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Forming and soldering long cone


#1

Hello,

Anyone know of any youtube videos or other source(s) for information
re: forming and soldering long cones.

All appreciated,
Linda Kaye-Moses


#2
Anyone know of any youtube videos or other source(s) for
re: forming and soldering long cones. 

It’s in the Jinx McGrath book.
Oh wait, cones? Not tubing or cheniers? Not spicula?

Elaine
CreativeTextureTools.com


#3

I investigated making a long cone, but my project needs the final
cone to be cut into smaller sections, so for me it’s more cost
effective to may small cut off cones.

However I would be interested in a solution as well :slight_smile:

Regards Charles A.


#4

Its down to technique, how you do it. and it depends on the end
product and its use.

Start with some paper, cissors and sellotape, make up the cone to
derive the flat sheet plan.

then try a experimental run with some thin copper sheet. solder up
the seam. and true up on your steel ring stick.

Once youve got the hang of making them in base metal, only then
repeat in the final alloy.

Some dimensions and metal type and thickness would help.


#5

Dear Linda

Try searching the Ganoksin Archive for Spiculum or anticlastic
raising.


#6

One thing that will help you enormously is a proper sized and
tapered mandrel. If a commercially available mandrel will not serve
for the cones you need, think about making one yourself. You can turn
a cone in wax and have it cast in bronze. Clean it up and polish it
and you’ve got a purpose made mandrel for your cones.

Or if you have access to a machine shop just turn one in steel.

Elliot Nesterman


#7
Start with some paper, cissors and sellotape, make up the cone to
derive the flat sheet plan. then try a experimental run with some
thin copper sheet. solder up the seam. and true up on your steel
ring stick. 

I did not want to post about it because it is quite simple, but
since nobody offered anything of any practical value, I am going to
give a solution.

Cone construction starts with calculating template. If template is
correct, the rest is trivial. The template is nothing more than
sector cut from a disk.

To determine disk radius - sqrt(radius of the base of cone^2 + cone
height^2) Once disk is computed, next step is determination of
central angle of required sector, which is angle of the cone * 3.14.
That is all. Of course, allowance must be made for metal thickness.
Any of the recently graduated from jewellery courses and not aware of
this, must contact their schools and request a refund.

Leonid Surpin
Studioarete.com


#8

You can even turn a mandrel in a hard wood, if it doesn’t have to
stand up to years of hard use.

If your cone is not to be truncated you’ll have to relieve the
thickness of the metal at the point via a long bevel or chamfer,
else the thickness of the sheet will prevent a sharp point from being
formed. Forming a good point will be the most difficult part of the
process. Another option is to make the points separate from the rest
of the cone and solder them on. Certainly easier that way.

Elliot Nesterman


#9

How long is a long cone and what is the taper? I am serious.

I will contact you offline and send you details.

Just let me know the large end and the length and the the small end.

David Cruickshank (Australia)
jewellerydavidcruickshank.com.au


#10

Would it work to make the large paper cone template, cut it into the
appropriate lengths and then scribe onto your metal?


#11

Look for videos on how trombones and trumpets are made. they use a
mandrel to shape the sheet into a cone, cut interlocking teeth to
hold the joint, solder it, then hammer or roll the joint flat.

Rob


#12

There was a segment on a show called “How It’s Made” on making brass
instruments. I just looked, and there is a segment on making tubas
on tomorrow evening on the Science Channel. It might contain some of
the same

Brian


#13

I will attach a file / drawing (pdf) for the soldering.
can the moderator put this into one of your Ganoksin references

Make a cone in thin card exactly as you want it, draw the cone on
your silver and add a bit to the length on the silver, you can always
cut something down to size, it is difficult to add metal if it is not
big / long enough. Also the cone tends to go slightly squint as you
try to bend it to shape, this is not a problem if you have some spare
metal to cut off.

Cut out the flat cone and prepare / file the two long edges
perfectly straight.

Now decide which side is to be the inside of the cone and slightly
chamfer the edges so that when they come together the flat edges will
meet perfectly.

Hopefully you will have a tapered mandril or a suitable piece of
steel to put in a vice to pallet your cone over / against.

Place one of the straight edges against the mandril and with a
mallet carefully form the sheet to a curve, tighter at the narrow end
and less curved at the large end. Now repeat the process on the other
straight edge.

You should have a flattish piece with the two straight edges curved
upwards.

Now carefully mallet or bend the shape round the mandril till the
two edges almost meet.

Make sure that the straight edges do not get bent or deformed. They
must eventually come together perfectly.

If you have a ‘tree stump’ or wood block, by working alternately
between the mandril and the woodblock gradually persuade the silver
edges too come together, using a mallet. It may be necessary to force
one edge just under the other then open the form a bit till the two
straight / flat edges come together, Try to maintain the form of the
cone as near round as you can and the edges straight. This will take
time. The narrower the cone point the more difficult it will be.

