Gemesis laboratory grown diamonds

Jewelry Discussion
41 
To me, when I see a diamond, I see something cold, hard, cruel,
colorless, lifeless, something that cuts like a knife, unfeeling
and not just dead, not just not alive, but UNliving.

Diamonds are cruel? That is quite a harsh indictment of an inanimate
object.

I never insinuated in any way what you should or should not feel or
believe. All cultures have symbols. Chinese have bats as good luck.
White buffaloes were were held in high regard by Native Americans.
Eskimos have totem poles.

You seem to be very adamant that you be recognized for your dislike
of diamonds and what they represent. I have no understanding of why
something that never was alive cannot be a symbol of love and
commitment.

I have my opinion, you have yours. It just happens that something I
find beautiful also has an intrinsic value and desirability, and it
gives me pleasure to make jewelry with them, and sell them to people
who are attracted to them. Does not have to be logical or rational.
It works for me in a social, societal, and way of community.

I am well liked and respected for the part I play in creating objects
that are used to HONOR LOVE and COMMITMENT.

Carbon is the building block of all living things, and diamond is a
special form of carbon. Diamond is a “higher” form of carbon than
coal. Symbolic? Human as a higher form of life.

Should you like them? Not important. Are they popular? YES!

Metal is no different as diamond to wear on your finger as a symbol,
cold hard, knife like.

So howabout we use a wood, or a french fry, or a piece of tuna, or
string cheese as a ring, cause it was alive

Suppose we imagine a field beyond right and wrong, and we agree to
meet there. Rumi

Richard Hart in Delightful
Denver
Where Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend

42

Shallow used in this context implies to me, judgement and criticism,
condescending attitude, and delusional superiority.

Name not withheld by request,
Richard Hart

43 
Most of all, why do YOU think I'm supposed to?

Because you are a jeweler. Because it will help you to make a
living as a jeweler. Because you can always appreciate colored
stones and diamonds (but for that matter what makes any colored
stone or metal, all of which have the same properties you attribute
to diamonds represent anything??–and if they don’t represent
anything to you then why are you a jeweler???). One is not
exclusive of the other.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

44 
  Believe it or not, there are a lot of women out there who don't
care for them, either.

And that’s why there are other colored stone options for them. I
don’t think anyone has said that everyone has to have a diamond, but
as a jeweler, to restrict your customers from getting them, if that
is in fact what they want, seems to be somewhat self defeating. As
for your suggestion of amber: It won’t last the life of the
marriage (not even some of the quick ones) in a ring and it’s going
to be a pretty big ring for most women, to get a piece that looks
like something. How representative of undying love is something
that will wear away over time. And that is what we are selling as
jewelers–the meaning behind the ring, not just the ring itself.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

45 
... What is amazing is how our opinion of this is so driven by our
passions, especially the folks who skirt the whole issue by stating
that they don't even like diamonds.

Hello Tino,

Interesting choice of words. So, would you say that if someone
doesn’t like oysters then they’re “skirting” the whole shellfish
issue?

As one so “skirting” I can say that it’s not a matter of avoiding the
issue at all, it’s a matter of putting it in it’s proper place.
Diamonds have wonderful technical qualities that no one is disagreeing
with. As to being the “ultimate” this and the “wonderful” that …
well, as has been said, that’s a matter of opinion.

One of the things that I find quite compelling about this whole issue
is that so much of what is commonly said in defense of diamonds are,
in fact, quotes from the marketing campaigns of diamonds themselves.

The diamond marketing and advertising done by the public relations
company N. W. Ayer is generally accepted as being some of the most
successful in history. Statements like “diamonds are forever” are
theirs and were specifically aimed at killing the secondary market
and thereby strengthening the cartel’s market control.

The whole “universal” appeal of diamonds is again the work of the
marketing campaigns. The PR worked very hard to get celebrities and
royalty to wear diamonds and promote their message and, ultimately,
their product. To a large extend the whole emotional association
between diamonds and love is not history, or fact but marketing. “If
you love her then you’ll buy our widget for her”, “our widget is
the symbol of her beauty and your recognition of it”, etc, etc. Of
course now is has become both history and fact but, as said, that’s
why it’s known as one of the most successful marketing campaigns in
history.

