Andy, Couldn’t have said it better myself…well done! It is time
to inject some objectivity into this very emotional issue. The
physical and optical attributes of diamonds are peerless and those
of us who make a living using them should be grateful for what
nature has bestowed upon us ! ( After all, man is just knocking off
nature when he imitates her…)
Ron MIlls, Mills Gem Co. Los Osos, Ca.
Alright, I'm really confused here. Is Orchid not a forum for people who make a living from selling jewelry, are trying to make a living from selling jewelry, or dreaming of making a living from selling jewelry?? So why all the negativity about a product that helps you do this? Some of you who are struggling now could make a whole lot more money if you incorporated diamonds into your pieces than you do now. Who cares why they are valued? They have value. Use that fact to make more money so you can make more jewelry that you like to make.
Does the above validate synthetic diamonds if they ever become
readily available? Many who are trying or dreaming of making a
living from selling jewelry can’t afford good quality natural
diamonds. Some who are struggling could make a whole lot more money
if lab-grown diamonds were more readily available. Could they use
that fact to make more money so they can make more jewelry that they
like to make?
I’m not arguing for the sake of argument, I’m genuinely interested
in your take on this. I was recently told by a bourse member down
here that I couldn’t work in that part of the industry because of my
appearance. That was just after he told our gem club about how his
bourse wouldn’t accept a new idea he had come up with to help them
gain Supplier of Choice status (he was exasperated over their
“resistance to change”). The deep-rooted traditionalism displayed by
diamontaires fascinates me, and I’m always interested in their
opinions of the changes in the market.
James in SoFl
Sexual innuendo is fine for selling marital aids, I just wish they'd keep it out of jewelry stores
Sorry, I’ve just joined this list so I’m posting this in mid thread,
but can’t resist… and hopefully ya’ll will know I have a sense of
humor.
According to the comedian Ron White: The slogan "Diamonds, take her
breath away…why don’t they just say what they really mean?
"Diamonds, that’ll shut her up!.. for a minute!
I love my little bead and silver jewelry store. I used to work for
a chain of fine jewelry stores, and my store seems to be a lot less
hassle! Just introducing myself, hehe.
Kerry
Clearfield, UT
http://www.celtcraftjewelry.com
Hi Greg,
I hope you didn’t feel as though I was “dissing” anybody’s favorite
gemstone in my post of a few days ago. As you’ll remember, I didn’t
say that there was anything intrinsically wrong with diamonds; they
can be a very beautiful stone, and I’ve hovered over quite a few
wonderful examples in the gem halls of museums and been entranced.
Who could not be, presented with such extravagant gorgeousness?
What I was trying to get at in my post was that I think it rather
sad that, as others have mentioned, some consumers barely see the
beauty of the diamonds they purchase. Their chief concern is that a
diamond be big enough and sparkly enough that everyone will notice
that they have spent a lot of money on it, and it is this
ostentatiousness that I find depressing. A good diamond, a beautiful
stone, deserves more than to be seen as just “bling.” There is
nothing wrong with a diamond engagement ring (especially an
innovatively designed one), but there is something wrong with people
who think the depth of their relationship has to do with the carat
weight of the “rock” displayed thereon.
Nature is a wonderful thing and it has created a large spectrum of beautiful Gemstones that as jewelers and Gemologists we should learn to look at in a childlike way and appreciate what they truly are, a miracle of Nature.
I think this is very true. Another thing I meant to include in my
earlier post is related to the aforementioned problem: diamonds and
a few other precious stones have attained such importance to some
jewelry consumers that no other stone is deemed worthy of a second
glance - such a buyer will pass up a stunning chrysoprase, a
delicately banded agate, or a luscious, shimmering labradorite
because “those are just semi-precious stones” and lack the “bling”
appeal that they crave. Personally, I don’t really care; I’m not
making jewelry for seekers of “bling,” and if these folks are not
interested in the incredible variety and beauty of gemstones that
nature has to offer, that’s their loss.
I wouldn’t call it heated, just lively 
Cheers,
Jessee Smith
www.silverspotstudio.com
OK, Wise Blood, lets go for it. We'll improve on the worst movie ever made and turn it into a gem ! Will call it, The ATTACK OF THE KILLER DIAMONDS. Very low budget. Let's do lunch at Mickey D's.
