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Blue jade


#1

Was: Enhanced jade and semi-jade

Get in touch with the vendor contact person for the Big Sur Jade
Festival at

http://www.bigsurjadefest.com

It’s been a while since I was there, and I can’t remember the names
of the local vendors who collected the blue jade there, but I’m sure
he will know how to put you in touch with them. If you ever get the
chance to be there for the festival in October, it is a wonderful
event!

Carol


#2

Thanks Carol! I went to their website and I do think their is a pic
of the stone I am referring to on the opening page.

Brent


#3

what are you looking for and discussing, i have a large collection of
vonson blue jade from petaluma ca.


#4

Continue from
https://orchid.ganoksin.com/t/blue-jade

Hi Keith,

what are you looking for and discussing, i have a large collection
of vonson blue jade from petaluma ca. 

Could you post some pictures of the blue jade please? Never seen it
before! Thanx for the effort!

Best wishes,
Stephen


#5

I have blue Jade. I made a piece with it and there is at least one
strand left over. http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/1gp

Aileen Parmenter


#6

Hello Keith,

Would you sell some of this blue jade? I live in Nevada and I don’t
get to Petaluma, especially in the winter. Please answer off line. I
contacted you once before and I am still interested in blue jade.

Thanks,
Veva Bailey


#7

I would suggest one be very careful when purchasing “blue jade” given
the vast majority of material on the market is dyed - especially
beads. There has never been a lot of real blue jade on the market and
when it does appear it is very pricy. With the exception of some of
the Big Sur nephrite, very little of it really is “blue”… more like
a blue green. The Petalumanephrite (trade named Vonsen after the
Vonsen ranch where it was discovered) can be nice material, but most
of what I have seen on the market is a washed out grey. The better
grades of Vonsen are more interesting. I have no idea of the status
of this deposit… one does not hear much about it now days. I
understand nice blue jade (not sure if it is jadite or nephrite) can
be found in Myanmar, but that surly goes to China. Gautamela has
ablue (jadite I think) called Olmec that can be pretty. Most of what
I would associate with “blue” jade comes from the Jade Cove region in
the Big Sur area of California… generally ocean polished pieces.
Most of the Big Sur nephrite is a deep blue green, but there appears
to be a wide range of colors there… with some interesting lighter
blues.

Regardless, rest assured virtually 100% of blue jade on the market
is fake. You can buy tons of it on ebay. The “real” blue jade is
significantly harder to come by and prices will reflect that. If you
google any of the above using the variety name like “big sur blue
jade” or “Vonsen jade” you will get plenty of pics. I rarely see cut
stones of any of the above for sale… mostly rough. With the
possible exception of the Myanmar material, none of these approaches
the quality of what we would consider to be a “fine” jade.

BTW… ditto on Peruvian blue opal. The majority of stuff on the
market is dyed as well. Peru prohibits export of rough blue opal, so
the market has been flooded with fakes. You can still find the real
deal, it is just expensive.

Buyer beware!


#8
Regardless, rest assured virtually 100% of blue jade on the market
is fake...The majority of stuff on the market is dyed as well. 

The dying and colouring of stones (jade and others) is widely
practiced. Is it fakery? As long as the buyer is informed on how the
stone has been treated there should be no problem. IMO marketers
should also present an expert report (eg chemist’s report) on
original stone composition for jade.

You can find all sorts of jade in Chinatown-Gastown, Vancouver. I
took some of the “polar jade” jewelry which Leaming says (in his book
"Jade Fever") is the best in the world and cut it up. It lost its
high colour rating with both hammer-and-chizel cuts and diamond-saw
cuts. I conclude then that polishing is what gives it the fine colour
since I think that is all the finishing they used. But even polishing
may cause a surface chemical change and in effect becomes dying.

What turns a piece of jade worth a few cents into a fine and
expensive jewelry figurine, amulet etc? It is not the raw stone. As
Peterson says in his anthropology text “Ancient Mexico”, the
aboriginal people of Mexico regarded jade so highly that only
nobility were allowed to possess it. Uncut stones had little market
value but a commoner would not dare to try cornering the raw jade
market (Some have said that there are parallels to this monopoly
marketing in the diamond trade). And even a mundane piece of jade
carved by a very ordinary carver from Mexico of several thousand
years ago could be priceless.