The diamond market is one of those situations where the people that
had a product --and in this case, a virtual monopoly on that
product-- have enjoyed great benefit by creating the demand for their
goods. Good on them, of course, but let’s not forget the history of
how we got here and why. Then perhaps we’ll be in a better position
to decide what we actually think about said product instead of
endlessly repeating what we’ve been conditioned to say about it.

Personally when I hear people waxing poetic about the infinite
untouchable wonderfulness of diamonds I just imagine them saying the
same thing about tires or toilet bowl cleaner. After all, it is a
product and if they’re simply going to parrot the advertising
campaigns verbatim them it seems only appropriate to take it in that
context, infinite untouchable wonderfulness or not.

I don’t know if you meant it so but your “skirting” statement comes
off as being rather condescending.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light

46 
Please sight some source for the above mentioned concept. ... I
think you got diamonds, and oil confused.

Hello Richard,

Simply because it only took 30 seconds to find I quote from
Wikipedia.org (Diamond - Wikipedia):

  Through studies of isotope ratios (similar to the methodology
  used in carbon dating), it has been shown that the carbon found
  in diamonds comes from both inorganic and organic sources. Some
  diamonds, known as harzburgitic, are formed from inorganic
  carbon originally found deep in the Earth's mantle. In
  contrast, eclogitic diamonds contain organic carbon from
  organic detritus that has been pushed down from the surface of
  the Earth's crust through subduction (see plate tectonics)
  before transforming into diamond.

Voila! Some diamonds are squashed gopher guts, among other things.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light

47

Hello all,

Love for diamonds, Sojourner, I agree, is not for all women. I don’t
see the special thing in it, and just some days ago I had the chance
to see the 128 carat diamond ‘star of the south’ at the Tefaf
(international fine-art show), in my home-town Maastricht. First I
didn’t want to have a look, there were so many beautiful things to
see, amazing! But then I heard so many people talk about it (yes
indeed, a lot of them were women) that I thought I shouldn’t miss it
so I went. It was a vendor that had lots of diamonds (Graff), and
there, in a safe place in the wall, with a big man standing aside of
it, there it was, shining to me. I didn’t need to come close, it was
too big, and was making me laugh: one stone, very big indeed, so
wanted that in a very good guarded show (we all had to show our bag
coming in =E1nd going out) with guarding-people everywere needed a
guard for itself standing aside all the time! Very shiny indeed,
well cut I am sure, but that was all.

Not for me, I like to see gems and metal playing together but just
well-cut stones is not my cup of tea! And about wedding rings: in
the Netherlands we don’t have this habit. Man and woman have the
same ring (different sizes of course) and most of the time it is a
simple golden ring, and it is amazing how many differences you can
have just in that!

Marleen
Marleen B.Berg

Aventijnhof 11
6215 ES Maastricht, Nl.

48

To me, when I see a diamond, I see something cold, hard, cruel,
colorless, lifeless, something that cuts like a knife, unfeeling and
not just dead, not just not alive, but UNliving.

Wow, you almost make me scared of them too. That would be a great
movie, “UNliving” diamonds terrorizing the masses and sucking the
life out of everyone’s… wallets?

Have your people call my people, we’ll do lunch, talk about a
script.

Cut the drama…

49 
   Where did you think oil came from?  Diamonds are crushed,
pressurized, superheated carbon.  Its immaterial where carbon
originated, at some point (by this time) every molecule on the
planet has at some time been processed through a living being.

I think atom or element would be a better use, because molecules
change all the time through various forms of reactions with other
molecules. Atoms or elements on the other hand are always basically
the same (even when part of a molecule), well I guess then you could
get into ions and isotopes, but for point purposes and just to stay
general lets keep it at the base atomic level. Beside the point, I
don’t think that it is possible at the atomic or molecular level for
every single one to have “processed through a living being.” What
about the man made elements that only last for a fraction of a
second and cannot or have not been yet found any place else but a
laboratory? Then again, what about the man made molecules that are
so incredibly toxic that they would be considered a WMD? I don’t see
how that could possibly be possible. I could be wrong…

50

For the sake of clarification, diamonds are formed just below the
earth’s crust (not in the core), and not from decomposed animal
matter, but from when tremendous heat and pressure on rocks called
eclogites (ECK-low-jites) and peridotites (per-RID-doe-tites), which
lend carbon atoms to the mix.