OK Pat, I’d like to do the sequel. We’ll call it GEMESIS WARS
EPISODE II: REVENGE OF THE SYNTH.
James in SoFl
I know this isn't going to sit right with you, anymore than the fact that some people just plain don't like diamonds has, but I find platinum boring as well.
Personally I don’t like platinum either. My feelings on white
metals are that they are there to accent yellow metal. But that
doesn’t stop me from selling the stuff. And when I do sell it I
make enough money on it so I can pursue the things that I personally
find more interesting.
And I'm baffled for why you think it's a requirement that all makers of jewelry should have to work in said materials, anyway.
I don’t think everyone has to work with diamonds or platinum. I just
don’t think that members of the jewelry industry should be so
negative about a product that has helped them make a living for so
long. Whether or not you sell diamonds, the marketing campaign
about them has helped you to sell your jewelry. All of the
marketing campaigns about jewelry ultimately help all jewelers sell
their product because they continue to raise awareness of jewelry as
a product for everyone.
Around here, the market for that kind of thing would be VERY limited. You can't "make more money" on something you can't sell.
Granted I haven’t a clue where you live or sell your work but it’s
the attitudes about what you can or can’t sell that will determine
whether or not you can sell high end product, not where you are. I
started out making silver jewelry and I, too, thought that I
wouldn’t be able to sell gold or diamonds. That perception ended
when I had a few people far more knowledgeable than me tell me I was
self limiting by thinking that. I followed their advice and started
showing diamonds and gold and then I began to sell it. Until you
actually show your work in the better metals you won’t know if you
can sell it that way. What I can tell you is that if you had spent
that $560 (or even half of it) on gold (even 10k if you are located
in a relatively poor area) and turned it into fewer pieces of
jewelry you would have been able to make more on the few pieces you
did produce, both because the markups on individual pieces will be
higher, and because you would have more time to work on selling the
product since you wouldn’t have to produce so much to make the same
amount of money. I’m not saying there isn’t a market for silver
work or that people shouldn’t work in it. I just think that by
expanding your repertoire out you can make more money to pay for
doing the things you like to do.
In my market I would not be able to move such expensive pieces, but I CAN move all the silver jewelry I can turn out at a good profit WITHOUT having to charge ruinous amounts of money just to cover the cost of materials
This statement is a direct contradiction of what you are saying. On
the one hand you say you are making a good profit. On the other
hand you are telling me that $560 is 12% of your annual gross
income, which puts your income at about $5000. To me that means
that you aren’t making a good profit because that is way below
poverty level in the US.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
understand that one can make a good profit as an arms dealer too, especially if you go free-lance and aren't picky about your customers. I'm not sure that's justification to wake up one morning and say "I love surface-to-air missles!"
Trevor,
I’m not sure that diamonds can be used to kill people (although I’m
sure somebody creative could figure out a way) so I’m not sure the
analogy here is quite correct. Frankly I don’t believe guns should
be sold anywhere but I’m in the minority in this country. The issue
of whether people are harmed getting the diamonds is another one,
but what is often ignored in those arguments are the number of
countries (Botswana comes to mind at once) and people (Jews fleeing
the Nazis who were able to sneak their wealth out in the form of
diamonds) that have benefited from diamonds. Understandably some
people have been killed and hurt over the years in the process of
making such a valuable product available, but as I said in an
earlier post let all those who feel this way first give up their
computers and then their cars because far more people die trying to
provide materials and oil for these products than for diamonds.
Please note too that I love colored stones and have always promoted
them just as heavily (or more so) than I promote my diamonds. I
just don’t think that industry members should denigrate a product
that we all make a living from. It’s like bad mouthing your
competitors to your customers. It makes you look bad and usually
won’t ever bring that customer back into your store.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
Does the above validate synthetic diamonds if they ever become readily available?
