Good place to buy used tools

Jewelry Discussion
41

Experience includes finding the right tool. Buying used tools remains
the same as buying new tools…‘Buyer Beware’.

The problem is finding the best tool to do the task at hand. New
tools are sometimes heralded by wild claims as to their effectiveness
and then fade away to the junk heap. The used tool market is full of
such junk.

Treasure hunters are always sifting through mountains of junk, and
the treasure is there!

If you are a beginner like I was, I preferred to try out the junk at
second-hand prices rather than new prices. In this manner I found
out how to recognise the treasure hidden amongst the junk.

You can trash the junk in your attempts to modify it. If you fail
there is little loss in expenditure and much to learn in the
experience of finding the best tool.

Do your research and note what the experts are using. Second-best
and third-best are closer to Best if you follow their advice.
Anything cheaper is either a waste or a hidden treasure.

Regards, Alastair

42

I missed the first part of the thread, but it sounds like someone may
be equating used tools with lousy tools. If so, that’s a daft
comparison, on pure logic, because a good tool doesn’t care if it’s
new or used any more than a lousy one does. Not entirely true ?..
of course not, because a lousy tool will get lousier faster than a
good tool will, with the same amount of use. But that doesn’t at all
mean that some tool is necessarily more lousy because it is used,
than some other tool which is new.

I have plenty of tools that are perfectly good tools that were bought
used, and plenty of crappy ones that were bought new. Ridiculous to
assume or assert that used tools are inherently crappy just because
they’re used. Too many variables.

Dar
http://www.sheltech.net (work)

43

Yeah, Bill, right on!,

You are so right. I also began with a bare minimum of secondhand
tools and jury-rigged equipment. I worked with the inexpressible
enthusiasm of the beginner and I hope that it still fuels my work, in
spite of adding many more pieces of equipment and tools as the years
have passed. Some of those original tools have carried me through the
over 35 years of studio work and they are the most loved and most
often used tools that I have. Many of the secondhand (or third or
fourth hand) tools I purchased over the years are in use every day at
my bench, some of them rare, beautifully made, and impossible to find
new and of the same quality.

And yes, as Charles mentioned, a poor worker blames his/her tools.
It’s not the tools that make the work…it’s how the tools are used.
Really poorly designed tools or equipment can interfere with a
worker’s ability to make good work, but that will be discovered
immediately, by beginner or expert! Those are the tools that will be
discarded or ignored in the back of a drawer,

Use what you can find and afford, buy the best you can afford and
always seek out the best tool for the job at hand. Secondhand or
not!

Personally, I am one more secondhand rose ( someone in my family
told me that song actually was written for my grandfather), and
prefer a tool that has a history, even an unknown history, a
connection with jewelers of the past who impressed their hands into
and onto their tools. The handles of those tooIs are worn and
discoloured, and comfortable. I like that connection.

Musings,
Linda Kaye-Moses

44 
Really poorly designed tools or equipment can interfere with a
worker's ability to make good work, but that will be discovered
immediately, by beginner or expert!

The whole thread started with this simple question How could beginner
know good tool from the bad one? After many posting on the subject I
have to observe that the question has not been answered. The
assumption that beginner somehow discover it, does not make sense. I
have seen a guy went through a hundred blades without realizing that
his frame sucked.

Leonid Surpin

45

Hi Leonid,

The whole thread started with this simple question How could
beginner know good tool from the bad one? After many posting on the
subject I have to observe that the question has not been answered.
The assumption that beginner somehow discover it, does not make
sense. I have seen a guy went through a hundred blades without
realizing that his frame sucked.

That was not the question at all, I think you’ve read more into the
question than was being asked :-

I was wondering if any one knows of a good place to buy used tools
and such, I am on an extremely fixed income and don’t have a lot of
extra money. Are there some kind of craigs list type places to get
things like tools and materials used so that I can afford them?

The original question has been answered as best as people on this
list are able.

So there is no more misunderstanding, Dani (the original poster), is
asking where she can get affordable tools, she’s on a fixed income,
so saying “If you can’t buy the best… don’t bother”… is a tad
insensitive.

Fortunately many on the list have provided links and suggestions.

The main problem with telling people to “not bother” or words to
that effect, is that a lot of people will follow that advice. Imo
that’s how trades die.

Regards Charles A.
P.S. You saw a person going through a hundred blades and you let him???