Keep edges straight
Keep form as round as possible.

Soldering

When you have the cone formed and the edges tight together, I like
to use #8 binding wire from which I double and twist a long length.

I make a loop to fit tightly round the small end then as if I was
casting on in knitting I loop the wire round the cone every 10 to 15
mm and ten turn the end tightly back into the cone to tension the
loops.

Flux well inside and out especially on the joint.

Warm the flux to dry and place the cone joint side down on your
soldering surface. Place numerous pallions of hard solder up the
length of the joint.

You need a lot of heat delivered in the correct area. It may best to
heat the piece as best as you can making sure the solder is in
position then put the cone upwards, on its end and heat the joint
from the outside till the solder runs. I prefer to use oxy propane
with the work on its side on a pumice or granular medium. This means
that I do not heat the binding wire directly as I am heating the work
piece from the inside.

Dont skimp in the solder, try to get it soldered in one go.

Remove any excess solder before hammering or further work.

David Cruickshank (Australia)


#14

Hi David,

I’m making a cut up cone, but will be using a computer to make draft
up the templates, and making the cones in sections will be cheaper
than making a solid cone then cutting it up :slight_smile:

Regards Charles A.


#15

In the Tim McCreight Book “Complete Metalsmith” in the back of the
book is a chart. to help make a cone. I couldn’t figure it out!!!

I am entering a Bola contest in the local Supply Store and have to
make my own cones. WOW what a challenge. I did make a paper pattern
of a purchased cone. Cut two out of 30 ga sterling and bent each
using the mandrel made for cones and the grooves in a wooden dapping
block. Finally was able toget a fit of the seam after pushing
carefully to create a tension. Managed to solder with medium solder,
but had a bit of a gap in one. Resoldered - not a good one, but did
manage a closure. Decided to roll them in sterling filings and solder
gently! Some of the filings stuck, but decided I didn’t like that -
filed that off - and tumbled them. The Stamping I did to begin with
will be oxidized and I think they will be useable. Don’t think Iwill
try another pair of cones… just round, but not supposed to use
commercial tubing. Oh Woe.

Possible, but a challenge!
Rose Marie Christiso


#16

MAKING A LONG CONE

Make a cone in thin card exactly as you want it, draw the cone on
your silver and add a bit to the length on the silver, you can always
cut something down to size, it is difficult to add metal if it is not
big / long enough. Also the cone tends to go slightly squint as you
try to bend it to shape, this is not a problem if you have some spare
metal to cut off.

Cut out the flat cone and prepare / file the two long edges
perfectly straight.

Now decide which side is to be the inside of the cone and slightly
chamfer the edges so that when they come together the flat edges will
meet perfectly.

Hopefully you will have a tapered mandril or a suitable piece of
steel to put in a vice to mallet your cone over / against.

Place one of the straight edges against the mandril and with a
mallet carefully form the sheet to a curve, tighter at the narrow end
and less curved at the large end. Now repeat the process on the other
straight edge. You should have a flattish piece with the two straight
edges curved upwards.

Now carefully mallet or bend the shape round the mandril till the
two edges almost meet.

Make sure that the straight edges do not get bent or deformed. They
must eventually come together perfectly. Indeed try to keep the whole
shape as near perfect as possible.

If you have a ‘tree stump’ or wood block, by working alternately
between the mandril and the woodblock gradually persuade the silver
edges too come together, using a mallet. It may be necessary to force
one edge just under the other then open the form a bit till the two
straight / flat edges come together, I try to get the form to hold
the two straight edges together by the tension created in the area of
sheet opposite the joint.

Try to maintain the form of the cone as near round as you can and
the edges straight. This will take time. The narrower the cone point
the more difficult it will be.

Keep edges straight
Keep form as round / perfect as possible.
Soldering

When you have the cone formed and the edges tight together, I like
to use #8 binding wire from which I double and twist a long length,
useful for all sorts of jobs, the twist also helps to stop solder
running up the binding wire.

I make a loop to fit tightly round the small end then as if I was
casting-on in knitting I loop the wire round the cone every 10 to 15
mm and then turn the end tightly back into the cone opposite the
joint to tension the loops. Flux well inside and out especially on
the joint.

Warm the flux to dry and place the cone joint side down on your
soldering surface. Place numerous pallions of hard solder up the
length of the joint.

You need a lot of heat delivered in the correct area. It may best to
heat the piece as best as you can making sure the solder is in
position then put the cone upwards, on its end and heat the joint
from the outside till the solder runs. I prefer to use oxy propane
with the work on its side on a pumice or granular medium. This means
that I do not heat the binding wire directly as I am heating the work
piece from the inside.

Don’t skimp in the solder, try to get it soldered in one go. Remove
any excess solder before hammering or doing further work.