Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Cad operator who understands stone setting


#1

Having a Cad-operator who knows exactly what the setter needs, it’s
like having a “happy marriage”. Anyone can have a great pattern, but
if the Cad person is lacking the basics in setting skills. The whole
project can come to a screeching halt!

This exactly what happened to me about 2 1/2 years ago, my local Cad
person didn’t have the basics in settings. I had to literally sit by
her and rummage through her design menu’s day in and day out
correcting her patterns because of her lack of skills. frustating. I
nearly gave up all hope of getting this major project even
completed. Not too mention her fees were sky high!


I heard of a fellow in India who came to my rescue. In just two days
he formed a pattern as he had a great understanding of what was
needed. the height and width of the mini-claws, spacing in between
each set of 4-claws. lets not forget the size of stones warranted.
BTW, he is “Graduate Mechanical Engineer”,he has numerous
Canadian-US accounts, you want his name?

I tried 4 other so-called cad-mavens, and none of them even came
close to what is now being created. He emails me the “stl” computer
file to my office, I forward this file to my local wax-carver, then
give it to my caster. well you all know the rest of the process.:>)

Here is the initial prototype, not to be sold, but only to eliminate
any future setting problems! This is the very first time these
pictures have been seen. anywhere!

Gerry


CAD requirements for stone setting
#2

Listen up CAD folks. Gerry makes a really good point here. There are
no short cuts to great jewelry. CAD is such a wonderful tool in the
right hands with the right skills.

It’s torture when the operator has no bench skills or understanding
of how all this stuff is made.

I’m thinking GIA and other schools that teach CAD should insist that
CAD students have basic bench training and stone setting classes
before taking the CAD classes.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry.

Jo Haemer
timothywgreen.com


#3

Glad you found someone you like Gerry. That is a widespread problem
in the biz. There are too many people that, for whatever reason and
maybe not of their own choosing, didn’t go through an apprenticeship
or training where one thing learned is built on by the next. Until
after years of work, you have a good working knowledge and skill set
for the whole jewelry making package. Too many people just do one
thing and never really learn how to do the rest of it. It’s never
made sense to me to have people designing or cad operating who
haven’t first spent years actually making. It’s like having someone
who rarely cooks write a cookbook, the results aren’t that tasty.

Mark


#4
There are no short cuts to great jewelry. 

Tommaso Campanella wrote “City of the Sun”, which was published in
17th century.

Book describes a city where people care of each other; the
government is made only of the wisest people; all property is public;
and everything is so efficient that work day is only 4 hours.
Campanella was a utopian and the book is a utopian vision of human
society.

Campanella was followed by many others and eventually utopian
philosophy culminated in work by Karl Marx “Das Kapital”, which led
to 1917 revolution in Russia resulting in death and suffering by
millions around the world. Utopian philosophies is a denial of
reality, and denial of reality is costly.

CAD is a utopia for goldsmiths. It promises an eternal bliss free
from boring studies and long and tedious exercises to acquire manual
skills. From time to time an issue pops up, but it is always an
operator’s fault. Nobody wants to recognize the basic problem, the
chasm between the real world where jewellery is made and virtual
world of CAD where everything is perfect and efficient.

Bruegel’s painting “Parable of the Blind” predicts the future of CAD
practitioners. It depicts the warning passed to us from Hindu sacred
writings and reiterated in Mathew. It says (I am paraphrasing) When
blind leading the blind, they both fall into the ditch.

Leonid Surpin
Studioarete.com


#5

it’s like someone who hasn’t learned to cook but DOES write a
cookbook.

I’ve had some of those meals I seem to remember in the past! Barbara
on the Island and thinking of the universe


#6
Tommaso Campanella wrote "City of the Sun", which was published in
17th century. 

A nice fantasy novel, I’d put it on the same shelf as Plato’s
Republic, which is an excellent science fiction novel.

CAD is a utopia for goldsmiths. It promises an eternal bliss free
from boring studies and long and tedious exercises to acquire
manual skills. 

