Good place to buy used tools

Jewelry Discussion
61 
What's wrong with learning by experiment?

To correctly interprete results of an experiment requires
experience, which beginners lack by definition, or they would not
be beginners.

Which turns this into a chicken-and-egg sceniaro.

But using high school or even college chemistry as an example, you
have the scenario of extremely inexperienced people getting ready to
use sensitive, delicate, instruments using potentially dangerous
materials and even possibly explosive methane from the tap.

These same students (assuming they are conscientious) will be
consulting and studying and and all materials available from
textbooks and the library in an effort to understand the background
necessary to perform the experiment successfully.

Children and young adults have either a teacher or a lab-assistant
respectively to supervise and provide safety. But the supervisor
doesn’t really teach in a lab, the students are actually teaching
themselves how to utilize the apparatus.

That’s in a school setting. In my own setting, being a post-grad in
engineering but having no experience in art, I resort to studying
everything I possibly can, and consulting as many people as I can, to
get as much background as I need to understand what is essentially an
engineering process utilized in a possibly artistic manner.

As far as art is concerned, I’m learning however slowly. I already
understand symmetry and contrast, and I’m beginning to understand the
basic concepts behind positive and negative space.

The result of this is that I can now feel potential designs coming
together in my mind, and being able to recall which process might to
use to most easily create it. Then I can pick which design I think
might be most feasible in my current skill set, with a little bit of
stretch either for greater sophistication or for learning some new
basic methods.

I guess that’s progress. You’ll see what I’m talking about by
Mother’s Day.

Andrew Jonathan Fine

62

Oh, Sorry, Patty. I am looking for a bench NEW TO ME. I am looking
for something with history. I also want something a little larger
than I have now. I have totally emptied my studio to re-floor and
paint, etc.

Do you have dimensions for the bench? A quick picture–even
cluttered–fro your phone etc. would be awesome. I need to figure out
what I will be putting back in the studio space, equipment and
furniture wise.

I am a metalsmith and jeweler. I don’t engrave.

There are no pictures or list attached. Please send me some… I
could even drive up, possibly next week.

Thanks,
Andy.

63

You got a mahogany bench for 75 bucks? I hate Florida, I would never
find that in a million years. Are you in the Midwest? Nice score on
the engraving block too. I have to say that when it comes to quality,
I like going with used rather than new inferior. But I guess that is
obvious.

64

How about in Canada, anyone know where to buy used tools?

Anna Chow

65 
Everyone starts as a beginner, in any industry, and experimenting
should be encouraged, otherwise that industry will be stuck in the
past, doing the same things.

I guess I should not be surprised of such views. After all, it
perfectly explains why it is so hard to find a jeweler even with a
modicum of skills.

Leonid Surpin

66 
Are you in the Midwest? Nice score on the engraving block too. I
have to say that when it comes to quality, I like going with used
rather than new inferior.

San Francisco, Rick. And we’re in a mercantile building full of
jewelers. Just to foster some jealousy :slight_smile: I’ll add that our Diacro
shears (only 6 inches) cost us $50 from an ex machinist who was both
a friend and wanted the bench space.

The other side of this coin is that I’ve given away four rolling
mills that I can remember. I know there was a pretty new ring
stretcher I just handed to someone, and I gave much of my lapidary to
my brother who cuts stone near Albuquerque. And boxes and boxes full
of tools and torches and steel… If it’s free to me, then I pass
that which I don’t want along at the same price… I haven’t
acquired anything serious in a few years now, though. Retirement,
just going out of business or worse sometimes. I know Gabe Sider at
Sierra casting retired and they had a sidewalk sale a couple of years
ago. I didn’t go because I need more stuff like I need a rhinovirus.
It’s out there - all of the tool vendors have a used sale category
somewhere on their websites. And being in touch is a major part of
it. The world is not going to beat a door to your garage workshop,
I’m afraid. And you just can’t get this stuff on demand - it just
comes if and as it comes, and you grow…

67 
Estate sales are a good place (...) it makes me sad to buy them.

Me too. I’m okay with buying from the living artist who wants to shed
a tool not being used, but I have an aversion to buying from a
relative of the deceased, a horror of not paying them fair value.
Fortunately that’s an easy problem to correct with a dose of candor
and a higher offer.

