Green Amethyst?

Hi Annabel,

The lighter, pinkish lavender is classically known as “Rose de
France” color. Amethyst occurs in all saturations, from nearly
colorless to so dark it appears almost black. It can be purple,
reddish-purple, violetish purple and bluish purple.

As a cutter, I can tell you that the darker varieties are more
expensive in the rough, the material that is reddish-purple seems to
command the highest prices. The paler colors are usually much less
expensive, but sometimes, when the material cuts to a nice bright
clean violetish pink, it might command a slight premium; but will
not cost as much as the classic darker color in the rough.

I like the lighter material, too, it allows what brilliance quartz
is capable of producing to come through. In darker material, much of
the light is absorbed by the deeper color. When cut to the correct
angles and polished correctly, quartz can be surprisingly brilliant.
I have some favorite cuts that were designed specifically for quartz
that are always quite brilliant, but more so in the paler shades.
Unfortunately, most jewelers are exposed only to the cheaply cut
stoes from overseas which are cut for weight, and the potential
brilliance is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps, if the stones you saw were cut properly by a skilled
lapidary, the prices would certainly be higher than “native” cut
material, as we all need to be paid for our time, don’t we? Good
question, thanks for asking it!

Wayne Emery

The Gemcutter
Precision Cut Natural and Synthetic Gemstones
105 E 35th St
Davenport, Iowa 52803

(563) 355-0891

It's green amethyst, and they'll buy it that way. Prasiolite sounds
like a material for kitchen counter tops. Gemology has its place,
but there's scientific correctness, and then there's sales.
Sometimes the two just don't mix. Zoisite was a good case in
point.

Zoisite is the perfect case in point. When treated, brown zoisite
became tanzanite. When treated, purple amethyst becomes prasiolite.
Thank you for illustrating the point.

Sure, sometimes correctness and sales don’t mix. It’s often the same
with sales and ethics. I’m glad I haven’t lost mine.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

All good points Wayne. Most people are exposed to the solid ‘purple’
color amethyst which often is unadvertised synthetics out of China,
or other countries with poor reputations.

The other thing to take into account (which you mentioned partially)
is not only the right angles for quartz, but also the best design
for the saturation of the material. Heavily saturated material is
often a very dark stone unless the cut is specifically designed to
take advantage of this. It all goes back to knowing how to correctly
cut a stone to give the maximum return of color, light, sparkle,
fire, etc… this is why I’m not a fan of concave cut stone. They
don’t ‘flash’ they just bend and magnify light.

Craig
www.creativecutgems.com

Hi Brian,

I’ve stayed out of this discussion till now, but this statement
really bothers me:

Green amethyst sounds OK to me. And I can sell it. To sell, one of
the factors is name recognition. What the hell is prasiolite to the
average consumer? 

Something wrong with green quartz??

Why use a misleading name that will only serve to further blur valid
gemological distinctions when it isn’t necessary. And if you think
that green quartz isn’t “sexy” enough, then make up a name that is.
What do you think “Tiffany Stone” is all about? So call it “Coril
Stone” if you want to. At least that doesn’t cross accepted
gemological lines!

Beth

Hear, hear, Sali. I have to heartily agree. Green amethyst sounds
OK to me. And I can sell it. To sell, one of the factors is name
recognition. What the hell is prasiolite to the average consumer ?
It's green amethyst, and they'll buy it that way. Prasiolite sounds
like a material for kitchen counter tops. Gemology has its place, 
but there's scientific correctness, and then there's sales.
Sometimes  the two just don't mix. Zoisite was a good case in
point. 

I totally agree that gemology has its’ place, and that place is
right there in your business, each and every moment of each and every
day. Without gemology, you wouldn’t know at what price to buy and
sell stones and jewelry. Without gemology, all blue stones would
still be called sapphires, all red stones would still be called
rubies and all green stones would still be called emeralds. People
would be buying and selling green quartz as emerald because they’d be
too ignorant to know the difference.

Gemstones are divided into Groups, species and varieties in order
that we know what the heck they ARE. That’s why we offer morganite
(the pink variety of the beryl species) instead of “pink
emerald.” Or heliodor (the orangey yellow variety of the beryl
species) instead of “yellow emerald”. If you have trouble
pronouncing the word heliodor, or if it isn’t saleworthy enough for
you, it can be called golden beryl. If you don’t think anyone will
buy your morganite, it is perfectly aceptable to call it pink beryl.
If you can’t stomach the correct term of prasiolite, there’s no
problem calling it green quartz, but green “amethyst” is not only
wrong, but underhanded and dishonest.

To KNOW that amethyst (the purple variety of the quartz species)
is purple, and ONLY purple, then to turn around and sell prasiolite
(the green variety of the quartz species) as amethyst just
because you can sell more of it due to name recognition, well, that’s
just unethical, irresponsible and shameful. It puts me in mind of the
red beryl from Utah that dealers were calling “red emerald” for a
while. That didn’t last, and neither will “green amethyst.”

Prasiolite may sound like a material for a kitchen countertop to
some, but that’s only because it is new and unfamiliar. I can’t help
but wonder how strange the terms ruby, emerald and sapphire sounded
when they were new. How about chrysoberyl, chalcedony, agate,
tsavorite, or yes, even tanzanite? They’re all strange-sounding words
if you’ve never heard them before, but we all can pronounce them
today. Yes, Tiffany & Co took an unattractive species that, most of
which, looks pretty much like frozen poop when it comes out of the
ground (zoisite), heated it, duplicated the natural blue variety of
that species and named it tanzanite. The thing is, there was no
prior color of transparent zoisite to use for name recognition as a
variety, and Tiffany & Co spent a lot of time and money promoting
their new one, as opposed to borrowing an already established variety
name that would be unethical. Zoisite is a species, tanzanite is a
variety. There’s nothing irresponsible or unethical about naming a
new variety.

Now people are heating and irradiating various quartz species to
make a green variety, and there is a name for that variety
(prasiolite). If a person is calling it by the name of another, more
familiar variety (amethyst) just so that they can sell more of it,
they’re nothing but a huckster who should be running a booth at the
carnival instead of posing as a responsible steward of the gem and
jewelry industry.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

What’s wrong with green quartz is possible confusion with green-gold
quartz (I just set a couple of beautiful green-gold pendants).
Reread Sali’s message for the gist of what I’m agreeing with. I think
Sali is absolutely right. If you want to argue about gem names, go
for the big guns and take on Tiffany over their “tanzanite” which is
Zoisite. That was Sali’s point. Many gem names are regional anyway.
The consumer doesn’t care what the textbook nomenclature is. Tiffany
certainly knew that. Gemological nomenclature varies for the same
gem. Really, I don’t know why everyone worries about it so much.
Personally, I have better things to do. You say tom-may-to, I say
to-mah-to…etc. etc…This is an old (and boring) argument.

Brian Corll
Brian Corll, Inc.
1002 East Simpson Street
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

Why use a misleading name that will only serve to further blur
valid gemological distinctions when it isn't necessary. And if you
think that green quartz isn't "sexy" enough, then make up a name
that is. What do you think "Tiffany Stone" is all about? So call it
"Coril Stone" if you want to. At least that doesn't cross accepted
gemological lines! 

Changing the name of a stone to my own name doesn’t cross accepted
gemological lines ? Huh ? I just reread your message and that last
paragraph looks like jabberwocky to me. Who said anything about
“sexy” ? (Far be it from me to call a piece of jewelry “sexy”.
Please - we’ve had enough of that). I don’t get your point or what
has you so lathered. I’m merely calling a stone what the general
consumer knows it as in order to avoid confusion, just as I would not
call tanzanite “that nice heated blue stone which starts out as an
ugly stone with an ugly name but wouldn’t sell that way so we changed
it”. :wink:

Brian Corll
Brian Corll, Inc.
1002 East Simpson Street
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

Beth and Brian, you are both right to some degree. Yes we should
strive to properly represent the goods we sell. But we also need to
sell them. Ultimately that’s the point, regardless of what you are
selling or in what environment. Customers want to buy but also need
to know they get fair value. And it is in the jeweler’s interest to
satisfy customer wants/needs.

The use of accepted trade names accompanied by relevant disclosure
maybe would satisfy both camps?

One could site numerous similar examples of ‘misnamed’ gems. Perhaps
it comes down to intent and perceived value. Is the idea to inflate
prices by deliberately misrepresenting in a material way (no pun
intended)? Or is the idea to put some relevance in the mind of the
consumer? Are they calling the praisiolite by a quartz-like name or
are they calling it something more valuable?

