Experience with knew concept power saw

Jewelry Discussion
21

Lee

Those of us who are having problems setting the blades in the hand
saw are just trying to solve a problem. There is no question that
the Knew Concept saw is an excellent development and we have the
greatest respect for your work. The very fact that we are telling you
about our issues is actually a compliment to your integrity.

One of the first things I did when I had problems entering and
tightening the blade, I measured the blades. I purchased some new
ones, measured to be sure it was the exact length of 5 1/8 before I
tried to enter it. Please don’t make the assumption that we didn’t
think of that too.

My 3" saw has the knob tightener, not the lever that is described. I
wish I had been alert to that choice when I purchased it.

It is certainly a beautiful design. I just wish it didn’t take so
long for me to adjust. Unfortunately, it sits in my drawer.

Best regards,
Ruth Mary

22

Lee’s right, the “problem” is we have had “one” standard for bench
sawframes for many many years. We now have a new design that works
beautifully and the new users just need to adapt. There is no perfect
piece of equipment, but Lee certainly is trying to provide us with
tools that make life easier.

Thank you Lee, and I love my KC electric saw, it feels like sewing.
It did take me a while to learn how to insert the blade into this
one, but I got it.

Jennifer Friedman
Ventura, CA

23 
When I tighten the knobs to hold the blade in place, BEFORE
attempting to tighten the blade with the cam, the knobs simply
break about a 1/4" off the end of the blade.

I have never seen a saw blade, which was correctly tempered. The
assumption is that it is, but assumption is wrong. Frankly, it is
testimony to human engineering that saw blades can be even produced
so cheaply. We have to treat it as semi-ready for use, when we get it
from a store.

Always buy blades in gross and re-temper gross as a unit, by burying
it in quartz sand and baking it in regular kitchen oven for several
hours at 500 Fahrenheit, let it cool slowly overnight. In old times
blades were re-tempered by putting them inside loaf of bread before
baking. Some even believed that rye does better job than wheat, but
we are not going to go there. I do it with all my tools. You just
cannot trust commercial tempering. It is way to expensive for them to
do it right.

Once that done, before inserting blade in any sawframe, simply take a
cigarette lighter and anneal an inch of the blade on both sides. They
play no role in piercing and it help to dampen vibrations. I guaranty
that it will resolve most of problem with blades.

I am sure there will be some who would say that it is way to
involved. But that what goldsmithing is about- discipline and
attention to details.

Leonid Surpin

24

The Knew Concepts Piercing Saw, I have been using these saws for the
past two years now and find them a delight to use. Yes sometimes the
blade tightening system can add a few seconds to the time scale, but
the value and pleasure of using such a lightweight saw frame over
long periods is a big benefit. my most used frame at the moment is my
5 inch titanium with the lever tension release and I love it. As for
those who experience blade breakage when inserting and tightening a
blade, I would suggest that the anvil screws may be misaligned, there
are instructions on the Knew Concept website to cure this problem,
see; Knew Concepts Precision Crafted Saws and Tools

and click on questions.I have been hand saw piercing for many years
now and over the past 25 years I have used the Swiss made Glarden
Vallorbe round back Jeweller’s saw blades and I have found them a
reliable saw blade that fit the Knew Concepts saw frames perfectly.

Happy piercing.
Peace and good health to all.
James Miller FIPG

25

I must have been in a cave in Sumatra for some years, not to have
heard of the “Knew” Saw. Who knew? Is there a cheap alternative? At
several thousand dollars for what looks to me to be a fairly simple
function, it seems there should be.

Gary Strickland, GJG

26

When I was developing the saw frame, I assumed that blade sizes had
standardized in length. This seemed logical as we had entered the era
of mass production. I was wrong. The saw went through an entire
series of developments and serious critiques before it went on sale,
and blade length nor difficulty in loading ever came up in the
discussions. For those that are having difficulty with loading blades
that measure 5-1/8" long, please remove the upper blade clamp
assembly and return it to me and I will modify it and return it to
you so that it will clamp blades properly. Do not return it to the
vendor as they will not know what to do with it.