James in SoFl,
I have absolutely no problem with people selling synthetics. There
is absolutely a market for all types of synthetics out there, and as
with all of the jewelry related marketing, I think promoting them or
selling them helps all jewelers (this presumes full disclosure of
course). Maybe this year someone will sell a woman a synthetic
diamond and in a few years when she has some more money she’ll buy a
natural. I don’t sell synthetics in pieces I produce because I
don’t feel they are consistent with the quality of jewelry I make
and sell but if someone wants me to make up something with a
synthetic they bring in that’s fine with me (actually, just this
morning someone came in with exactly that–a pair of synthetic blue
sapphires to be made up into earrings). I understand not everyone
can afford what I make. I also understand there is a market for all
types of jewelry.
As for the marketing campaign. Almost every product in this country
uses sex in it’s marketing campaign, either directly or indirectly.
It’s a fact of life. The fact that a company reads properly what is
moving people in one direction or another is an indication of how
good or bad their marketing campaign is. The fact that almost
everyone knows about the de Beers ad with the couple in the square
is an indication that it was a good ad because everyone remembers
it. You know what they say, even bad press is good press because it
keeps you in the public’s eye (not that I would recommend you do
something bad so this happens). As a matter of fact the company
producing the de Beers ads would be remiss if they didn’t take into
account the fact that sex is used in most advertising. Frankly, the
problem with sex in ads is an American thing anyway. I think
Europeans in general have far less problems with the human body than
Americans do and it’s a lot healthier attitude.
Love can mean different things to different people. Some of them do
feel that it is represented partially by the gifting of material
things to their loved ones. It often is quite important around major
events in people’s lives. Whether they are influenced by the ads
they see, or simply their own emotional status doesn’t matter. And
frankly, given that we sell a product that is completely
discretionary, it’s a darn good thing that they do because we would
all be out of business if people didn’t buy our product.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
Hello Daniel,
I'm not sure that diamonds can be used to kill people ... so I'm not sure the analogy here is quite correct.
You had said, if I understood correctly, that diamonds can help a
jeweller make money and that was a good reason to like them. My
point is that lots of things can help you make money but that in
itself doesn’t mean one should embrace them, at least not in my book.
Lest I tread into even deeper doo-doo I have to say it has been my
observation that diamond jewellery and, often, those who are shopping
for it represent a particular segment of the market that I’m not
especially interested in dealing with. It’s not just the stones
themselves, it’s the whole thing: the marketing, the clientele, the
aesthetics of most of the products, the expectations thereof and,
yes, the stones too. In particular the high-pressure marketing and
endless hype has given the whole diamond scene an atmosphere that I
find off-putting.
Ferrari has it’s customers, animal-part aphrodisiacs have their’s,
and so on. To put it bluntly I for one am not interested in playing
that game with those people on that field. The fact that more money
can be made by doing so is somewhat incidental to the reasons that
many of us got into making jewellery in the first place.
... I just don't think that industry members should denigrate a product that we all make a living from.
I’m not sure where the “denigrate” part comes from. The definition
I’m looking at says:
"1. To attack the character or reputation of; speak ill of;
defame. 2. To disparage; belittle ...."
What a number of us have said is that we don’t particularly fancy
them and would prefer to work with and/or own other stones. AFAIK
personal preference, and one’s reasons for feeling thus, don’t usually
equate to defamation or belittling.
I must say that I’m rather intrigued by your implication that there
are things that “industry members should” or should not say. Where
does that come from? What’s the purpose served by such a stand? And
why is it necessary, or even advisable, in the first place?
I’m sure most Orchidians would agree that open thought and discussion
of what we as the artisans, craftspersons and masters of this trade
think and feel and do with our materials does our industry no harm and
can, if we’re lucky, actually help us in our individual pursuit of
that trade.
Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
Jessee,
I hope you didn't feel as though I was "dissing" anybody's favorite gemstone in my post of a few days ago."
Not at all. I believe everyone has the right to their own opinions.
I enjoy all gemstones and would never consider limiting myself in
their use. I have made pieces with 3 and 4 carat Diamonds as well as
making pieces that had a wonderful piece of Agate that was accented
with diamonds or colored gems such as Tsavorite Garnets
I do find it hard to believe that in a group of people that make a
living from jewelry or even enjoy it as a hobby there is not a
higher appreciation for all the wonderful things nature has provided
us to work with.
