and
potatoes. That’s OK, too, when talking to other software engineers.

The use of the wrong word (loose for lose, there for their) is not
acceptable in any context, though it is excusable for non-native
speakers. English is not an easy language.

The new abbreviations we see now (u for you, ur for your or you’re)
strike me as the written equivalent of baby talk, but that’s just
me. They may be normal in some context, but my impression is that the
context is school kids texting each other when they’re supposed to
be listening to the teacher. In any case it’s not here, at least not
yet, and hopefully not in my lifetime. :slight_smile:

Technical forums like this are for communication, in English. The
better the English, the better the communication.

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