Gemmology question

[tonykonrath]

There’s a considerable amount of material being sold as “Jade” - which it obviously is not. Here’s a photo of a pair of earrings with stunningly green stones. It can’t be jade but what exactly is it?

I have an F.G.A. and it has me puzzled! I can’t get an RI reading at all and it’s dyed.

https://orchid.ganoksin.com/uploads/db0786/original/2X/e/e64c442286cc474d525209b62a0eb6e4498bc3fc.jpg

[Betty2]

I cannot open your photo.
In case you don’t already know, this is how I do it:

• Save the photo on my computer.

• Start a post on the website,

• click the 7th icon from the left, (it looks like a bar with an arrow pointed up),

• A new box opens, where you click on “Choose Files”,

• Locate the file on your computer, and then click “Upload”.

[tonykonrath]

Dumb 'ol me!

I’ll try again…

[linda616]

Aventurine? I’ve seen it dyed all sorts of colours but the colour is normally fugitive. Does it leave any marks on the skin?

[tonykonrath]

The dye does not leech out with acetone, alcohol or water. It is vaguely like aventurine but there are no included “sparkles."

Tony Konrath
tonykonrath@mac.com

[gng214]

Here’s a link that may help from ISG.
http://www.gemstonetreatmentreport.com/Gemstone_Reports.html

[Lee_Horowitz]

Try a X-ray diffraction test or chemical analysis. You may contact me off line as well at lshorowitz@yahoo.com Much so called jade is not jade but transval jade aka grossular massive garnet, bowenite or serpentine, chrysoprase, green adenturine, green amazonite, travertine, etc etc . We are miners and sell natural black jadeite jade and with pyrite as well as purple-lavender jadeite as well. I will direct you offline to a jade expert writing a book on jade for the British jade society who is here in the USA . Contact me offline at : lshorowitz@yahoo.com
Lee Horowitz, M.Ed, CAGS, Gemologistminers-cutters-manufavturers Peru Blue Opal LtdHorowitz Co-KCIG Co LtdLima Peru-USA-Voi-Nairobi Kenya

[royjohn]

Hi Tony,
With all due respect, isn’t being unable to get an RI a technique problem? That is, since the polish looks so good in your photo, a spot reading ought to be possible, no? I’m from the rough and ready school of gemology. I would start with a hardness test in an inconspicuous spot, because I’m also a lapidary and I could polish out any scratch. I would then do an SG. Yes, I know there is metal and a pearl, but if it’s a cultured or natural pearl, the SG is about 2.7-2.75. The metal has an SG of 10.36 if silver or 8.9 if copper, but there is very little of it. So you would get a minimum SG, but you would be close and this could eliminate some possibilities. I think you could also use a polariscope on these stones to decide whether they are birefringent or not and also could get an optical figure (strainless sphere) to determine both optic character and optic sign. This ought to get you an ID…IDK about FGA, but I don’t think that the GIA course teaches optic character and optic sign with a polariscope. I think Xray diffraction or chemical analysis is overkill for this problem.

If you want to get some opinions from a group of gemology pros (I have a gemologist’s cert from GIA, but I’m by no means the most experienced gemologist), post your query at gemology on line. Hope this helps,
royjohn

[Richard_Hart3]

Looks like dyed chalcedony…

[royjohn]

Hi Richard,
Yes, that’s what I thought, some kind of dyed quartz. The color doesn’t look like any jadeite (or nephrite, for that matter) that I’ve ever seen and it just doesn’t look natural. But if you want a positive ID…which is why I wrote as I did.
royjohn

[Renee_Newman]

RE: The green stones in the earrings shown by Tony Konrath If the Refractive index is in the 1.64-1.68 range, thestones could be bleached, dyed and polymer filled jadeite. There is a lot ofthis material on the market and it is inexpensive. For example, I bought an attractive 14mm x10mm dyed & polymer filled similar colored green jadeite pendant for $30wholesale. If the Refractive index is in the 1.53-1.54 range, thematerial could be chrysoprase or dyed chalcedony as has already been mentioned.Incidentally, the acetone test does not detect all dyed stones, besides thefact that it can damage a stone. One of the best ways to detect dye is with a UV visiblespectrometer. Their prices have come down to as low as US$ 1,800. They are muchmore reliable than a hand-held spectroscope. Raman spectrometers are ideal for identifying stones and theycan distinguish between jadeite jade and omphacite jade, which is not possiblewith basic gemological testing. However, Raman spectrometers start out at US$ 9,000,but more and more appraisers and dealers are buying them along with the UV visible spectrometers. FTIR spectrometers are used to detect polymers in jade. Based on what major labs have told me, anFTIR test is required to positively determine that jadeite is untreated. The lowest priced FTIR spectrometers cost more than US$ 20,000.Some new green synthetic materials that resemble jade arevery difficult to identity even with these sophisticated instruments. For more information on jade identification and evaluation,consult my book:Exotic Gems, Volume 4:How to Identify, Evaluate & Select Jade & Abalone Pearls. It has 12 chapters onJade and one chapter on abalone pearls. RenéeNewman www.reneenewman.com

[Renee_Newman]

When we reply to an e-mail, how can we assure that there is spacing between words, sentences and paragraphs?

My previous e-mail had 6 double spaced paragraphs and spaces between all the words and sentences, but the Ganoskin version displayed all the paragraphs and text as one paragraph with missing spaces between many words and sentences.

I replied directly to an e-mail post by copying and pasting in the text from MS Word. I also sent a copy of the e-mail to myself.
The e-mail to myself showed the correct formatting, but the Ganoskin post was missing much of the spacing.