My only wish for this group is that everyone stop bashing any part of
what we do. We are in a noble profession that dates back to early
civilizations. In order for the public to appreciate what we do
requires us to appreciate what we do and the precious items we work
with.
Greg DeMark
Longmont, Colorado
email: greg@demarkjewelry.com
Website: www.demarkjewelry.com
Custom Jewelry - Handmade Jewelry - Antique Jewelry
In discussing diamonds, there seems to be some speculation and
judgement as to why people buy them, use them as gifts, or see them
as beautiful.
Some people feel it is a false symbol representing love, love that
does not need to be acknowledged with a cold hard lifeless
substance.
Some have the sense that it is used for “bling” and this is an
inappropriate use.
There is some moralizing and speculation as to the motives of others
as to why they buy diamonds, why they are used for gifts, or the
motive behind wearing them.
Cars can be bought and used for the same reasons, houses can be
bought for the same reasons, clothes can be bought for the same
reasons
If someone gave you the newest hi-tech laptop that you really
wanted, how would you feel. If some one gave you a brand new car, how
would you feel. You might feel that someone cared about you. Why
would that not be the same for someone receiving a diamond?
Why separate diamond from all the other things we use to show
appreciation and love for another person and focus on the most
negative reasons that something can be valued for by the giver or
receiver.
Sex is used to sell everything. Why single diamonds out. It is not a
reflection on the desirability or attractiveness of diamonds how it
is portrayed in advertising.
By the logic displayed on this subject, don’t have sex so no one can
interpret your behavior as a result of you being influenced by the
media.
Chop it, dice it, slice it, diamond is a durable attractive material
that has come to have a meaning to some. If that was a result of
marketing, so what?
Who is being hurt? Where is the foul? Diamond has an artificial
price due to the way it is released creating demand. Like oil?
Give most women a choice between an electric drill or a diamond and
what do you think they will choose?
Beyond all the politics and opinions, we like bright shiny pretties,
and diamonds, to some, fit that descriptions, and its okay.
We all value things that have no meaning for someone else. Enjoy
what you enjoy, leave others that brief respite from all the
pointless meaningless trials and tribulations we go through as
humans.
It can be an agate for you, and a diamond for me.
My only wish for this group is that everyone stop bashing any part of what we do. We are in a noble profession that dates back to early civilizations.
Unfortunately human nature has not changed since early
civilizations.
Humans, for some reason, can’t have opinions or beliefs without
finding the need to inflict them on others.
Hmmm.
Maybe I shouldn’t send this.
Then again, everyone is entitled to my opinion.
You had said, if I understood correctly, that diamonds can help a jeweller make money and that was a good reason to like them.
I think what started the gun running analogy of yours was my
statement “Who cares why they have value?” Perhaps I should have
said: “Who cares why customers perceive they have value?” In other
words it doesn’t matter if they’ve been convinced through
advertising that diamonds have value. It also doesn’t really matter
if the value they have has been supported by a monopoly. In fact
through de Beers’ support of the price they have guaranteed that the
consumer’s purchase has retained value over a long period of time.
There aren’t many things one can purchase that retain as much value
over a 30 year period as a diamond does. There also aren’t many
things one can purchase that give so much pleasure over that period
of time and that represent so much to people. Perhaps it’s because
you don’t appear to be dealing as much with the public (I think you
were the one who said you weren’t making a living from jewelry) as I
do, but every day I have people come in who can’t bear to take their
rings off because of their emotional value to them. Emotional
value, not economic value!!! And on a regular basis I bump into my
customers around town who can’t stop telling me how much pleasure
they get from wearing the pieces I made, often with diamonds, but
also with other jewels as well.
What a number of us have said is that we don't particularly fancy them and would prefer to work with and/or own other stones.
I have no problem with people preferring other stones. I sell
colored stones all the time to customers who, for one reason or
another don’t want diamonds. But, and this is where the denigration
word came in, a number of the respondents did, in fact, denigrate de
Beers, their practices and their advertising campaigns in their
responses. And I used the word exactly as you defined it.
