Hello all! I have been enjoying the forum here for quite a while, and
I wanted to thank all of you who so generously give your hard won
wisdom to us “newbies” that are just starting out. I have always been
interested in learning goldsmithing, chain maille and enameling
jewelry, but was always so busy working full time and raising my
daughter on my own that it it kept being put on the back burner. Now
my daughter is 21 and out on her own, and I was severely disabled
(nerve disease that affects both legs) I am able to sit down and
learn all these wonderful things! I was wondering if any one knows of
a good place to buy used tools and such, I am on an extremely fixed
income and don’t have a lot of extra money. Are there some kind of
craigs list type places to get things like tools and materials used
so that I can afford them? Thanks in advance for any advice! Dani
Used tools are not a good idea, especially for beginner. When one has
experience and knows exactly what one need, there may be some
savings. A better way is to limit your goals and learn step-by-step,
buying only what you need at a particular phase of development. You
can start with learning piercing, which only require saw frame and
blades.
As far as materials, they are also quite expensive, but with some
imagination it should not be budget breaking. You can buy few feet
of copper pipe, cut it into rings ( all you need is a hacksaw ) and
you that will keep you in practice for quite a while. Do not overlook
garage sales. Old tea service can be a great project trying to
restore. Plumber’s torch is enough in the beginning, dremel will do
instead of flexshaft. Pliers can be modified from old ones,
purchased on garage sales as well. Creative thinking is more
important than wallet size.
Leonid Surpin
Hi Dani
I post every other month a listing of folks looking to sell their
shop tools. Go to this link and open the pdf file. Not sure if they
are still available., but check and see.
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/h8
There is a jewelry supply house here in Atlanta that will sell used
tools when available: Just For Fun (770) 455-1871
Good Luck
David Geller
JewelerProfit.com
are you in the united states? if so query for the American
Federation of mineral Societies (AFMS).
Follow directions there to locate what regional federation your state
is in, then follow the link there and locate your state. There is
probably a local gem and mineral society located nearby They may
either already have an equipped workshop available, or members who
could help out.
Another route would be to query for Society of North American
Goldsmiths (SNAG) and follow a similar procedure there.
It would help if we had some idea of your physical location, the
world is large. As an example, I have some tools that I could send,
but not a lot of extras.
John
John Atwell Rasmussen, Ph.D., AJP
http://rasmussengems.ganoksin.com/blogs/
Dani
Having been there, done that, I can tell you it is a hard path to
start metalsmithing with no money. The Art Jewelry magazine volume 8
issue 2 from January 2012 has a good article by Michael David Sturlin
about what your really need. It is very frustrating to try to make
something, and it doesn’t work out right, and you don’t know why,
only many years later to find out, you did not have the right tools.
If you have to beg, borrow or whatever, please take a class from
someone who knows what to do. You will save so much trouble, to not
have to reinvent the wheel. You can enamel with a torch before you
use a kiln.
Good luck.
Roxy
Used tools are not a good idea, especially for beginner.
Arg. Depends. Amazing tools in great shape can be found second hand.
I’ll take those over Harbor Freight any day.
Dani,
Best of luck in learning all these crafts! I’m trying to do the same
but I have a day job. Everything in life is constrained by lack of
time or lack of money, isn’t it? L
Craigslist is a good place to find some tools if you are patient and
careful. Patient because it takes time and frequent checking before
you find something you want, careful because there are evil people
out there, so you have to be careful where you meet.
Ebay is another good source, again with patience required. I’ve
gotten great buys from both sources.
A third option is to make your own. Many of the tools are fairly
simple to make, they just take time. Local artists or craftsmen might
be willing to show you how and let you use their tools, too.
Where do you live? I’m in Fayetteville, NC. If you’re close enough
to visit, let me know. I’m teaching enameling and casting continuing
education classes at our local community college and also do
workshops at my home or a local craft store. I’ll be happy to show
you how you can make some of your own tools.
Yours,
David Wendelken
My father had a mfg company in Seattle Washington and way too soon
thereafter passed away. Before building his dream house and jewelry
haven he bought lot’s of equipment, most specifically top of the line
GRS equipment with all the bangs and whistles. He was also one of the
last of the original hand engravers and was invited to many places
throughout the United States. His works are in the Smithsonian, a
gift to President Kennedy from the city of Seattle. I would be very
interested talking with anyone that might be interested
in purchasing his equipment and keep his legacy alive…
Used tools are not a good idea, especially for beginner.
The other side of the coin.
Hand-me-downs can be okay to get you started, especially if you’ve
just started and aren’t sure that this is the direction you want to
go.
If you give up, then you haven’t spent a fortune finding out.
It’s like casting, I can tell you how to set up for less then $150.
If you didn’t like melting metal, you’re left with a handy plumbing
torch. You would have wasted about $60 (or you could give those bits
to someone else).
Regards Charles A.
Arg. Depends. Amazing tools in great shape can be found second hand. I'll take those over Harbor Freight any day.
Yes, there are good second hand tools. But the question is how
beginner suppose to know the good ones from useless junk. Beginners
have neither knowledge, nor experience to tell later from former.
Leonid Surpin
Yes, there are good second hand tools. But the question is how beginner suppose to know the good ones from useless junk. Beginners have neither knowledge, nor experience to tell later from former.
Leonid, your viewpoints are so rigid that an earthquake couldn’t
budge them!
In your original response to this thread, you first said beginners
shouldn’t buy used tools because they’re too stupid (my
word-paraphrasing your point) to know decent ones from junk. In that
very same post you then tell them to look for tools at garage sales.