Send to:

Knew Concepts
P.O. box 1338
Santa Cruz, CA 95061

Lee (thesaw guy)

27

I’m so excited that I use the same saw as the great James Miller. We
don’t get the same results but I’m in such distinguished company.

Marly

28

Andy, I don’t get it. I have the utmost respect for you and for
Brian. I have had the pleasure of talking with both of you at SNAG
and CoMA. I have a KC aluminum saw and love it, never had a problem -
well the cheap blades still go off on their own direction, but other
than that, the KC saw is a very fine tool. I have used it with #4
through #6/0 blades on gold, silver, tool steel, titanium and even
copper gutter, and rarely use any of my other saw frames. I have
expensive blades and super cheap blades. Maybe I am lucky in my
purchases. I think the KC is a fine tool, not perfect - the blade
holders still get in the way of my work just like the rest of my
frames, but I rarely break blades like I used to. I wish I understood
what the discussion was about. For me, when I buy a tool, I expect it
to have limitations - I just try to learn and master them.

marlin

29 
It is certainly a beautiful design. I just wish it didn't take so
long for me to adjust. Unfortunately, it sits in my drawer.

I figured out what works for me, and that is to put the blade in the
bottom, tighten it, lower the top adjustment knob until the blade
bows, and then tighten the top knob, raise the top till it is the
right tension. I have blades from many different companies, I have
not had blades that are too short so far.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.

30

Hi Marlin,

Thanks for writing. It seems that your experience has differed from
mine and I am glad that you are enjoying the saw. As I have said
several times, when the saw is loaded and “up and running” it is a
wonderful tool. It is the loading that stands between frustration and
sawing nirvana in my studio.

Perhaps I missed something but I don’t recall seeing or reading
anywhere about having to adapt to this new sawing technology. I
certainly am not reluctant to adopt or adapt to new methods or tools
but my perception of this saw is that it was simply an improvement on
the standard that we have been using for centuries. I have, in fact,
tried many such improvements including various lever lock and hole
type clamping systems, some with fixed saw frame lengths. None of
those required measuring blades.

Now that I understand that blade measurement is required, I may set
aside some blades of appropriate length. But in any case, had it been
made clear before this thread that there was a problem in this area,
I may not have faulted either myself or the saw. Absent that
(and, again, reading all to the contrary) I
finally stopped blaming myself and began to look at the saw.

So, again, in my eyes, for those who have had a problem with the
saw, it is not your fault. Either for choosing short blades–who
knew?-- or for not immediately beginning to measure the blades at
hand.

This thread is not a condemnation of Lee or Brian. It began as a
mis-posted complaint and concern about a product, a complaint and
concern that I stand by. My irritation lay in how this concern was
addressed and where the finger of responsibility was pointed.

For those who love the saw that is great. Once this problem is
solved it will truly revolutionize the sawing experience. But those
of us who have expressed honest concerns and even dissatisfaction
with the product are not heretics or poor sports. We are just
relating our experience.

Take care,
Andy

31

Hello Gail,

Back to your original question about the POWER saw. I wish I owned
one. I did have the pleasure of putting my hands on and operating the
Knew Concepts Power Saw. WOW! As others have said, it’s like using a
sewing machine… adjustable speed, vertical stroke, stable platform.
Verrrry Smoooooth. If your friend has the bucks to buy it and does a
lot of sawing, s/he will love it!!

Judy in Kansas, where a mass turtle escape has me looking for the
little darlin’s!!

32

It occurs to me that there might be a simple answer to the problem.
I know that in the beginning, that due to unfamiliarity with the
saw, that the upper clamp came apart, and had to be re-assembled.It
is possible that when you put it back together, that you put the
black knob on with the knurls pointing up, rather than pointing
toward the blade. It would seem logical, but the problem is that the
threads do not extend all of the way through.