I must say that I'm rather intrigued by your implication that there are things that "industry members should" or should not say. Where does that come from? What's the purpose served by such a stand? And why is it necessary, or even advisable, in the first place?
This goes to the point I made in response to someone else’s email on
this subject. It’s like attacking your competition when you are
selling a customer. It makes you look bad and the customer
uncomfortable. I believe fully in open discussions but sometimes
it’s a little like shooting yourself in the foot. How do you think
your customer is going to feel when a few years ago they bought
themselves a nice diamond ring and then they come into your shop and
you tell them how absolutely horrible de Beers and the diamond
industry is? As a jeweler, whether you like it or not, you speak
for all jewelers when you talk to the general public about any aspect
of the trade. And Orchid is a forum that is accessible to absolutely
anyone.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer
daniel, in your money hungry world of supporting your
family(albeit, some necessity here) and desire to continue sales
through your store, you fail to see some peoples’ problem with living
in a society that has been connived and trumped by, in many cases,
greedy corporations whose sole purpose is to make money at all costs,
no matter who gets stepped on, used, and underpaid as far as workers
go, companies that lobby politicians to cheat, lie and steal, and
elect officials that are willing to let horrible things happen to the
environment(bush’s environmental neglect), all in the name of
money, duping consumers with contrived , purported by
inadequate humans that form advertising agencies that train college
graduates further, to the highest degree, in the art of how to
make fools of people by creating idiotic advertising fads, and
tricking their minds into thinking something is reality, when it is
not reality, and has nothing to do with reality, unfortunately
this is rather easily done! So your statements below are very
shallow and don’t show much concern for people, even though you
claim you are only there to help;
Who cares why customers perceive they have value?" In other words it doesn't matter if they've been convinced through advertising that diamonds have value. It also doesn't really matter if the value they have has been supported by a monopoly. In fact through de Beers' support of the price they have guaranteed that the consumer's purchase has retained value over a long period of time. There aren't many things one can purchase that retain as much value over a 30 year period as a diamond does.
this is a trumped up false reality acheived through advertising,
and why would you want our people to live in some company’s
advertisement, consumating their and feelings of love(marriage) on
totally fabricated premise, designed to make money for greedy
corporate heads. The diamond issue is one small part of this creepy
mind invasion, mind you, so in case you can’t see it, this is what
some people that are posting on this topic, are upset about, people
that want to see other people living in a real life not some vapid
advertisement scam, this is the crux of the matter, dp
I must say that I'm rather intrigued by your implication that there are things that "industry members should" or should not say.
This goes to the point I made in response to someone else's email on this subject. It's like attacking your competition when you are selling a customer. It makes you look bad and the customer uncomfortable. ....
Hello Daniel,
I can understand that you see it that way and that is of course your
business, literally and figuratively. I must say though that this is
one of the very few times I have heard a sentiment like that expressed
on Orchid although there have been many opportunities to do so.
Often I’ve heard Orchid members say “I don’t like working in
silver/gold/platinum”, or “I don’t like rhodium plating” or whatever.
In the four-ish years that I’ve been reading Orchid I can’t recall
that you have ever come forward and said “you shouldn’t say that” as
you have here in the case of diamonds.
Whether you would share the or not the fact(s) remain
that De Beers has had a virtual monopoly on the diamond trade for
the better part of a century, that the endless marketing campaigns for
diamonds did create the demand for diamonds in the first place to
De Beers great benefit, and that those marketing campaigns are
based on manipulative emotional messages that some people find
off-putting. No matter how many customers come in and ask for them
the history of diamonds is what it is.
Perhaps that’s the reason you take the “don’t say that” position when
it comes to diamonds, because you are worried that if people knew
that their taste for diamonds was, at least partially, the result of
marketing pressure and hype they might not be so quick to parrot the
PR slogans and consume per the marketing scripts? Or that knowing that
the price of diamonds is largely the result of the cartel’s control
of product flow might effect the potential buyer’s willingness to
purchase at those prices? If these are your concerns I think you
needn’t worry because I strongly doubt that such an awareness would
effect the demand one little bit, or even if it did the net result
would be imperceptible.