Your elitism precludes the possibility that the person may have
pre-existing tool knowledge from a different line of work or other
experience. A beginner at the bench doesn’t mean they’ve never seen
or used a hand tool in their entire life! When I started making
jewelry, I didn’t know much about jewelry specific tools but I
brought extensive tool knowledge and use with me from my military
occupation of jet engine mechanic. No one had to teach me how to spot
decent used hammers and pliers from junk ones, nor how to use them;
I’ve only had to learn about jewelry specific tools.
To the original poster, if you yourself don’t have experience with
tools, find a friend that does and have them help you find decent
used tools. Anyone with a few years of carpentry or mechanical
experience can judge pliers, hammers, files, etc. for condition. I
also second the comment about Michael David Sturling’s recent article
on essential tools (Art Jewelry, Jan 2012 issue). I was extremely
surprised at the short list of tools he recommends. If you can’t get
your hands on a copy of the article, message me offline and I’ll send
you one.
Cheree
If you give up, then you haven't spent a fortune finding out.
It is this type of thinking that causes unnecessary failures. To
succeed in becoming a goldsmith, one has to commit all the time and
all the resources that one has. “Try and see if I like it” never
works. If one does not willing to do it, one simply has to re-examine
his/her primary motivation. I used to when taking an apprentice gave
a guarantee that training will be very painful; skills would come
after much longer period than anticipated; and it would be much more
expensive than he can imagine in his wildest dreams.
Leonid Surpin
-
The Enamelist Society The Enamelist Society Inc. will post
requests for tools. We usually have some tools in our silent auctions
at our bi-annual conferences. Last year we had 4 or 5 used kilns, I
believe. Many local chapters of metal-smithing and enamel groups have
newsletters where you can post a request for tools ( as well as list
them…don’t know about charges for these services) -
I’m not sure why you advise against used tools, Leonid? Almost
none of the hundreds of tools in my studio were purchased new. The
greatest proportion came from my dad who bought them for himself and
for me, mostly at swap meets. I have some very high quality tools,
made of excellent metal quality, and some esoteric tools I’ve not
found in any catalogue…speaking of which -
I have some files that must have been used for some form of
engineered work…not in the studio now, but I’d say thy are ap 4"
long, 3/8-1/2" wide and thin as paper with cutting edges on both
flat sides. Fragile things which I’ve abused over the years through
my impatience. Anyone know a source for them? I don’t even know what
to call them. Also, is there such a think as a quality reciprocating
engraver…those dremel tools sold to mark objects? The last one I
bought was really junky and I’d like to find a good one. I use them
for signing my work, texturing and other shop jobs. Not traditional,
but accomplishes a job efficiently and with great accuracy.
Marianne Hunter
http://www.hunter-studios.com
Dear Patty what have you got? I need a tile saw, and I need a
buffer, and a vibrating tumbler. On the legacy idea, have you thought
of donating his equipment to a troubled teen program, or a community
college, letting his work go on, if you did that, make a clause that
when the program dissolved, you get the shop back
Blessings pat.
I'm not sure why you advise against used tools, Leonid? Almost none of the hundreds of tools in my studio were purchased new.
I advise against used tools for beginners because it is hard enough
to learn with good tools. If student has to compensate for tool
deficiencies, it prolongs learning phase and set’s in bad habits.
Leonid Surpin
I would be very interested talking with anyone that might be interested in purchasing his equipment and keep his legacy alive..
I don’t have the skills to be an engraver at present, and definitely
wouldn’t do his legacy any justice, but I would love to see some of
your father’s works…
Regards Charles A.
In your original response to this thread, you first said beginners shouldn't buy used tools because they're too stupid (my word-paraphrasing your point) to know decent ones from junk. In that very same post you then tell them to look for tools at garage sales.
You need to read with more attention. I advised to use garage sales
as a source of materials, not tools. I also would like to point out
that it is you who equate lack of experience with stupidity. The
difference between the two is that while former can be remedied with
practice, the later is permanent.
Leonid Surpin
It is this type of thinking that causes unnecessary failures. To succeed in becoming a goldsmith, one has to commit all the time and all the resources that one has. "Try and see if I like it" never works (for Leonid). If one does not willing to do it, one simply has to re-examine his/her primary motivation. I used to when taking an apprentice gave a guarantee that training will be very painful; skills would come after much longer period than anticipated; and it would be much more expensive than he can imagine in his wildest dreams.
Rubbish, Leonid.
There’s nothing wrong with getting a taste for something, to see if
that’s the direction you want to go. Then if you do like it you can
buy better tools, and get some further education (like buy some of
your DVDs). If you don’t like making jewellery then you haven’t
wasted money.
An example $1375 for a basic apprentice kit sold by Rio Grande, and
that doesn’t include a torch. I don’t know about you, but $1375 is a
lot of money to waste.
A lot of people buying your DVDs are people that want to try before
they fully commit themselves. It’s not just jewellers and apprentices
that buy your DVDs you know. Are you saying that they should give up?
Either you’re wrong in this, or selling DVDs to just anyone shows
more flexibility than your previous statement.
Regards Charles A.
Can’t tell you about new tools that are almost as cheap ass used,
Harbor Freight Tools…
HTH Ron
Yes, there are good second hand tools. But the question is how beginner suppose to know the good ones from useless junk. Beginners have neither knowledge, nor experience to tell later from former.
They buy some crap and learn how not to be a beginner. Not every one
is born knowing everything. I have a pretty good eye but still will
buy crap for a specific job and modify the hell out it. I have lots
of fancy tools (expensive) although often reach for my favourite
cheapo ones.
jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand