I am also curious what people think about the Olivia mill. I have a Durston DRM100 that has gotten very little use over the years. Every time I attempt to roll out some sheet with just paper textures, I pull my shoulder out (I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome). This last time, it was 2 months of pain before the ligament heals and moves back into place. I don’t know if 4:1 or 5:1 gear reduction will be much better. I’ve watched several videos of the Olivia, and it looks like there is a lot of spinning of the wheel. Inertia does some of the work, but it does take more time. I really wish there was a way to try before you buy. I’m going to get in touch with some of my jeweler friends that live near me to see what a “normal” gear ratio feels like, but the Olivia is as far as I feel I can go as far as expense. It still feels like it’s out of my budget, but I have so many things I want to do with patterned metal - one specific pattern. Any more input would be greatly appreciated!
Hi,
According to the Durston website, your Durston DRM 100 has a 4:1 hear ratio, which I believe is a pretty standard, or “normal” gear ratio.
julie
Have you considered an electric one?
Look for someone to help you when you need it. I have a grandson who likes to turn my mill. You could also explore contracting rolling out the pattern to another metal artist. It really sounds like you need an electric mill because a mill can be used for so much more than just roll printing. I think that your mill already has a 4:1 turn ratio. My wife is recovering from extensive shoulder surgery and it has been a real chore for her. I know that she doesn’t want to hurt it again. Good luck…Rob
I was mistaken on the name of my mill. It is the Durston 100 Mini Mill. It doesn’t have a gear box.
That would be great, but they are more expensive than the Olivia.
The Durston mini is a tough mill to turn! Especially with shoulder issues. I’ll bet that any mill with a 4-1 or a 5-1 reduction gear will blow you away by how much easier it is. I’ll bet that you don’t need to buy an electric mill or a Durston Olivia.
I’m not sure where you bought your Durston mill, but there’s a chance if you ask to speak with the sales manager and tell them your story they’ll take your old mill as a trade-in and apply it to a new mill. Tool companies don’t like to do trade in’s, but it’s in their best interest to help someone out with physical issues to keep working.
You asked about try before you buy. Many if not most jewelry tool companies have a 30 day return policy. It has to still be in new condition and you have to pay return shipping (which can be expensive with a rolling mill). In the online buying era, they really have to have a return policy. Just make sure that you clarify the specifics of the return policy before you purchase anything.
Other ways to try out different mills.
Jewelry trade shows. They’re in multiple locations throughout the US.
Schools, maker spaces or art centers with jewelry programs.
You may be lucky and live within driving distance to a jewelry tool company.
Pretty much every jewelry store with a shop will have at least one mill. I’d be shocked if their mills don’t have reduction gears. Be honest, tell them your story and ask if you can run something simple through that can’t hurt the mill. It could be a piece of sheet copper, brass, silver or even as simple as a pre-1980 penny (solid copper).
Ask around. For instance, maybe someone in the forum lives within driving distance of you?
I’m not sure if you want a combo or a flat mill?
Some of the Pepe Ultra mills are pretty good for the price. This one has a 4-1 reduction gear.
For example, Otto Frei advertises a 30 day return policy. The Durston Agile Mill Series are also pretty good mills with a 5-1 reduction gear.
I hope all that helps!
Jeff
Hi,
ahh! ok, i see, yes…
Thank you for your insight. It would be lovely to purchase a less expensive, smaller mill. I will check around the area to see who might have a mill I can try. Seattle Findings is within driving distance. They may have a floor model that I could try. Good ideas.
If you’re in the Seattle area, there’s a couple of great schools that I’m sure you could ask to try out their rolling mills. Another possibility.
Pratt Fine Arts Center
https://www.pratt.org/jewelry-metal-studios
Danaca Design Studio (University District, I’ve taught there a lot, pre-Covid. It’s a great place!)
https://wp.danacadesign.com
Best of luck!
Jeff
Yes! Thank you. Both are great options.
While unlikely, if you find yourself around Syracuse, NY, stop by. I have both a big Durston D130 and an Economy mill. The Durston takes 5 turns of the handle for the top roller to turn once and the Economy mill takes 3…Rob
Hi Rob,
So my question would be, does the 1:5 versus the 1:3 gear ratio make much difference for the occasional tasks I would use the rolling mill for, like rolling out ingots or rolling patterns onto sheet silver? I would also be interested in your comments on what the advantages of the Durston over the economy mill are.
Thanks! -royjohn
Hi Royjohn.
(a consideration…i believe the economy rollers are more limited in the amount the rollers open up…and the thickness they can accomodate…i just wanted to mention in case your needs require bigger opening)
i believe the maximum thickness for the otto frei blue economy mill is 2mm
julie
The only drawback that I had with the economy mill is that it didn’t open up enough to roll my ingots fresh from the mold. I had to forge the ingots thin enough so that I had enough gear engagement between the rollers to avoid damaging the gears under the pressure of rolling an ingot. I used the failure of a key way in one of my rollers to justify buying the Durston. I still use the economy mill a lot to roll textures. I also run thin strips of metal through the gears to get interesting shapes that I use in filigree…Rob
Thanks, Rob…looking again today at Amazon’s offerings, I find some which open to 5mm and others which open to 7mm…I think the Durston Agile does 6.5mm. I’ll have to look at these mills again and make notes. There are some mills listed on multiple pages on Amazon with different specs and I’m not sure whether these are slightly different mills or if they are misquoting the specs. I guess I’d have to contact the sellers and nail down the specs first. I’d probably order from Amazon so that I could send it back if it wasn’t as specified. -royjohn
Remember that how wide they open does not necessarily mean that the drive gears are engaged enough to safely keep from getting damaged. My Durston has a safe maximum of 8mm and that works for my ingot molds. Good luck and let us know what you come up with…Rob
“I see,” said the blind man…LOL…You make a good point, Rob. Not trying to be argumentative, but aren’t you supposed to forge an ingot some before rolling it out anyway? I think the adjustable ingot mold I have is 4.5mm thick…-royjohn
Yes, I always forge an ingot before I roll it, as that is what the metallurgists tell us to do and it seems to make a difference, but not enough to get it to fit in between the rolls of my economy mill. There was a time when I researched powered hammers to get ingots small enough to fit my economy mill. I don’t need a power hammer now, but I would still like one…Rob
Hi royjohn,
I have an old Cavallin combo mill that I got a deal on and bought used in the 80’s, a Pepe flat 130 mm (that I also got a deal on) to roll out wider sheet than I could with the Cavallin mill and the Blue economy rolling mill. We also have a Durston D4 mill at my job.
I bought the Blue economy rolling mill to texture metal because it has so many easily replaceable texture rollers. I use a lot of textured sheet in my work and it’s great for that. I will say that I bought my economy mill before Trump era steel import tariffs and our current inflation phase. It used to be less expensive.
I love the economy mill for what I use it for, but I wouldn’t be happy with it if I was trying to use it as my one and only, go-to rolling mill. Compared to the other mills it’s kinda funky. It does have a reduction gear, which is awesome, but it’s just not as well built as the other mills. Plus the narrow maximum opening is very frustrating. At least for me.
Unless you want a mill with the advantage of easily replaceable rollers, for a bit more money, right now I think the Pepe mills are a better choice.
Here’s a couple of their least expensive models:
You’re right on the mark with your shopping logic! Figuring out the return policy before you buy anything expensive. In the online shopping era and not seeing what you’re getting before you buy it, I think knowing the return policy is critical info.
Best of luck!!
Jeff