Lorraine

68 
How about in Canada, anyone know where to buy used tools?

What part of Canada? I am close to the Canadian border.

69 
I guess I should not be surprised of such views. After all, it
perfectly explains why it is so hard to find a jeweler even with a
modicum of skills.

What? The view that everyone starts as a beginner, or that
experimenting should be encouraged?

Or do you believe that industries such as ours aren’t subject to
progress?

Firstly, starting as a beginner is a “fact”. The view that
experimenting should be encouraged is a personal view.

Neither of which could lead to the conclusion of a lack of skill,
it’s not logical.

Leonid, we all can’t start as experts like you obviously did, and I
think I’m in the majority in saying that experimenting is a good
thing.

Every tool in the jewellers workshop (every tool ever), started out
as an experiment.

Regards Charles A.

70 
I'll add that our Diacro shears (only 6 inches) cost us $50 from an
ex machinist who was both a friend and wanted the bench space.

Those routinely sell for $400.00 and up on ebay. I’ve seen them go
as high as $1000.00.

DAn Culver

71

USED TOOLS?..“Why buy retail, if you can by wholesale?”

I know of a good supplier and he is in Toronto. This fellow buys
used tools from companies who go bankrupt or **close-outs. Please
mention my name…Gerry Lewy!

“Orko Tools” 416-362-2727, Orest Hrycaj, or speak to John. He even
repairs Fordom machines on the premises.

He has a toll-free number as well…1-800-595-2727

72 
Me too. I'm okay with buying from the living artist who wants to
shed a tool not being used, but I have an aversion to buying from a
relative of the deceased, a horror of not paying them fair value.
Fortunately that's an easy problem to correct with a dose of
candor and a higher offer.

Well I have a different view.

I think that the artist would want their tools to be used (well I
would).

I’d imagine that an artist would take comfort in the fact that their
tools are still making things long after they had passed away.

Regards Charles A.

73

but I have an aversion to buying from a relative of the deceased, a
horror of not paying them fair value.

I'd imagine that an artist would take comfort in the fact that
their tools are still making things long after they had passed
away.

But that wasn’t what I wrote, Charles. I said I had a horror of
getting a tool at a too-low cost from the family of someone who
passed away.

Sheesh.
Lorraine

74 
He has a toll-free number as well..1-800-595-2727

Does he have a web site? CIA

75

Charles,

Every tool in the jewellers workshop (every tool ever), started
out as an experiment.

I respectfully disagree. When I needed a hammer handpiece for my
flexshaft, it was a need not an experiment. Engraving block, casting
machine, kiln, hand tools, lapidary equipment, ect. Always knew what
I needed to buy to accomplish the task at hand.

One exception, tool to cut wire to use for granulation balls,
however I kept it for a long time because it was such a beautifully
made tool, I recently let it go to an Orchid member who was quite
pleased as it is no longer made. Did some granulation, but it was not
my passion. I recently heard the saying “Within every lie is a kernel
of truth.” I would not suggest that what Lenoid posts are lies. Some
of what he says is from his experience, and I can usually see a point
being made from his view. I think Lenoid is harsh, it is based
sometimes on opinion, (from his experience) however mostly to me,
conflicts with the opinions of those who might be naive. Lenoid is
old school, most of us have no idea what level of proficiency he had
to achieve to be able to be employed in Russia, and the tools he had
to work with or create. If you had to invest the time to make a
tool, you might be more committed to investing the time to get
proficient with it.

One of my metal teachers (trained in Germany,old school) has an
opinion that people take a workshop and learn a technique and beat
the crap out of it. Instead of being design oriented and learning
the techniques required to make a piece, the work is driven, limited,
by a technique. He also was not thrilled with the students
expectation of having salable finished pieces by the end of the
workshop.