There is a recessed area inside the nut, that will not grip the
threads. If you are having the problem described by some posters,
take a look at the nut. This might be the problem.

Lee (the saw guy)

33

I have been reading these posts regarding Lee Marshal’s Knew Concept
Saw since the saw was introduced, and have not until now thought of
how I might add to this conversation.

Besides being a metalsmith and instructor for many years, I have
also developed and marketed a number of tools and products now being
sold to jewelry supply companies across the U.S. I can absolutely
relate to the issues Lee Marshal, the inventor (and manufacturer) of
the Knew Concepts Saw is going through.

Deciding to take a tool that has remained mostly unchanged for a
century or more, and revolutionize it to create an easier sawing
experience was a brave and bold decision on Lee’s part. He had to
know that regardless of how his new tool ended up in the marketplace,
he would have accolades from many, and some vocal unhappy customers,
as well.

I can only imagine the number of prototypes Lee made, to end up with
one which met the most design requirements. I actually own one of his
pre-production prototypes, which I cherish. This research and
development process is an expensive and time-consuming activity, and
a big gamble that this new product will somehow end up being
financially viable. The inventor tries to come up with as many
improvements in the design as possible, before it goes into
production, but one can’t anticipate what will happen as consumers
buy and use this new product.

As you can imagine, this Knew Concepts Saw will go through design
improvements as time passes, due to totally unanticipated problems
which pop up as the users of this new saw start using it in their
studios. Lee has been diligent in seeing what changes needed to be
made in his saw. New frame materials, blade orientation, and blade
securing technologies have been changing on this saw since it was
first introduced, which make it faster to load, the frame stiffer,
more versatile, etc.

To those of you who have purchased this Knew Concepts saw, in either
its first production design, or in one of its more recent more
advanced designs, please recognize that whatever shortcomings you
have experienced in using this new saw, you have contributed in an
important way to the continuing process of creating and marketing
better tools. Complaints and all, your combined purchasing power has
enabled Lee (and others) to continue designing and developing better
products for the metalsmithing community.

I interviewed Lee Marshal a few months ago at the SNAG Conference in
Seattle, and discovered that almost all his waking hours, 7 days a
week are devoted to the manufacture of this Knew Concepts saw. Brian
Meek, who also has a huge role in manufacturing parts for this saw,
also works incredibly hard to make this saw a success. I know that
profit is not what motivates Lee and Brian to work as hard as they
do, but rather that they want to be a part of something which helps
metalsmiths and other craftsmen (and craftswomen) work better and
easier. My hat is off to you both for what you are doing!!

Jay Whaley

34 
I figured out what works for me, and that is to put the blade in
the bottom, tighten it, lower the top adjustment knob until the
blade bows, and then tighten the top knob, raise the top till it is
the right tension. I have blades from many different companies, I
have not had blades that are too short so far.

Yes, well said!

I have to admit I’ve been pretty puzzled by the emotional charge
behind this original posting of this thread. In my experience, like
yours, the saw seems to be able to take just about everything I can
throw at it in terms of the + and - sizes in the “standard range”
lengths of jeweler saw blades. I have to say from outset, it has
sounded like a basic error in steps while loading the saw. I suspect
that’s what Lee must have perceived as well when he offered to
actually physically demonstrate how it’s intended to be loaded by
design. He ought to know, after all. (Who knew? He Knew!)

But hey, what do I know? I know that for me the Knew Concept
hand-saw its a GREAT saw with vast ergonomic and structural
improvements over any previous jewelers hand-saws I’ve ever seen or
used.

