Eternity ring in CAD/CAM completed

Jewelry Discussion
61

I’ve noticed that CAD, CAM and CNC are terms tossed about a bit
loosely. Excuse me for clarifying the terminology…

CNC stands for Computer Numerical Control, the process of controlling
a machine’s action by use of a computer program.

The first widespread commercial use was around 200 years ago, using
wooden cards punched with holes to control the weaving patterns on
looms. Engine turning and chain making machines are examples of
machines that are programmed by use of mechanical means such as
levers, cams and gears.

CAD refers to Computer Aided Design- Auto-CAD is a well recognized
program that aids in the development of drawings and renderings of
material objects. Specialized programs have been developed for the
jewelry industry, some of these programs can take a drawing and
convert it to G code, the program that runs specialized manufacturing
equipment. Hence, CAD/CAM.

There are, of course, other coding systems.

CAM refers to Computer Aided Manufacturing; controlling machinery by
numerical control. The specialized output of the computer code is run
on a targeted machine tool- 3D printer, milling machine, lathe, laser
cutter, etc. The equipment involved still requires human setup,
intervention, calibration, and replacement of worn parts and tools.

62

Hi

That being said, I don't think this thread is constructive because
it feels that it has become an argument of absolutes.

I disagree with this also. At times a tedious argument but overall
it is very interesting.

First ring did not quite make it, what does first time out?

It will be very interesting to see Charles’ version. Also the post
that it can be printed in gold is interesting let’s see one.

I think that we may see a CAD piece that needs to be hand finished
to meet Leonid’s dimensions.

If it can be done in CAD can CAD set the stones, can they be cast in
place?

The price of printing seems prohibitive for work in sterling, but in
gold is very close to CNC made jewellery.

As the cost of 3D printers is getting under $1000 they will soon be
in many workshops. But as always it will come down to the design
skills of the jeweller.

Richard
Xtines Jewels

63 
Charles these look a lot cleaner than his piece. Let's see the
finished product and your handy work."

Well, that’s a huge part of the problem imho. Charles’ handy work
needs a small army of paid skilled/talented people to actually
make+finish this ring, as opposed to Leonid doing the whole damn
thing from start to finish by himself. in short order I’d like to
add, as opposed to the several months(years?) it’s taken Charles to
finalize and initiate a 1st stage of construction!?

Charles should make+finish the ring entirely by himself, just like
Leonid has.

“Handy work”, in Charles’ repetoire, simply does not exist but has
to be additionally purchased a multitude of times.

A poseur…

64 
Charles should make+finish the ring entirely by himself, just like
Leonid has.

Firstly Mister Sterling, I “do” take great offense to being called a
poseur, as I’m sure you’d take great offense to being called
“ignorant”…

So you may no longer be called ignorant, and so you know what you
are talking about. Here’s some about me.

I am a fully qualified jeweller, I prefer to make by hand, and I do
make by hand. I have won an international jewellery competition, so
others think my hand and design work is okay. Prior to gaining my
trade qualifications, I spent my time being a sculptor, a leather
worker of 36 years standing, a cutler (a blade maker) of 31 years,
and a metal caster (casting in kilos of own alloyed metals). So now
you know “Handy work” “is” very much in my repetoire.

You can choose to still believe that “Handy work”, doesn’t exist for
me, but be aware that you’d be very wrong.

Now that’s aside, let’s get back to your post.

Yes I did step back from the challenge due to study commitments and
a serious lack of (try replicating the inside of the
Sydney Opera house with only an image of the outside ;-)). I was also
harassed off list about this, so forgive me for losing motivation.

However when I did have the I needed, it took me about
an hour to make four different, ready to print designs, and the files
were shared to those that wanted them. I learned a lot from the
process, and may use this tool for other purposes.

The best thing about this tool is that you can design on the fly,
and see a true representation of the product without ever making the
piece. I suspect this is why Tiff, actually uses CAD, so that they
can streamline the design process.

A small army is not an accurate description. A more accurate
description would be a designer (me, inspired by Leonid), a means to
grow the design in wax (the printing house), a means to cast the wax
(a very good casting house), a person to finish the piece (me again),
and a setter (I’m going to get a professional to set the stones).
True that’s 5 people including myself, as opposed to one, but hardly
an army, but very commercially viable.

The challenge is, and has always been, a casting challenge, so now
we’ll see if a ring that has less metal in it can be cast, and set
with stones.

Regards Charles A.

65 
Charles these look a lot cleaner than his piece. Let's see the
finished product and your handy work.

I think that I said at least a dozen times that pictures I provide
are only for general idea and should not be copied directly. Every
jeweler should contribute hes/her own sense of artistry, but preserve
the spirit of the design.

Treat it like a napkin sketch that you got from a client.

It is like drawing a portrait. One does not have to get exactly all
the details.