Google on Cassiar jade. It was so unimpressive before carving that
the miners (including geologists and engineers) threw it away for 20
years until a mine mechanic/rockhound advised that it might be worth
more than the softer asbestos they were extracting.

We also evaluated three carved stone works from Chinatown (alleged)
jade. (BTW they are not sold by the carat or gram but have similar
total weight). Without testing the layman could easily buy any one of
these rather ordinary greenish stones as jade. (1) A simple
rectangular base for a brass abacus; (2) a nice chess set with
greenish-white stones for one side and whitish-green for the other;
(3) an intricate business seal which may have come from a Chinese
trading house in the 1800s.

Now here is the issue. Suppose the stone above is steatite or ______
and not jade. What does that mean for the three main criteria of
gemological evaluation? Stone durability-hardness is high enough for
the purposes of these works (you don’t need corundum to play chess),
rarity depends on how many artists can create such pieces and
aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder.

PS - What does “Mechatronic Carving” do to criterion 2 - rarity?


#9
The dying and colouring of stones (jade and others) is widely
practiced. Is it fakery? As long as the buyer is informed on how
the stone has been treated there should be no problem. 

It is a problem! So called disclosure rules is simply an umbrella
designed to protect crooks, and empower them to continue. Unless
person receives gemological training, such person cannot ascertain
that value of treated gemstones is practically zero. Very careful
language was devised by lawyers to describe such stones to clients,
which appear to be disclosing, but actually concealing that the
stones are pure junk. If client cannot afford genuine untreated
gemstone, the client is better off with lab-grown substitute.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#10

vonson blue jade is not fake it is a blue to blue grayjade that was
found in petaluma calif. there is also a blue jadite that comes from
clear creek calif, i have found blue nephrite here in washington


#11
vonson blue jade is not fake it is a blue to blue grayjade that
was found in petaluma calif. there is also a blue jadite that comes
from clear creek calif, i have found blue nephrite here in
washington 

The quest for fine jade products to serve the fashion industry goes
on at all levels from your Cordilleran prospecting to the final
carved pieces. We prospectors look for “colour”, a saying which goes
back to our pioneer era forefathers. The colour criterion applies to
gold, silver, platinum, iron, copper and other metal ores and it also
applies to the quest for

From across a roadside rock cut or quarry, a splash of paint can fool
anyone. I have been fooled by green paint in a jade quarry but I have
also sent natural green stone as vivid as any paint to GIA. The
colourful glint of diamonds at the Wawa Ontario road-cut fooled
passers-by for generations.

There is no substitute for quality artistry. I regard the enamelled,
multi-coloured brass Mexican calendar on the wall in front of me as
a jewelry piece and it is fashionable. Is it really a high quality
product? Is the expression “high quality” not an oxymoron? How do we
quantify quality?

Would my Mexican calendar be of higher quality (finer) if the
underlying metal is silver or gold or platinum? The relief work is
probably stamped in by machine or carved in by machine, but in third
world countries one may find such tasks being done laboriously by
hand. Is the jewelry product any finer if it is done by human hand
rather than robot?

The Mexican Calendar is only slightly more accurate than the
Gregorian-derived calendar of 2012 which is on the same wall.

But my Future Jade Calendar is more accurate than either. IOW it
uses more re-fined technology to mark off the chronological units for
a fine jewelry product.

Now here is the question. Suppose I send a piece of jade to Torart
in Italy and ask them to use one of their robots to make fine and
refined relief cuts for the Future Jade calendar. Mechatronic art
refines our finery. Would Michelangelo object if Torart robots can
carve to finer degrees of accuracy in three dimensions for the statue
of David than even the keen eye of Michaelangelo could discern? Can
Torat carve a better statue of David? What if it is reduced by
robotic scanner to amulet size and carved in a more durable stone? Is
it then better?

Multi-colours are to be machine-superimposed over the jade
background as is done on the Mexican brass calendar. These blues and
reds and greens are no more “fakery” than the use of cosmetics and
fashionable clothing and jewelry by women at a wine-tasting party
though from across a room who can tell if the women are wearing
natural stones or whether the calendar colours are inlaid precious
stones, plastics or whatever? The wine is served in fine crystal
glassware.