Needless to say that I disagree with your position that to openly
discuss the history and marketing of diamonds is like dissing the
competition. As I’ve said several times in this conversation diamonds
are wonderful and I love the abrasives I use that employ them. No
“denigration” intended or implied. But in the same way jeweller’s
ought to disclose any gemstone treatments they know of or the possible
downsides to plated jewellery or whatever so too is it reasonable to
question the perceived value of diamonds by openly discussing their
history.
If a customer knows what they want and diamonds are it then fine, I’m
sure we all wish them the best in concluding a happy transaction. But
if they’re actually curious about it and want to know where their
“diamonds are forever” slogan comes from, for instance, then so too
should they have the opportunity to proceed as they see fit.
As you’ve pointed out I don’t (yet) make a living from my jewellery
making but that doesn’t mean I don’t have customers too because I do.
And what do they think when I tell them about the history of diamond
marketing, if it happens to come up in conversation? Some are
curious, some surprised, most are peacefully unconcerned. If they
liked diamonds before we talked they’ll almost certainly like diamonds
afterwards, sometimes even more so because now they know more about
them. Go figure, life is complicated, vive la difference!
As a jeweler, whether you like it or not, you speak for all jewelers when you talk to the general public about any aspect of the trade.
What can I say, I completely disagree. People go to one jeweller or
another because they prefer their different work, prices, attitude,
demeanor, location, age, whatever. I’ve never met anyone that assumed
that all jewellers were associated in any way, shape of form or that
their skills were universal or that they had anything in common at all
really. Quite the contrary in fact. In any case I hope you don’t
presume to speak for me because I would never presume to speak for
you. The best anyone can hope is that we both, as jewellers, respect
the trust that our clients extend to us and that we do the best for
them that we can. I happen to think that means being willing to
discuss the marketing history of diamonds and I daresay you don’t.
Again, vive la difference.
How do you think your customer is going to feel when a few years ago they bought themselves a nice diamond ring and then they come into your shop and you tell them how absolutely horrible de Beers and the diamond industry is?
I think you are, perhaps understandably, exaggerating my position on
diamonds and the about them that I’m suggesting is best
disclosed. Be that as it may I again disagree with your position on
this.
When I bought my first car I knew nothing about cars. I liked the
look of it, it felt good to drive it and I had the money that was
being asked so I bought it. Some time later I learned that that
particular model ranked as a “lemon” in the Lemonade buyer’s guide. I
had a few problems with the car, pretty much as described in
Lemonade, but I was never particularly bitter over the purchase. I had
taken the seller’s verbiage at face value and in the end that was
clearly my choice to have done so. What I did not feel was angry at
Lemonade for having made the “lemon” available, even
though it hadn’t done me much good at the time of my purchase.
At worst I felt a little sheepish for not having done some research
beforehand … and I learned better for next time. My next car
purchase was much more expensive but you can bet I knew exactly what I
was getting into when I made that particular choice. I was
exceedingly happy with that purchase then and even now, years after
that vehicle has passed into other hands.
So what might the customer think if and when they learned that they
paid too much for a product controlled by a company whose advertising
had had a lot more to do with their purchase than they may have
realized? A little enlightened maybe? Wiser perhaps? Resolved to be
better informed next time?
My observation in 40-odd years of knocking about this Earth is that
people generally are happier when they know better, even if it takes
them a little while to realize it. People generally want to know
whether they got their money’s worth or not. What they generally do
not want is someone hiding the truth from them. And they almost
certainly don’t want to deal with someone who presumes to know what’s
best and elects to systematically withhold from them.
I’ve made many purchases in my life where I placed a mistaken amount
of trust in the seller, or the marketing surrounding their product,
and ended up have regrets in varying degrees over the purchase. Among
other things I almost always avoid doing further business with
someone who has misrepresented or intentionally misinformed me about
their product. I’d rather know the facts up front and make my own
decisions about a product regardless of whether that means that a
particular sale will proceed or not. I strive to extend the same
respect to my own customers. I would hope that we Orchidians all
would though I have no illusions that that position is or will be
universally shared.