As long as character based anatomical features are expressed
correctly, everybody will recognize the subject, even if shape of the
nose or color of the eyes are different.

Leonid Surpin

66

Hi Marko.

Have you ever worked in a trade shop? Most big shops rely on
specialists, especially setters.

There’s nothing remotely unusual or second rate about it. Even
Faberge used a whole host of specialists to make the pieces he
designed.

Who would you rather trust with a $50K diamond? A guy who was just
polishing a chain, and will be working wax in ten minutes, or a guy
who’s done nothing but set diamonds for the past 20 years? If you
get serious, you hire the best you can, even if that isn’t you.
(Perhaps especially if that isn’t you.)

I’m moved to remember a comment from my diamond setting tutor in
London, once upon a time. When I asked him how he’d go about
fabricating a tricky setting that I was thinking about, his reply
was “I dunno, I just set the things. Ask a mounter.” This from a guy
who kept a several inch tall pave parrot on his desk.

Regards,
Brian

67

That Charles has chosen many persons to make the ring does not mean
it could not be achieved by one person.

The ring could also be carved and polished from a solid piece (or
pieces) of metal using CNC equipment, and need not be casted.

The jeweler who relies more on hand making and the CAD/CAM jeweler
are both striving for PERFECTION. CAD/CAM is the "State of the Art"
way of approximating perfection. To argue that “handmade” jewelry is
more desirable than machine made is disingenuous when it’s perfection
we are striving for. It is much easier for a CAD/CAM jeweler to
design and create imperfections in a ring (if that is what is
desired) than for a “hand making” jeweler to achieve uniformity of
motifs in a piece of jewelry.

How many of us prefer hand cut CZs over machine cut ones? The real
question is “Can Leonid hand make a ring as close to perfect as that
done by Charles?” Which one of us thinks Leonid can hand make the
ring done by Charles with the same conditions as he sets for the
CAD/CAM jeweler?

Curtis
Jewello Limited

68

It is quite common in jewelry workshops that can afford the
employees, if not, part of the work is contracted outside the shop.

69

I don’t know where Podunk Florida is but for all of the Florida that
I live and travel in it is not uncommon to see the classic Tiffany
heavy silver necklace on young ladies. What’s unusual about it? Used
they are around 150 bucks. The retail is what 400 ? I believe they
are great gifts and never go out of style. Many people spend more
than 500 on their phones. Florida does seem to be obsessed with image
though. For example, I see a larger number of surgically augmented
ladies here than anywheres else I travel. (except for Laguna Beach).
I live here in Florida and run marathons. To run marathons I have to
put in about 25 miles a week running to stay near the proper
conditioning. A lot of these miles I do on the beach down my street.
Im getting to a point here. Now I live in on one of the most
affordable/cheapest beaches and yet about 15% or more of the ladies I
see on the beach had either fat graft breast enhancements or
implants. That’s about 5 to six thousand dollars minimum and has to
be redone every 8 years.

Rick Powell

70

Getting a little tired of the Eternity ring in CAD/CAM completed
debate.

However, for my studio, my music preference is to take off my
cochlear implant processors and work in silence. Having lost the
rest of my verylittle hearing years ago from hammering, I now
appreciate not having to hear in my noisy studio. The flex shaft
screech, the loud bang of hammers, the noisy vent, so forth, I
rather not hear them. The flex shafts really makes me twitch for
high-pitched tones drives me bonkers. At least I have a good excuse
not to listen!

That’s the only good thing about being deaf - I don’t have to listen
to my studio while working. I did try to listen to music, but it
requires too much concentration. I can’t listen to music and focus on
my work at once. If I listen to people, I can’t do anything but
focus on them to understand, so it’s challenging to do anything when
people are chatting away.

Joy

71

Hammering to music, interesting tangent. Each process (raising,
forging, etc.) has its own rhythm depending on weight of hammer,
material, etc. One night when our kids were supposed to be in bed, I
was plannishing a large bowl while listening to the late night jazz
program on CBC radio. Our son, then a budding drummer in his junior
high school band, came to my studio asking, “Can’t you at least
hammer in time with the music?” The kids are grown and on their own,
the CBC has gone mainstream and I’m still hammering.

Karen, in Edmonton where the wind came and took the golden leaves
off the elm trees today. Winter’s coming.