Personally, I don’t like any of its names. Praisiolite does sound
like a countertop product. Green Quartz lacks verve. Green Amethyst
is self-contradictory. In regards to romancing the stone, they all
fail, IMHO.

Hi Brian,

I don't get your point or what has you so lathered. 

The point is that amethyst, defined gemologically, is purple
(purplish) quartz. “Green amethyst” is a contradiction in terms (it
can’t be green if it’s already purple!) and is gemologically
incorrect. “Green quartz” is not a contradiction in terms and is
gemologcally neutral because quartz is not defined as having a
particular color.

Calling purple/blue zoisite Tanzanite is not a contradiction in
terms and is gemologically neutral as well. Such names are given
for marketing purposes and are not gemologically misleading; they
just don’t tell the whole story (which is why disclosure is so
important… but that’s another issue).

Here’s another way to put it:

“Green amethyst” is like saying “orange lapis lazuli” or “blue
citrine” or – for a real world example – “red emerald.” The latter
is another example of a gemologically-impossible misnomer that has
received tons of criticism: Emerald is by gemological definition
green, but “red beryl” isn’t as “sexy” or marketable a name.

I don’t know how to put it any clearer than that. I think it’s
important not to dilute the gemological names of stones any more than
they have already been diluted. Personally, I wish that sapphires
were still blue and that someone had given different names to all the
other corundum colors (like ruby), as was done with most of the
beryls: aquamarine, morganite, heliodor, etc. But it’s too late for
sapphire. That doesn’t mean it has to be too late for other gem
species, including amethyst!

Beth

Wouldn’t GREENED Amethyst be correct over GREEN Amethyst? This name
was used for years without a problem. Which is exactly what it
is… I guess I’m really getting old… I sometimes think we have
lost all perspective about the product we are offering. Gems are one
of natures most beautiful and romantic products. There is not one
gemstone out there that anyone really needs and a little romance
added to the sale sometimes makes it more appealing. Don’t ever
think for one minute that I don’t believe in disclosure because I
certainly do. However, don’t lose track of what gemstones are all
about. DeBeers built a Dynasty by romancing the stone with it beauty
and lore. Colored stone dealers are still " shooting themselves in
the foot" by arguing among themselves and telling each other how
smart they are by waving their GG certificates at each other. Think
about it… Our beautiful products have become second rate all
because we are managing to scare the consumer to death with all our
rhetoric. Again, I say, I support disclosure. Perhaps if we explained
normal and acceptable enhancements as being like a lady wearing a
little lipstick… It hasn’t changed the lady, it just enhanced her
appearance. Please slow down a little and don’t destroy one of
natures most beautiful and rarest of gifts.

Sali
Casmira Gems, Inc

I thought we had already established (from the people doing the
‘greening’) that the term is ‘Greened Amethyst’ not ‘Green Amethyst’
accept it or not, that’s what the term is supposed to be.

Craig
www.creativecutgems.com

What the term is supposed to be and what the consuming public knows
the term to be are two different things. I fail to understand why so
few people get that.

What the term is supposed to be and what the consuming public
knows the term to be are two different things. I fail to understand
why so few people get that. 

The answer to that is if the consuming public doesn’t know any
better they should be educated by the person they are purchasing
from. They shouldn’t be encouraged to think and use the wrong terms.
They should also not be abused by letting them have a misconception
and purchasing based on that.

The terms have been beat to death we all know amethyst is not green.
The word amethyst in ‘green amethyst’ is replacing the word ‘quartz’
because 'quartz ’ doesn’t sell as well.

Craig
www.creativecutgems.com

I support disclosure. Perhaps if we explained normal and
acceptable enhancements as being like a lady wearing a little
lipstick.... It hasn't changed the lady, it just enhanced her
appearance. 

Heating/irradiating amethyst (which is purple, not green) to a
deeper purple is a perfectly acceptable enhancement. Heating ruby to
make it a better red is another acceptable enhancement. It’s the same
with sapphire, topaz and many other These are actual
enhancements - they enhance the color (and often clarity) of the
stone. But heating/irradiating purple amethyst to make it a different
color is not an enhancement to the original color of the stone, it is
changing it to a different variety of stone. It is no longer amethyst
in any way. I don’t understand why some people don’t get that.

James S. Duncan, G.G. (I’m not a dealer, so I’m not waving the
diploma around to show how smart I am). James in SoFL