It sounds to me as if you are suggesting that we should collectively
withhold about a product that many of us trade in because
it’s good for our business and helps shelter the customers from
possibly feeling bad about having purchased said product in the past.
While I certainly don’t think it’s anybody’s responsibility to get
preachy about it I have to say that I can think of nothing that could
damage our collection reputations and trade more. If our customers
were to learn that that was they way we conducted our trade they’d
wish a pox on us all and rightly so.
Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
It sounds to me as if you are suggesting that we should collectively withhold about a product that many of us trade in because it's good for our business and helps shelter the customers from possibly feeling bad about having purchased said product in the past.
Trevor,
I am not advocating nondisclosure of any topic. As it happens I was
disclosing colored stone treatments before most of you were even in
the trade. I regularly discuss diamond pricing with customers. I
regularly discuss the fact that pricing was determined by a monopoly
for a long period of time. I do, however, present all sides of the
issue. However I can’t for the life of me see how being guaranteed
that a product you bought would go up in value at, or about, the
rate of inflation every year is a bad thing. Let’s look at those
cars you bought. The day after you took them home they had
decreased in value by about 35% and within a year by 50%. Ten years
later (unless you’re like me and are still driving a 12 year old
Honda) that piece of metal that you may have paid 20, 30 or even 50
thousand dollars for is in the junk pile. Granted you may have
gotten some service, and even some pleasure from it for a few years
but there’s nothing left of it at the end. Buy a diamond and 30
years later there is a good chance you will get your money back for
it if you have to sell it.
Is having a monopoly a bad thing?? I think in some cases it is and
in some it isn’t. I pine for the days when ATT had a monopoly on
the phone system in the US. I knew exactly what I could get, I got
great service and I didn’t have to field a hundred phone calls a
week trying to sell me cheaper phone service. Would I want there to
be only one bank out there? Not really. But there almost is only
one bank left in this country.
Is there a problem with customers not wanting diamonds?? Absolutely
not. I have thrived for years on that fact. People come to me
because they can get something different than is in every jewelry
store. And they have come to me because I specialized in hard to
get colored stones (I believe I still have New England’s largest
collection of purple sapphires—certainly I have more than most of
the gem dealers who come to see me). I just simply find the
negative message presented about some of our products to be self
defeating, especially when you do depend on selling our product for
a living.
I've never met anyone that assumed that all jewellers were associated in any way, shape of form or that their skills were universal or that they had anything in common at all really.
This statement, however, must come out of a somewhat limited contact
with the retail public. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I
have had someone come in with a pile of misfrom a
jeweler that they believe is the holy gospel because they DO believe
that all jewelers know and do similar things. Let’s see, I’ve had
them come in and say “there are no purple sapphires because a
jeweler in London told me they don’t exist”, “the hardness of
moissanite (or you can name the diamond substitute) is the same as
diamond and no gemologists can tell them apart–a jeweler told me
that”, ad nauseum. When you speak to the retail public and you
have put yourself out there as a professional (and that is what we
are—professionals) then people believe what you tell them and they
believe you speak for all jewelers because you are a member of the
trade. For good or bad the retail public perceives all jewelers as
knowledgeable in their field and they expect what they hear to be
right.
Anyway, I fear we are boring the general reading Orchid public with
this discussion which we seem to have beaten to death. I am happy
to continue this off line with you anytime as I do respect what you
are saying (and you know how to write cogently, too).
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
this is a trumped up false reality acheived through advertising,,,
Hi dp,
Yes you are right that it is a false reality but what isn’t today
especially in this country. I have no problem with people wanting to
live out their lives in a far more honorable way but it doesn’t seem
to matter what product we are talking about in this country it is
all the same. Oil (the cause of untold death and ecological
destruction), computers (guaranteed to fail after 3 years), cars
(lose all their value immediately and usually don’t last one day
longer than their warranty), food products (gene enhanced, hyped as
cholesterol reducing, etc.), legalized gambling–the list goes on
and on. I don’t disagree with you that it is a pretty terrible
thing we have reduced our lives to but, on the basis of reality, it
is the life we are living and I believe you have to make the best
with what you are surrounded with. I would love to live in an ideal
world where none of this was necessary but it isn’t going to happen
in my lifetime. So I would rather go out and work the system as it
exists in the best and most profitable way possible. And by
profitable I don’t only mean finacially. It’s by selling those
diamonds that I make enough money to play at my bench with colored
stones. It’s by sellign those diamonds that I make enough money to
buy more colored stones. And it’s by selling those diamonds that I
can spend at least some of my time making, what are for me at least,
fun designs. Anyway it’s nice that you are still reading my posts.