Renee Newman

www.reneenewman.com

[Elliot_Nesterman]

MS Word uses many hidden characters to control formatting. If you copy and paste from Word into an email or website those hidden characters can also get pasted, and they’ll screw with the formatting.
If you want to compose the email offline best to do it in a plain text editor, like Notepad, not a word processor.

[gerrylewy18]

What I found is my best way. I write my technical setting essay in Word, once there I’ll highlight the essay and drop it into Ganoksin. Then I’ll go and do the spacing, grammar & letter-bolding session!
It’s a gentle learning curve!!!

I’m Gerry, On my iPhone!

[Renee_Newman]

Thank-you Elliot and Gerry for your tips on how to ensure that there is spacing between words, sentences and paragraphs when we post on the Orchid forum. I will no longer do a copy and paste from MS Word into an Orchid e-mail even though I have done that on other online forums with no spacing problems.
I will retype my response to Tony Konrath’s question about the green stones in the earrings he posted.
However, this time these top two paragraphs are copied and pasted from Notepad. I couldn’t figure out Gerry’s Ganoskin solution. The rest of this e-mail below is retyped directly into the e-mail box and includes some double spacing as a backup.

 If the refractive index is in the 1.64-1.68 range, the green stones in Tony Konrath's image could be bleached, dyed and polymer-filled jadeite.  There is a lot of this material on the market and it is inexpensive.  For example, I bought an attractive 14mm x 10mm dyed & polymer-filled similar colored green jadeite pendant for $30 wholesale.     

 If the refractive index is in the 1.53-1.54 range, the material could be chrysoprase or dyed chalcedony as has already been mentioned.  Incidentally, the acetone test does not work on all dyed stones.  In addition, it can damage a stone.  

  One of the best ways to detect dye is with a UV visible spectrometer. Their prices have come down and start at US$ 1,800.  They are more reliable than the hand-held spectroscope.   

  Raman spectrometers are ideal for identifying stones and they can distinguish between jadeite jade and omphacite jade, which is not possible with basic gemological testing.  However, Raman spectrometers start at US$ 9,000.    
  FTIR spectrometers are used to detect polymers in jade.  Based on what major labs have told me, an FTIR test is required to positively determine that jadeite is untreated.   
 Some new green synthetic materials that resemble jade are very difficult to identify even with these sophisticated instruments.     

   For more information on jade identification and evaluation, consult:  Exotic Gems, Volume 4: How toIdentify, Evaluate & Select Jade & Abalone Pearls.    

Renee Newman GG
www.reneenewman.com

[bnhminor]

Not so very long ago I went to the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, UK, to see a wonderful exhibition of Chinese jade. I learned at this exhbition that the word “jade” is a generic word for a hard stone that is usually green in colour but that can be found in other colours, too, like cream, yellows and brownish tones. The two most well known types of jade are nephrite jade and jadeite. Jadeite is harder than nephrite jade. Your earrings could well be jade of some type.

[Renee_Newman]

Hilary,
It’s good that you pointed out that the word “jade” has been used to refer to a hard stone that is usually green in color but that can be found in other colors too. This will help people realize that a stone may not be nephrite or jadeite jade if it is simply identified as “jade” on the Internet or in a shopping area where Chinese is the main language.

Historically, the Chinese word for jade, “yu” has referred to any stone suitable for carving. However, when a seller speaks English, it is illegal and fraudulent to identify a stone as “jade” if it is serpentine, amazonite, aventurine, chrysoprase, dyed chalcedony, hydrogrossular, dyed marble or some other jade look-a-like.

Beware of the term “new jade.” English speaking sellers often use that term to refer to serpentine.

Renee Newman GG

www.reneenewman.com

[bnhminor]

Hi Renee,

Thank you for your input. I have often been confused by the variety of
stones that are called “jade”, so the exhibition at the Ashmolean was a real
eye-opener. There are so many pitfalls around buying gemstones and it is
hard, not to say pretty damned-near impossible, for novices in the gem-zone
(!) to distinguish between one sort of gem from another. While we were
travelling round China a couple of years ago, we went into plenty of jade
workshops and, again, I was struck by the number of different “jades” you
could get in that country, Yunan jade being one of them. I have a Yunan
jade ‘lion face’ pendant which came with a certificate of authenticity . . .
. at least, I think it is authentic . . . I have never heard of 'new jade’
but I will not forget now that I have been warned

Best wishes,

Hilary

[dikragem]

In my experience, New Jade is actually Serpentine.

In a message dated 2/27/2018 5:22:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, orchid@ganoksin.com writes:

bnhminor
February 27Hi Renee,
Thank you for your input. I have often been confused by the variety of
stones that are called “jade”, so the exhibition at the Ashmolean was a real
eye-opener. There are so many pitfalls around buying gemstones and it is
hard, not to say pretty damned-near impossible, for novices in the gem-zone
(!) to distinguish between one sort of gem from another. While we were
travelling round China a couple of years ago, we went into plenty of jade
workshops and, again, I was struck by the number of different “jades” you
could get in that country, Yunan jade being one of them. I have a Yunan
jade ‘lion face’ pendant which came with a certificate of authenticity . . .
. at least, I think it is authentic . . . I have never heard of 'new jade’
but I will not forget now that I have been warned
Best wishes,
Hilary
Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.
Brought to you by:

You are receiving this because you enabled mailing list mode.
To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

[jholtak]

The cabs have the appearance of fine imperial jade. So does some chrysoprase. I can assure you they are not jade. Either that or you are fabulously fortunate because true jade that looks like that would be in the hundred thousand dollar range. Each.

Jerry in Kodiak