I am, like you, a connoisseur of fine wine and fine women. That is a
test we all must pass in Prospecting 101.

Puritans of gemology will argue that all of the women at the party
should be naked and the wine should be served in mugs.

Happy prospecting!


#12
The dying and colouring of stones (jade and others) is widely
practiced. Is it fakery? As long as the buyer is informed on how
the stone has been treated there should be no problem. 

Yes, it’s fakery. The beauty of a stone consists largely in its
natural coloration. If a stone with an uninteresting color is
"enhanced" with dyes, any beauty it displays becomes an artificial
one - ie -fake. Disclosure is all very well, but this tends to get
lost as a stone goes from miner to cutter to distributor to jeweler
to customer to customer’s heirs and the person who buys it at
auction, who might indeed have a problem figuring out what exactly
was purchased.

IMO marketers should also present an expert report (eg chemist's
report) on original stone composition for jade. 

That would be more expensive than most of these items are worth, and
fairly useless to the recipient, unless it was being bought as a raw
chemical material.

You can find all sorts of jade in Chinatown-Gastown, Vancouver. I
took some of the "polar jade" jewelry which Leaming says (in his
book "Jade Fever") is the best in the world and cut it up. It lost
its high colour rating with both hammer-and-chizel cuts and
diamond-saw cuts. I conclude then that polishing is what gives it
the fine >colour since I think that is all the finishing they used.
But even polishing may cause a surface chemical change and in
effect becomes dying. 

Sorry, but that’s ridiculous. Polishing doesn’t cause a “surface
chemical change”. Polishing has been used forever to bring out the
natural color of a stone. It’s nothing like dying; it is a process
of abrasion with a series of grits that become finer and finer until
the true colors of the stone emerge.

Suppose the stone above is steatite or ______ and not jade. What
does that mean for the three main criteria of gemological
evaluation? Stone durability-hardness is high enough for the
purposes of these works (you don't need corundum to play chess),
rarity depends on how many artists can create such pieces and
aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder. 

Steatite is extremely soft. If one is making an object that is to be
used, like a chess set, it would be unadvisable to use it, because
it won’t stand up to normal handling, much less being dropped. Jade
would be a much better choice, since it’s very tough (which is
different than hardness). Rarity isn’t about how many artists are
involved; it has more to do with the availability of the material.
Aesthetics is where the artists come in. It is indeed in the eye of
the beholder, but some beholders have better eyes than others. In
some fields that have had time to develop a consensus of opinion,
like the evaluation of jade carvings, it pays to listen to people
like that.

PS - What does "Mechatronic Carving" do to criterion 2 - rarity? 

There’s a lot more jade carved by hand than by machine, so I’d think
it would make it more rare. Whether it would make it more valuable
depends on aesthetics, and how good a job the machine did.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com


#13

Disclosure is a huge problem because it just doesn’t happen. Even
when the dealers properly disclose (which is also often not the
case), it doesn’t get passed on from the seller (retailer, internet,
TV) to the consumer, who is often just a nice “sales person” who
doesn’t really know anything except what he or she is told, or what’s
on the sales tag. That’s why there is so much "lead-glass “ruby"
composite” material now in the market, being sold as "treated ruby,"
at prices in the couple thousand dollar range (and above) when it
should be selling for a couple hundred AT MOST, even with 14 kt gold
setting and some tiny diamond accents! If people were being told what
they REALLY are, no one would be buying them as fine "at
the prices they are now paying.

If there were proper disclosure, these glass-ruby composites would
be found only in fashion jewelry, and priced as such. And this is
where they should be.

Unfortunately, finished jewelry containing these ruby impostors are
being purchased by retailers globally and are now flooding the
market. So much for disclosure.

I can still buy cut/polished lead-glass/‘ruby’ composites weighing
3-5 carats each, for a few dollars per carat, but prices are
strengthening because of such INCREASED DEMAND IN THE TRADE! But
while they may look like ruby, but they don’t act like ruby because
they don’t have the gemological properties of ruby, and thus, they
are NOT ruby.

Antoinette
AntoinetteMatlins.com


#14
Disclosure is a huge problem because it just doesn't happen. 

Thank you for the interesting disclosure on lead-glass "ruby"
marketing. I am amazed by what I read. The implications for
gemological marketing in general are great, and also somewhat
disturbing.