Stay in touch.
Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
617-234-4392
I just don't think that industry members should denigrate a product that we all make a living from. It's like bad mouthing your competitors to your customers. It makes you look bad and usually won't ever bring that custom er back into your store.
Daniel, I think you’re taking this whole thing way too personally.
Someone else (was it Greg?) voiced a similar sentiment of concern
that we mustn’t dis the diamonds because they’re there to make us
money. I don’t think anybody here is dissing the actual diamonds.
Many of us are, as James in SOFL pointed out, just fed up with and
rebelling against an ad campaign we find insulting. Some of us just
prefer to work with other stones that we find more interesting. I
also doubt that the dollars destined for diamonds are the same
dollars we’re after.
It’s important to bear in mind that not all Orchid members are
makers or sellers of - how to put it? - high-end, mass-market-appeal
jewelry with faceted stones. Not that many of us, from what I have
gathered, own a storefront or have employees. A lot of folks I have
met here are working generally with silver, maybe a bit of gold, and
with semi-precious stones, and I think that many of us would consider
ourselves art jewelers, meaning that the pieces we make should be
valued for their aesthetic quality rather than the worth of their
constituent parts. This is not to say that high-end gold or platinum
jewelry set with diamonds can’t be art jewelry, but it seems that a
lot of us are not at a financial level that would allow us to work
with such materials on a regular basis. Even if the material cost
were not a problem, I think many of us would still prefer to work in
so-called “lower-end” materials because of the greater creative
flexibility this enables.
On the other hand you are telling me that $560 is 12% of your annual gross income, which puts your income at about $5000. To me that means that you aren't making a good profit
I don’t know all the particulars of Zen Sojourner’s accounts, but I
don’t mind saying that I am not making much more than that with my
one-woman web business. However, I am making a decent profit from my
jewelry in the sense that I am well compensated for the time and
monetary outlay I put into it. The gross profit I earn from my
jewelry is limited by the amount of inventory Ican make (or choose to
make) and by the number of shows I choose to sell at, in addition to
the sales I make through the web. By attending three to four shows in
a year, I reckon I might make about $9,000 to $11,000. As others on
this forum would surely tell you, this would be darn good profit for
someone just starting out, as I am, in my line of work. How do I live
on that, you ask? Well, I have two other seasonal jobs and a very
supportive husband. I’m not out to make big bucks, and I don’t
particularly care if I don’t (though it would be kinda nice). I’m
having a great time, and that’s what matters tome.
My point in all this rambling is that there seem to be two very
different worlds are represented here on Orchid, with grey area
between. When it comes to marketing decisions, profit assessment,
business advice, and anything beyond the realm of jewelry-making
techniques, what applies to one world may not always apply to the
other.
All the best,
Jessee Smith
www.silverspotstudio.com
Cincinnati, Ohio
However I can't for the life of me see how being guaranteed that a product you bought would go up in value at, or about, the rate of inflation every year is a bad thing.
Daniel,
With all due respect, this is not always true. I remember that in
the late '80’s the prices of diamonds were being inflated by the run
up in the securities markets and that 1 carat D-IF diamonds were
being sold at auction in the $50,000 range. Those who bought at the
top quickly lost the value of their investment when the securities
market took a dive and the price of diamonds dropped accordingly.
What price would a one carat D-IF bring today?
Joel
Joel Schwalb Studio
@Joel_Schwalb
It's important to bear in mind that not all Orchid members are makers or sellers of - how to put it? - high-end, mass-market-appeal jewelry with faceted stones.
Have you (and the others who seem to think that Daniel Spirer is a
“high-end, mass-market-appeal” jeweler) taken the time to look at his
work?? http://www.spirerjewelers.com
Beth