I would have said that CAD was a way for businesses to compete. CAD
is being promoted by businesses more than the bench jewellers. Today
in Australia, CAD skills are looked upon with favour, by prospective
employers. It’s looked upon as another tool.

CAD promises nothing, and in the wrong hands that’s exactly what it
delivers. Any tool that you use shows the ability of the user. If
the person using the tool is unskilled this will show, and conversely
if they are skilled this will show too.

However even the man on the street is becoming familiar with drawing
applications, these drawings can be printed for good or ill, and
already there are places that have a business creating objects from
those drawings.

The threat to the hand fabricated jeweller is that libraries from
experienced jewellers who also use CAD, are being put together for
sale. Meaning that the man on the street can cut and paste an
original piece of jewellery (more a 3D collage), that takes into
consideration manufacturing requirements.

Anyway I’m going to worry more about it when it happens.

Regards Charles A.

P. S. Still got the four versions of Leonid’s ring for anyone to
play with (as long as Leonid agrees).


#7

Over the years I have remained mostly quiet with regard to the
significant hot air often released on this forum by some who have
attained a following of the easily led.

However, Mr Anderson and those of his like who have a true
understanding of subject matter speak with knowledge and without the
high level of ego found elsewhere. I would encourage these men and
women who have the energy and time to continue their postings to
assist with the return to this forum of real knowledge in real life
terms minus the mumbo jumbo. Help keep Orchid valid and true.

It has been said that “it is best to remain quiet and be thought
stupid, than to open your mouth and prove it”.

Hope that I am not guilty here.

Regardless of differing opinions, I wish you all the very best for
the new financial year.

Phil Inglis


#8
P. S. Still got the four versions of Leonid's ring for anyone to
play with (as long as Leonid agrees). 

Sure, go ahead. I am still waiting to see some practical results.

Leonid Surpin
Studioarete.com


#9

Hi Leonid and those others who hand make.

Will a stone setter ever learn CAD? Note I did not say understand. I
think not they will be too busy setting stones to have time to learn
something they do not need. Quality stone setting is a fading/dying
art.

I do see a place for CAD in casting. If one wants to make thousands
of an item.

If one only wants one then carving the wax by hand would seem easier
and cheaper at the moment.

3D printing may well change that.

My 2 year old grand daughter will be trained in gem setting. At the
moment she is being taught to be careful and gentle with the
"pretties". She has learnt not to grab them and run but to put them
on and ask for the mirror.

She is also learning to string beads. By 10 she will be setting cabs
in bezels of fine silver. By 15 she will bezel set faceted stones in
sterling and 18 kt.

By then she will also know how to fish for food and catch mud crabs,
paint draw and play a musical instrument.

Laozi wrote in the first line of the Daodejing “The ultimate
teaching cannot be taught.”

Now no new age arguments I translated from the Chinese “Dao fei dao
kei chang dao.” (Wade-Giles)

He meant that until a person has done what they have been taught
they have not learnt.

One can be shown how to but until they do it is only theory.

Patience and practise are the simple keys to quality.

Richard
Xtines Jewels


#10

Last week I finished one project, setting 48 2mm round CZs in three
production sterling silver pendants. I originally made the models, so
I agreed to set the stones. The stones were laid out in 4 places, and
use shared prongs. It too about 1.5 hours to set them all, using a
beading tool. The 3 pendants were cast from a CAD/CAM model, in order
to set them, the stone settings were cleared with a 2mm setting bur,
the stones were placed and beaded in. My background includes model
making as well as goldsmithing, and jewelry repair, 13 years ago I
took a leap of faith and bought a CAD/CAM system. I still fabricate
much of my jewelry, hand carve waxes as well as machining pieces. If
it wasn’t set up right, I’d only have myself to blame.


#11
My 2 year old grand daughter will be trained in gem setting. 

That is a very wise career move in Australia.

Regardless of the means of manufacture, there’s always a need for
gem setters.

Regards Charles A.


#12
Sure, go ahead. I am still waiting to see some practical results. 

I can release the models, thank you Leonid.

Anyone want them to play with, or view?

Regards Charles A.


#13
Anyone want them to play with, or view? 

I most certainly would, thank you!

Both, that is…