72

I hired a business consultant with a PHD once to advise me after
spending 3 months in my store he took me aside and said. Do not do
what you are doing. Hire the best people you can afford and learn
everything they know that you do not know so when they demand more
money then the market can afford youcan say to them, sorry I can sit
on the bench and do what you are doing much cheaper then what you
are costing me. Within a year I had to fire my top guy. I sat on the
bench doing his job until I found someone better and my clients
never missed him. nor did I except for the extra hours I had to put
in. The next guy knew better as well as the rest of my staff. Only
person I needed to fire in 18 years. Then I sold the business and
semi retired. Also the advice of my consultant…!!! Been very happy
ever sense. best money Iever spent was to bring in someone smarter
then me to give me a long term plan. Now I can make anything I can
dream up. But am also needing to learn Cad/ cam which is on my list
within the next year or so. At 66 I still need goals to work towards
to keep on top. and active…

73

I like you Charles. I have been a Hand Made person all my life. but
realize that machines can do a lot of things better then the hand.
Until now as far as I can see machines still can not do great
designs. Hope they never will but over my many years here on earth,
I have seen Buck Rodger phone watches become a reality. Hope my 100
years are up before I see designers and Jewelers go the way of he
telegraph…

Not to mention that some of the most challenging surgeries are now
done using machines instead of hands due to the procession they have
over hand work in the surgery room…

Times have changed. For sure. Try to keep ahead of the curve is all
I can say…

74

Hi Marko

Handy work", in Charles' repetoire, simply does not exist but has
to be additionally purchased a multitude of times.

How do you know Charles’ skill set or level of ability? Frankly you
do not!

People who reach the highest levels of this trade often specialize.
And are in high demand.

When people boast about doing it all. “A jack of all trades master
of none.” Comes to mind.

Few can do every step as well as a specialized person and if they
can, can they do it as quickly? Time is money in this trade.

When doing production runs, a number of different pieces that need
to be done fast. I have found 2 people can produce as much as three
working alone. I have seen sophisticated studios where a number of
people each have specific jobs to do allocated by ability.

One prepares the metal for fabrication as per design.

One fabricates the pieces ready for soldering.

One solders together.

One polishes.

Then it goes to the setter or engraver or both.

Of course there are many possible variations on this crew.

This is one way to achieve quality and quick manufacture. There is
no way of telling if one person made the piece or ten were involved.

Perhaps watching a fine/high jewellery house’s production would be
informative, Boucheron?

This challenge has not been about who can do it all. But can CAD
make the design so it can be cast.

We have yet to see the cast pieces, this will depend on the caster’s
turn around time.

Then they will need to be polished and the stones set.

The people in this trade who should be worried about their jobs are
the mould makers. Don’t need a mould when the wax can be printed.
Anywhere on the planet, those little 0’s and 1’s can be emailed.

A triumvirate of a designer/jeweller (knows how fabrication works),
a geek (does the programing) and a tech (to tell you why you should
have got a MAC, which you do and then fire the tech). Could be
anywhere there is broadband access.

Richard
Xtines Jewels

75

Thank you Richard for speaking up. I wouldn’t appreciate being sent
to a gastroenterologist when my body needs a neurosurgeon.
Specialities exist for a reason. But even here, machines (robots) are
being employed to do surgery. We are in another sort of industrial
revolution - and history repeats itself, there are still people who
want to bash and smash the machines. My advice to young people is the
same as to myself - learn and go on learning. Your skills if you
allow them to stagnate will someday be obsolete. The skill of
learning never will. Thanks to everyone who shares with us newbies
and experts alike their knowledge accumulated over years of practical
experience. Orchid is a university that is world wide.

76 
Not to mention that some of the most challenging surgeries are now
done using machines instead of hands due to the procession they
have over hand work in the surgery room..

Just read yesterday. Number of errors in robotic surgeries are
double of humans, so if I would ever need surgery guess what my
choice would be.

Leonid Surpin

77 
I think that I said at least a dozen times that pictures I provide
are only for general idea and should not be copied directly. Every
jeweler should contribute hes/her own sense of artistry, but
preserve the spirit of the design.

But I thought in this case the objective WAS to duplicate your
design. This statement sounds like “fuzzy logic” now.

Todd Welti

78

We are in another sort of industrial revolution - and history repeats
itself, there are still people who want to bash and smash the
machines.

I’ve been watching this thread with great amusement. Welcome to
reality…

79 
Your skills if you allow them to stagnate will someday be
obsolete. The skill of learning never will.

This important idea becomes more vital as the world progresses
faster and faster. There is even a term, now, for this important
skill-- it is called being an “expert novice”.

Noel
Noel Yovovich

80

Orchidians- I’ve been watching this thread forever. Then this
morning I read this terrific passage which offers a well crafted
perspective: No machine can compare with a man’s hands.

Machinery gives speed, power, complete uniformity, and precision,
but it cannot give creativity, adaptability, freedom,
heterogeneity. 

These the machine is incapable of, hence the superiority of the
hand, which no amount of rationalism can negate. Man prefers the
creative and the free to the fixed and standardized. 

The machine, of course, came into being for man's use and
advantage; therefore, we need not avoid it but should find a way
of using it more cleverly than we have done hitherto. 

Soetsu Yanagi
"Toward a Standard of Beauty"
1954