Goal oriented instead of process oriented.

100 years ago, there was no mass marketed crap being made, in the
U.S. or Russia. Skill had to be mastered to make a living wage. There
was no market for what is called “Art Jewelry” today." Art Jewelry"
today is certainly not Lalique or Fouquet.

So is it an advancement or a decline in the ability and skill of a
modern “goldsmith”.

As far as Lenoid saying it is hard to find jewelers with a modicum
of skill, I can agree with that as someone who has hired “jewelers”
over the years. If you have not had the pleasure, you are really
missing some very fine anxiety producing moments. I have to
re-educate and train someone to do what I ask the way I want it done,
not the way they did it the way their last employer did it. Think it
is hard to train a old dog new tricks, try a young jeweler who
thinks they know something. I have better success training someone
with no experience. Especially soldering.

Forty years of making has required me to be aware of what skill I
lacked and had to acquire to continue to up level my proficiency.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.

76 
But that wasn't what I wrote, Charles. I said I had a horror of
getting a tool at a too-low cost from the family of someone who
passed away.

Someone else covered that, you simply pay what the tool is worth to
you, or you make the seller something nice. CIA

77

IN VIRGINIA :

In addition to Gerry’s posting about liquidators and wholesalers- If
anyone is in the Virginia area there is a good resource located in
Richmond in Noel Dempsey and Company on Broad street- mostly heavy
tools and woodworking- but last Monday he had 2 kilns, 2 forges and
a slew of tool-steel stock in various widths… Various tooling and
miscelaneous bits and bobs all about.

78

Hi Gang:

Speaking of 6" DiAcro shears… I have a spare, that I’d like to
unload. Guaranteed not to cost $1000, or be on ebay. If you’re
interested, drop me a line directly. (SF Bay area.) Realistically,
$400, plus shipping.

Regards,
Brian.

79 
100 years ago, there was no mass marketed crap being made, in the
U.S. or Russia. Skill had to be mastered to make a living wage.
There was no market for what is called "Art Jewelry" today." Art
Jewelry" today is certainly not Lalique or Fouquet.

100 years ago we weren’t flying internationally either :wink:

Progress for progress’s sake is a bad thing I agree, but when
technology can produce the same or better results, that’s when it’s
good.

So is it an advancement or a decline in the ability and skill of a
modern "goldsmith".

I don’t think it’s a decline, just a diversion to a different path.

No matter how smart a machine is, it doesn’t have an imagination,
we’re still needed for that.

Think it is hard to train a old dog new tricks, try a young
jeweler who thinks they know something. I have better success
training someone with no experience. Especially soldering.

True the young Turks think they know it all, however, not to
discount new techniques, I’d get them to demonstrate their technique,
it may be better than what I know.

Old dogs can learn new tricks, but sometimes you have to drag them
kicking and screaming to try them.

I came across this a lot in the IT industry. A lot of new techniques
weren’t even attempted due to “it’s always worked that way why
change it?”

Don’t get me wrong I like traditions and traditional techniques (I’m
a blacksmith remember), but if there’s a better technique or
technology, I’d be silly not to at least try it.

Regards Charles A.

P.S. And I have no problems borrowing techniques from the past if
they can save me cash and time, currently looking at Archemedian
furnace construction.

80 
I respectfully disagree. When I needed a hammer handpiece for my
flexshaft, it was a need not an experiment. Engraving block,
casting machine, kiln, hand tools, lapidary equipment, ect. Always
knew what I needed to buy to accomplish the task at hand.

Okay I’ll have to expand on this comment so that it’s not
misinterpreted.

That hammer hand piece started out as an experimental tool, before
you even set eyes on it. Someone invented it, did some experiments
and the result of those experiments was a hammer hand piece.

All tools without exception started out as an experiment, meaning
someone invented them.

Even the first hammer was an experiment.

Regards Charles A.