National Geographic TV last night treated us to an hour on the
unicorn in literature and art. The Danish aristocrats may be hosting
the biggest jewelry hoax in history. Their Middle Ages ancestors paid
more for the finely carved and polished unicorn ivory than they would
have paid for any other stone. Of course it was narwal tusk and now
it embarassingly decorates their palaces for all to see. OTOH, John
Lenon’s “ivory” sold with fair disclosure for $31,000 and all I can
say is we should start a class action suit to get our childrens’
teeth back from the Tooth Fairy in case they become famous some day.
Do you know a good lawyer?

I have no objection to anybody selling any stone product as long as
there is fair (not necessarily full) disclosure. I think all 12,000
or so Orchidians share a legitimate interest in stone work as
artistic expression. IMO the use of jewelry in fashion is a sub-set
of artistry and art history has much to teach us. I would recommend
"The Heartless Stone" by Tom Zoellner (St Martin’s Press, 2006) to
anyone. It is a factual story on the diamond industry but reads like
a novel. Zoellner keeps you wondering where his personal quest for an
understanding of the diamond, sparked by romantic loss, will lead, as
he travels the world for answers.

The general principles he presents are applicable to jade, rubies or
any fine work with stone. “There is nothing particularly attractive
about a rough diamond” he writes (p. 193). The Romans threw them away
because they could not work them. Glass was better. Personally though
I have never met a raw stone I did not like and maybe fellow
prospectors like Rock9 would agree.

I prefer to display field stones on shelves and if I had set the
course for diamond fashions the stones would all be mounted au
naturelle despite what Zoellner says. But how do we bring out the
best in a stone through artistic talents when fine art is both
subjective and objective? Those talents may include a talent for
marketing and Zoellner gives De Beers due credit along with fair
criticism.

So we learn from De Beers and we use clothing, hair styling, jewelry
etc. to present our social selves in an aesthetic way at a party and
launch the new gilded coprolite industry, mindful of Charles’ posting
that “Jewelry is governed by trends, and what some people consider a
polished turd today will be considered fine jewelry tomorrow”. Some
day GIA may have an opening for the specialization of
proctogemologist and Dr Anderson will apply.

To those who say stones used in jewelry at the party should not be
dyed or coloured or heat treated etc. because that is fakery I say,
Neither should wool or silk or cotton. But what is that.1 carat
amolite coprolite pinky stone REALLY worth? And is the lustre fake or
natural? After a few more martinis I may approach the fashion queen
of the party and say, “My that is a fine piece of snail ____ you are
wearing Miss Scarlet. But I have some really big dino _____ in my SUV
outside, imported from Canada’s Texas (Alberta). Would you like to
see it?”

The finery of our fine new gilded coprolite fashion pieces will be
set only in refined >24 carat aluminum because I inherited a warehouse
full of the stuff from ancestors who almost cornered the market when
aluminum was more precious than gold. We eagerly await the next
aluminum market up-cycle when gold crashes.

This week I saw the classic cameo of woman in profile at Walmart.
From across the isle it drew my attention because of the fine detail.
How much would the Danish Court have paid for such a piece in 1400 AD
if a space craft from the Far Side of the Moon had landed and
presented it to them? How much is it worth if it is carved in jade?
That fine Walmart piece costs $6 today. How much jade would the
Mexica court or Chinese court have paid for it at the end of the last
Ice Age mindful that to Stone Age and some post- Stone Age
civilizations jade was more precious than gold?

History past teaches us history future.

What is BC’s Future Jade worth on the Chinese market mindful that we
send them 90% of our present jade? There are 100 Chinese billionaires
(out of about 800 world wide) like Peter Ho who are invited to give
opinions in Canadian currency. NPV is the key concept in finance.
Black sheep, Nappy Ho, is our accountant. Net Present Value is
determined by an etheric concept which is EXPECTATION. It is the
expectation of future value which sets the price for every fine
security today on the Shanghai Stock Exchange.

Google ref - Jeffrey Hays - “Facts and Details: Chinese Jade”.


#15
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Polishing doesn't cause a "surface
chemical change". Polishing has been used forever to bring out the
natural color of a stone. It's nothing like dying; it is a process
of abrasion with a series of grits that become finer and finer
until the true colors of the stone emerge. 