After diamonds (and many other gem materials) have formed from this
process, a geologic event called a magma intrusion can occur. If the
timing is right, water filtering down from the surface causes a very
rapid expansion of gases, and a type of rock called kimberlite (or
sometimes, lamproite, as in the Argyle mine’s composition), forms
along with it. As this formation occurs, the gases and rock travel
faster and faster toward the surface, bringing the diamonds, garnet,
spinel, etc. up to the surface in an ever-expanding, inverted
cone-shape that results in what is known as a kimberlite eruption.
Many of these other gem materials are found as inclusions in
diamonds.

By the time it all erupts, it is traveling at over 125 feet per
second, tossing tonsts of material into the air. When it all settles
down, this “pipe” is sometimes diamondiferous enough to develop and
mine for the diamonds. But don’t count on witnessing a kimberlite
eruption, there hasn’t been one in hundreds of thousands of years.

James in SoFl who still isn’t partial to diamonds, but certainly
doesn’t dislike them. I’d still rather have a fine opal.

51 
Increased popularity of synthetics might drive it down, though. 

    This has never proven to be the case in the past so there is
no reason to think it would happen now.  There are synthetics of
all types on the market and they haven't negatively impacted any
prices on natural material.

That’s absolutely true. But there is a very significant difference
with diamonds. No other gemstone has been synonymous with marriage.
Bridal jewelry is still the number one selling item by dollar value
in the US (Apologies to the international members of the group, but
the diamond industry is campaigning to get your bridal jewelry
money, too).

Couple the incredible amount of bridal jewelry purchases with our
over 70% divorce rate, and I can easily see young people who are
contemplating marriage looking for less costly alternatives to
expensive natural diamonds.

If I were a diamontaire, I’d be in denial, too.

James in SoFl

52 
    And how it EVER came to symbolize love, I'll never know.

Marketing strategy. Pure marketing strategy. It worked in the US,
it’s working well in Japan now, and it’s beginning to work in China.

James in SoFl

53

Alright, I’m really confused here. Is Orchid not a forum for people
who make a living from selling jewelry, are trying to make a living
from selling jewelry, or dreaming of making a living from selling
jewelry?? So why all the negativity about a product that helps you do
this? Some of you who are struggling now could make a whole lot more
money if you incorporated diamonds into your pieces than you do now.
Who cares why they are valued? They have value. Use that fact to
make more money so you can make more jewelry that you like to make.

I’d like to point out to you that the reason platinum is so highly
valued and in demand in the US right now is because of a marketing
campaign run by the Platinum Guild International, who used to be (and
may still be) primarily funded by the world’s largest platinum
producers. Does that mean we should denigrate the value of platinum?

And incidentally, even if you can’t bring yourself to stick diamonds
in the center of a piece, they are, without any question in my mind,
the best accent stones you can have for ANY colored stone available
today. And they always add value (and hence profit) to your piece.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

54

I think that there is another aspect to the success of the diamond
as an engagement ring. In addition to the fact that “everybody
knows” that it is the proper stone (thanks to a very successful
marketing campaign) it is a neutral stone.

I have made around 30 wedding/engagement rings. I know that is not
many, but I don’t consider myself a jeweler. I AM a romantic and a
sucker for friends and family who want something special and unique
and want me to be a part of this joyous occasion. In every case
except this last one, the couple came to me and the bride-to-be and
I designed an engagement ring which included some form of sapphire
(to me the ruby is the natural choice for a visual expression of
love and commitment). Sapphire comes in a wide variety of beautiful
colors, is practically as rugged as a diamond, is generally cheaper
than a comparable sized diamond, and a larger percentage of the
final price was in the design of the ring, customized to the wearer.

In the last case I spent hours and hours and hours in design with
the incipient groom; I showed him over a hundred stones from some of
the finest cutters working; we designed 6 separate, beautiful rings;
and in the end he went with a solitaire diamond because that was the
only choice that he was SURE that she would be comfortable wearing
everyday for all eternity. She is one of those people who have
expressed a dislike of diamonds, but the combination of the
diamond’s neutrality and a successful marketing campaign wins again.
Diamonds are the most popular choice for engagement rings partially
because they are an easy choice.