46 
A bad worker blames the tools

There are lots of places to buy tools but there are a few things to
consider first. You can’t be in a rush. Things you are looking for
may come soon or a long time from now. If you see something that you
can possibly use, get it now (don’t kick yourself later). If it turns
out you can’t use it, sell it. Learn how to polish, tighten, harden
or case harden hand tools. If you learn what you can do to improve a
tool your scope and skills widen. If you have to repair a tool before
you can use it, make sure that is considered in the price. Many of my
pliers are 40 plus years old.

They have all gone through a sanding and polishing at least once. Get
a good catalog with lots of different brands. You can tell (easily by
the price) which are the better tools. Better tools have the quality
to last. To start learning a little bit of quality, talk to a bench
jeweler. Offer to bring some coffee or a treat. Have them show you
what to look for. Lastly, get tools that are easy to work with for
you. Make sure they fit your hand are easy to move or use. If you
think and follow some of these ideas, you won’t blame a tool for bad
work.

Good luck
Steve Ramsdell

47 
I have seen a guy went through a hundred blades without realizing
that his frame sucked.

I went through a thousand blades before I realized my blades sucked.
I think the only way for an amateur to know if his tools are garbage
is for someone more knowledgeable to teach him.

48

Good point, Leonid. No good answer to the question. My response is
for the beginner to locate an experienced jeweler, then ask for some
help. Even seeing and handling another jeweler’s tools will improve
the beginner’s odds in selecting a durable/good tool.

Judy in Kansas, where the wind is blowing across the prairie. Too
much for me - I’m staying inside!

49

In response to finding “Used” tools… this economy has not been
kind to MANY shops- wholesale liquidators and re-salers (Auctioneers)
make a good living finding what others want. If you have the ability
to call, contact, go by, shake a few hands and explain what you are
looking for then some of the guys I have met are more than willing
to call you with outright sales BEFORE things go to auction (usually
the auction reserve)- They often have a good eye for functionality…
the cost will ALWAYS be a gamble- but if it goes to auction they may
not get what they wanted for it…

Give them a “bird-dog” fee for finding things- and you may be amazed
what they will network and “find” for you.

This is not necessarily what a real beginner may be into- but once
you are expanding your shop- cultivate the other relationships that
can make that growth easier!

Kerri

50 
The original question has been answered as best as people on this
list are able.

I do not think so. The original question was mangled beyond
recognition. Advice that beginner should not attempt to buy used tool
is a good one and I stand by it. However, this was twisted into that
it is not a good idea to buy used tools under any circumstances,
which is obviously false. Another mutation was introduced is that new
tool can also be not good. I know it can be amusing stating the
obvious, but it has nothing to do with original question. I would
like to ask the following question. What if we substitute engagement
ring instead of tools and shopper has no gemological training, would
you still advice to buy it second hand? I certainly hope no.

Leonid Surpin

51 
I think the only way for an amateur to know if his tools are
garbage is for someone more knowledgeable to teach him.

What’s wrong with learning by experiment? There are only three
possibilities for failure in sawing. The frame is bad, the blades are
bad, or the technique is bad. Vary each until you figure out which. I
can’t imagine failing a thousand times without stopping to figure out
why. A mentor may be far more efficient, but it isn’t the only way.

Al Balmer
Pine City, NY

52 
What's wrong with learning by experiment?

To correctly interprete results of an experiment requires
experience, which beginners lack by definition, or they would not be
beginners.

Leonid Surpin

53 
I do not think so.

You may not think so, but the original question has been answered,
many times over.

Advice that beginner should not attempt to buy used tool is a good
one and I stand by it.

That’s fine, but there’s nothing wrong with second hand or custom
built, it just takes a little research, and people have to start
somewhere.

An as to starting somewhere you tell us often that you started by
acquiring gold from your relatives… second hand… that you
possibly had to refine?

I would like to ask the following question. What if we substitute
engagement ring instead of tools and shopper has no gemological
training, would you still advice to buy it second hand? I certainly
hope no.

Well this opens up a larger debate. The answer is “maybe”.

There are websites that capitalise on the failure of weddings and
engagements… broken dreams, and sell off the rings at greatly
reduced prices. I wouldn’t trust an international company, but if the
company was local, I could get some recompense if the deal was
fraudulent.

When I was in Wales a long time ago, there was a jewellers shop
selling second hand, and antique jewellery. This jewellery attracted
less in the way of tax and was therefore cheaper to purchase. Was it
of any less a value than a “new” piece of jewellery, the answer of
course is no. I bought the jewellery because I liked it and wasn’t in
the jewellery biz, but I got it valued when I got home, all was fine.

Regards Charles A.