With all due respect, other experts disagree. Google on Dick
Friesen’s article titled “Polishing Compounds” in which he says “The
polishing mechanism is still poorly understood at the
chemical/molecular level”. Other googleable material has to do with
polishing as a stone metamorphic process and surface
"crystallization" as the polishers call it, as a chemical reaction.

This is important in the context of gemological prospecting along
fault lines. In 1994 an amazing 8 inch shift was measured for the LA
quake. The friction and heat must have been enormous at some places
along the fault. What sorts of metamorphic mineralization
accompanied it… some of gemological interest no doubt.


#16

Someday, the planet might not be able produce any more plastic. So
we are told by those who follow the vanishing fossil fuel theory -
for it IS only a theory. There is another theory about oil, not
discussed but very much believed in certain quarters. So - if plastic
does become rare, what then? Price does not indicate value but it
might become the most prized commodity. Who knows? But for me, full
disclosure is my way in jewelry and stones. I like to be able to say
what it is, where it comes from, what are its limitations, what are
its strengths, how it might have been seen in the past, was it
endowed with a metaphysical quality – what I know, I am not afraid
to impart to the customer. Everything has a story. That story
resonates for you or it doesn’t. Sometimes the story doesn’t even
have words. People buy jewelry because of the story - even if they
don’t know it. “A diamond is forever.” “Pearls mean tears.” “Opals
are bad luck.” These are all part of the story of stones, assuming
you will allow a creation of a sea creature into the land of stones.
But people still buy opals, daring the curse to strike. People still
appreciate the lustre of pearls and the sparkle of diamonds. In a
way, we are all magicians, illusionists - bringing out the best there
is in a stone so someone else might see in it what we see. There is
no ham in that. As long as there is disclosure of what it is –
whatever “it” may be. Who knows what precious, beautiful little
objects the earth, the moon, another planet might bring forth in the
future? And believe me, the price of gold WILL someday go down.
Everything goes out of fashion at some time.

Now, go on making beautiful jewelry for unique people, and stop
qvetching!

Barbara, on a dark night on PEI with the drip of melting snow out
the window.


#17
So we are told by those who follow the vanishing fossil fuel theory
- for it IS only a theory. There is another theory about oil, not
discussed but very much believed in certain quarters. 

Yes, it is known as “Inorganic Origin of Oil” theory, which much
better explains properties of oil, and it is extensively used in
prospecting for oil. Plastics will be with us for a long, long time.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#18

Inorganic oil does exist but proven locations are very sparse and
uneconomical. As for running out of oil, well we can convert oil into
plastic bags and we can sure as hell reverse the process. It is all a
matter of cost. When the price of a commodity reaches a certain level
it become economical to exploit reserves that would otherwise be
uneconomical. We will destroy this planet as a result of
overpopulation long before we run out of oil.

Nick Royall


#19
Inorganic oil does exist but proven locations are very sparse and
uneconomical. 

Let’s examine the roots of “fossil fuel” term.

When Dmitri Mendeleev ( the same guy who invented Periodic Table )
examined oil for the first time, he speculated that it could have
been a product of fossil decomposition, of which he wrote in 1860(s).
Later on, Mendeleev himself rejected his hypothesis.

The reason is as follows: Oil molecule contains huge amount of
energy in it’s bonds. We put this energy to use by breaking down
these bonds via oxidation aka burning. The law of conservation of
energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. It simply
changes it’s forms. So in order for a molecule to contain energy,
the molecule has to be the result of a process capable of delivering
such amount of energy. Organic decay simply does not generate
necessary amount of energy to produce oil. Thermodynamic calculation
shows that oil can only be created at temperatures and pressures
found deep inside a planet, far deeper than any fossil remains could
be present. It is quite obvious that oil is a by-product of
geothermal activity.

If you wonder why this prattle of “fossil fuel” is still around,
take advice from Yogi Berra “follow the money”. A lot’s of it been
made by peddling this tale to the public.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#20

And it is the perception that oil is going to run out next week, next
month or next year that drives the price. Those who control the oil,
drive the perception. Now let us transfer this to precious metals,
diamonds, whatever. Just sayin’…