I have to say that before I got into the industry I was very adamant
about not liking diamonds. I have since learned that I had seen very
few quality diamonds. I still think that mediocre diamonds are
over-rated, over-used and over-priced, but that is my personal
opinion. As long as Wal-mart is the largest retailer of diamonds in
America I think my opinion will remain valid. I have seen some
beautiful diamonds, and some beautiful jewelry incorporating the
same. I still think that I have seen more dreck than good, but that
also goes for emeralds and rubies which are the stones I am most
passionate about. I am very fond of fancy diamonds, and I still
believe that TO ME an exceptional quality lab-grown diamond is as
valuable as a mined diamond.

Epaul Fischer
Gryphon Song Creations
Signet rings and custom gem carvings
www.gemartist.com

55 
    On that note,  I have to say it, diamond marketing generally
demeans women.  Every time I see one of the ubiquitous diamond ads
suggesting that the guy who gives a woman a diamond is sure to be
sexually pleasured to the point of near coma, I wonder why jewelry
stores and diamond traders aren't picketed by irate women who
resent being depicted as diamond whores.

I contributed to a thread last year after seeing those same
disgusting ads you mentioned. I got a lot of off-list replies in
appreciation, especially from women. Here’s the link, which may (or
may not, if you make your living with diamonds) give you a chuckle:

And again, I don’t hate diamonds, I just have a strong dislike for
the way they are marketed. Those ad campaigns make me feel like I
need a shower.

James in SoFl

56 
And how it EVER came to symbolize love, I'll never know.

Being composed of simply carbon, diamonds were presented as a symbol
of the purity and quality of love-- a pretty clever marketing
strategy that’s been tremendously successful.

They are an incredible creation when you think about it. Pure carbon
changed by heat, pressure and the cutter’s wheel into a clear
(relatively), super hard material that breaks white light down into
its components.

I never had much taste for diamonds until I started to work more
with them. I use melee quite a bit as small points of brightness and
highlight. They are so easy to work with and take the heat of the
torch (I preset and solder often), the violence of abrasion and the
abuse of everyday wear wonderfully. Not to mention colors: Argyles,
yellows, congacs, greens, blues, etc.

What diamonds have come to symbolize these days for some people is
another matter entirely. A segment of the marketplace has come to
equate diamonds with greed, arrogance, oppression, violent death and
the gullability of a society that is easily led by advertisers.

Whether or not a jeweler or client chooses to work with diamonds as
a matter of personal ethics or taste, I still consider them to be one
of the nicest gem materials to work with. From this jeweler’s point
of view, I’d rather set a large diamond any day than another
expensive facetted gem stone.

My two cents,
Andy Cooperman

57 
    Alright, I'm really confused here.  Is Orchid not a forum for
people who make a living from selling jewelry, are trying to make a
living from selling jewelry, or dreaming of making a living from
selling jewelry?? So why all the negativity about a product that
helps you do this? Some of you who are struggling now could make a
whole lot more money if you incorporated diamonds into your pieces
than you do now.

I’m sorry, but there is no requirement to work in platinum or to
incorporate diamonds into your work in order to make a living
selling jewelry.

Furthermore, diamond and platinum jewelry certainly has a market,
but it’s not the ONLY market available. In my market I would not be
able to move such expensive pieces, but I CAN move all the silver
jewelry I can turn out at a good profit WITHOUT having to charge
ruinous amounts of money just to cover the cost of materials.

Around here, the market for that kind of thing would be VERY
limited. You can’t “make more money” on something you can’t sell.

I know this isn’t going to sit right with you, anymore than the fact
that some people just plain don’t like diamonds has, but I find
platinum boring as well. I much prefer silver. I can do more with
it, I can afford a LOT more of it, I feel much freer to experiment
with it, and I can easily make and sell lots of interesting pieces
IN SILVER. I’ll probably never work much in gold, not because I
don’t like gold (I do) but just because it will limit my marketing
possibilities, and also because I just plain can’t afford the
materials.