54 
What's wrong with learning by experiment? There are only three
possibilities for failure in sawing. The frame is bad, the blades
are bad, or the technique is bad. Vary each until you figure out
which. I can't imagine failing a thousand times without stopping to
figure out why. A mentor may be far more efficient, but it isn't
the only way.

True. I should have said the best way. Can you imagine having a
thousand sawblades?

55

It is the nature of a forum or extended dialogue for topics to often
broaden and wander…

56

What’s wrong with learning by experiment?

To correctly interprete results of an experiment requires
experience, which beginners lack by definition, or they would not
be beginners.

Nonsense. How do you think it all got started? Divine guidance?

Al Balmer
Pine City, NY

57

Hi Andy,

I live in Seattle and am looking for a new jeweler's bench. Did
your dad have one?

Yes I have a jewelers bench however, it’s not new, it’s an antique
cherry wood bench. Right now it is covered with lot’s of things I
know nothing about! I am attaching a list of some of the inventory my
dad left me, however there is so much more.

I live in Bellingham and would like to continue the dialog, and
possibly send pictures if you are interested. Are you and engraver or
a jeweler?

Thank you for your interest,

Patty

[Edit]

Attachment removed:

How can I share files and pictures with the list?
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ftp

Or… send the files to the attention of service@ganoksin.com and
we will upload them for you…

[/Edit]

58

From the absurd back to reality, hopefully. We are not your typical
Orchid people, maybe, in that we are high profile, well known, and
well connected. Others here are too, but only a percentage, I’m
thinking. We’ve been here in #959 for 30 years, and I have another
ten on top of that. There’s a reason for me saying this, that I’ll
get to. As another said a while ago on this thread - you get used
things as and if they come. Little by little they come.

I’m sitting at my prized possession - my solid mahogany desk that I
paid $75 for. On the corner of it is our 1000 ct. Mettler scale that
I picked up for $300. The original invoice for it from Switzerland is
in the used safe behind me. Both of our ring stretchers are used, I
paid $500 for the centrifuge, vacuum, vulcanizer and a kiln that’s
since been replaced, from a hobbyist who didn’t make it work. All of
my repousse tools are used.

I got a bundle of about 50 for free. About a dozen hammers, all of
our stakes including some small spoon stakes, are used and mostly
free. An old timer’s work bench (free) is our wax table. I acquired
an entire lapidary shop including an 18" slab saw once, for free.
One of my more useful tools is some lineman’s pliers that are about
100 years old. The jaws are worn away so they are smooth, and they
are stout and strong as ever. I bought my oval bracelet mandrel, but
the round one is a hand-me-down.

Again, free. I have about 500 bristle brushes (trust me) someone
just gave me one time. Oh yeah, there’s the lines of jewelry molds,
about 3,000 of them, mostly free. My Vigor engraving block with
attachments cost me $200. My 255cf oxygen tank came from the old
timer, free…

Little by little, they just present themselves, and you grab them. I
could keep going, there’s much more. Now, what you aren’t going to
find, most likely, are basic bench tools. Pliers are either worn out
or cheap student stuff - same for saws, ring mandrels and certainly
files. But they’re out there, you just have to plug in and keep your
eyes open. Oh yeah, everything I mentioned works just fine.

59

Ya me too_When I first started I bought a truck load of used
equipment for a $100. bill from a guy who wanted to clean out his
garage to make room for a Barbie selling business.I was so thankful
I couldn’t stop thanking them.

…My brother told me to just shut up and load the pick up truck
before they change their mind.I’ve been using most of the stuff ever
since. There are a lot of used tools and store fixtures on
jewelersprofit website by David Geller. Stores closing and such…
Just thought I’d mention it. I have most of the tools I need.

60 
To correctly interprete results of an experiment requires
experience, which beginners lack by definition, or they would not
be beginners.

Geez Leonid, where do come up with these views?

The whole point of experimenting is to test an hypothesis, something
that you don’t know, or don’t know for sure.

Logically if you don’t know something how can you have experience
with it?

The only skill a person needs when experimenting is how to document,
and record findings… no prior knowledge or experience is necessary.
Interpreting results, is not about experience either it’s about
observation.

A beginner in any field can experiment.

Within our industry, experimenting provides visible results (most of
the time). Experimenting provides a positive result or a negative
result, either way it’s a learning experience. There is no such thing
as a failed experiment.

Everyone starts as a beginner, in any industry, and experimenting
should be encouraged, otherwise that industry will be stuck in the
past, doing the same things.

Regards Charles A.