Charlie Thomas

35

Hello

What would be the best? with or without motor?

thks best
nathalie

36

David, I think I know the problem you are talking about Re: the knob
breaking the end off the sawblades - for a long time, I thought this
was broken parts of previous sawblades, but it became clear that
blade ends were breaking as I tightened the knob.You can solve this
issue easily - there is a grub screw that corresponds to each
tightening knob. With a hex key, turn the grub screw further into
the hole - the blades should sit exactly in the centre of the frame,
so the end of the grub screw must be just off-centre).If you don’t do
this, and the grub screw is too far out, then turning the tightening
knob will push the blade into the grub screw hole, and snap the end
off.One thing that I do find annoying is that the top knob on the
older sawframe turns the wrong way, so that turning it pulls the
aluminium head away from the frame.

Jamie Hall
http://primitive.ganoksin.com

37

Hi Charlie,

I believe that I was the original–although unintended-- poster of
this thread. I have reread it and I wonder where you find the
"emotional charge".

It is wonderful that your experience has been so positive. I like to
consider myself a reasonable person (don’t we all?), so I went back
and turned the adjustment screw around as Lee has recently suggested.
The clamps still only sporadically hold.

I have listened to the advice offered and given it my best shot. If
this is indeed my error as an operator, as been suggested, I will
accept it. But, again, I can’t find it.

I think that this thread may have gone far enough and I don’t want
to see it break down along a fans and non-fans line. I know that many
enjoy this frame and, as I have said many times, I enjoy it
myself–once it holds a blade. And there’s the problem, as I perceive
it.

Let’s just chalk this up to individual experience and move on.

Take care, Andy

38

Andy,

The clamps still only sporadically hold.

I had a similar problem with my Knew Concept saw when I purchased it
in February 2010. When I disassembled it and looked carefully, I
found that the drilled hole had not been deburred properly and there
were some loose shavings from the manufacturing process packed into
the hole. Once I cleaned that out, it has worked like a champ.

Good luck.
Jamie

39

Hi Andrew,

I agree that this thread - at least the part dealing with saw blade
loading - should be “put down”. I completely agree. I also fell it
would be helpful for you to “hear” yourself better, in terms of your
previous posts in this thread.

I believe that I was the original--although unintended-- poster of
this thread. I have reread it and I wonder where you find the
"emotional charge".

Actually, I see that you were not the original poster. The original
person asked the question about the Power saw. I am sure others who
followed the thread also found an emotional charge in your posting,
especially where you concluded by stating you were really “put off”
when you were offered direct help… to the point where you now no
longer want to take a direct approach to resolve the problem you are
having in loading the saw with the manufacturer. This is the point
you continue to deflect.

I have listened to the advice offered and given it my best shot.
If this is indeed my error as an operator, as been suggested, I
will accept it. But, again, I can't find it. as I have said many
times, I enjoy it myself--once it holds a blade. And there's the
problem, as I perceive it.

Andrew, as I perceive it, there are only three possibilities as to
why standard blades are not loading on your saw:

  1. mechanical/material breakdown/failure of the saw frame and/or its
    blade fastening system

  2. design failure

  3. operator training issue

In light of the fact that many folks who own them are NOT having the
same problem, the only way to really resolve your problem is to have
the manufacturer directly check out YOUR saw frame with you, in
person. As was once offered.

And that should be easy, if there is truly no emotional charge
around it, on your part.

Let's just chalk this up to individual experience and move on. I
surely will. Andrew, I truly wish you success in all your
endeavors!

-Charlie

40

Hi Andrew,

I have the power saw and had the same difficulties until I learned
more about it and called Lee Marshall and said “please help!”. On
the frame at the top back is a hinge with a screw on it, make sure
this is bent and loose. You need to make sure that the bottom holder
for the blade is pulled up as high as you can to put the blade into
it. Next put the blade in to the top hole, it will be loose. Then go
back to the hing with the screw at the top back and flip it so it
tightens the whole structure. You will probably have to tighten the
screw to tighten the blade.

I hope this helps,
Jennifer Friedman
Ventura,CA