Maybe someday, way down the road, I’ll be able to afford to
experiment with gold - but certainly not now! I just spent $560
buying argentium silver wire - that’s about 12% of my yearly GROSS
income. I figure I need about another $750 worth of silver,
findings, gems, cabs, etc, and probably $250 worth of tools. That’s
just getting started. That totals up to almost a third of my gross
yearly income. I expect it to take at least a year before I start
seeing actual profit - because I’ll need to cover the initial outlay,
keep my supplies of available materials up, and I’ll need to add
tools as I go along.

There’s no room in the equation for an outlay for platinum,
diamonds, or even gold.

And I’m baffled for why you think it’s a requirement that all makers
of jewelry should have to work in said materials, anyway.

Sojourner
Ottist Itineratus

58 
Is Orchid not a forum for people who make a living from selling
jewelry, are trying to make a living from selling jewelry, or
dreaming of making a living from selling jewelry?? So why all the
negativity about a product that helps you do this?

Hello Daniel,

I understand that one can make a good profit as an arms dealer too,
especially if you go free-lance and aren’t picky about your
customers. I’m not sure that’s justification to wake up one morning
and say “I love surface-to-air missles!”

I think there is a difference between one of us saying “I don’t
particularly care for them” and “under no circumstances would I ever
go near them”. Frankly if a customer of mine had their heart set on a
diamond and I knew how to handle and set that diamond --which I
don’t-- than ya, sure I’d do it.

But if that same customer asked for gemstones recommendations
“diamond” would not be the first word out of my mouth because I think
there are a lot of other stones out there of equal or greater merit
and definitely worthy of consideration.

In all fairness though I think there’s an important point here that
is in some danger of being overlooked here. I’m not a professional
jeweller and I don’t make a living off the jewellery I make. As far
as I know you are and you do.

So when it comes down to it the best I can say is “I don’t fancy
them”, offer my reasons and people can take that for whatever it’s
worth. On the other hand your real world, in-the-trenches, experience
can actually help the audience to which you write make important
decisions about how to conduct their business. I’m talking about
aesthetic preferences; you’re talking about the business and
surviving in it. I don’t think anyone needs a fancy education to
decide who’s input is going to more worthwhile to them.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light

59 
Have your people call my people, we'll do lunch, talk about a
script.

OK, Wise Blood, lets go for it. We’ll improve on the worst movie
ever made and turn it into a gem ! Will call it, The ATTACK OF THE
KILLER DIAMONDS. Very low budget. Let’s do lunch at Mickey D’s.

Pat

60 
    So why all the negativity about a product that helps you do
this?

For me, it isn’t the product itself, it is the marketing campaign.
Sexual innuendo is fine for selling marital aids, I just wish they’d
keep it out of jewelry stores. The posters and “case notes” I’ve
been seeing in fine jewelry stores make them sound like pimps.

    And incidentally, even if you can't bring yourself to stick
diamonds in the center of a piece, they are, without any question
in my mind, the best accent stones you can have for ANY colored
stone available today.

And those are the precise reasons I use them occasionally. As accent
stones, especially when no other stone in my inventory of finished
or rough material will work for me. As neutral as colorless diamonds
are, they can certainly be a “go-to” accent stone.

When I say that I’m “not partial to them” I mean that I’m not
inclined to favor them over another. I don’t hate or even dislike
them, only the greasy marketing hype that has been supported by a
lot of the industry. I even bought several small, irradiated blue
and green diamonds at the last gem show I attended, as well as two
brown “champagne” stones that went well with two opals I had cut.
Most of the greens and blues have already sold in simple basket
earrings. My girlfriend, who incidentally never cared much for
diamonds either, fell absolutely in love with one of the green ones.
It is now set into the ring she wears on her left hand. I, myself,
wear two inherited rings with all Old Mine Cut diamonds. They are
heirlooms (but only to me) that remind me of two very important (to
me) ancestors.

I’m guessing that a lot of people are so put off by the advertising
ideas of trading “diamonds for sex”, “diamonds for a lasting
marriage” etc., that they are feeling somewhat rebellious about the
idea of diamonds at all. It is demeaning to both women AND men. If I
ever feel that I have to trade a diamond for what should be
unconditional, I’ll get a puppy and live in a cave, somewhere. But
I’ll need an alcohol lamp and blowpipe.

James in SoFl