Bezel setting with no back

Highly subjective observation but a thicker piece of metal wacked
with a hammer seems far less prone to bouncing back than a thin
bit of even fine silver gently burnished. 

I agree. I prefer bezels to be at least .030" but I’ve done up
to.060" with good results. I imagine the reason for the spring back
is that with thin metal the two surfaces are quite naturally very
close together so there is very little soft metal in between to
squish out of the way, the two surfaces are more locked together, if
that makes sense.

Setting a stone in a bezel with a chasing tool and a hammer?
You're a braver man than I am Jeff. 

That is what I meant to quote when I said that’s how I set all my
stones - NOT:

I've always gotten pretty good luck with plain bezel wire and a
burnisher -- but then I've got very strong hands. 

I can’t do the burnisher thing due to lack of strength and I like
thicker bezels than commercial bezel strip.

Helen
UK

Surely if the alternative was losing the stone, then the stone was
not set in the first place. Like Jeff, I favour a thicker bezel
and can't stand commercial bezel wire so make my own from sheet. 

Just grabbed a quote… It’s interesting to hear thoughts on this -
I’m not sure everybody gets the point, though, especially where the
idea of glue is involved. The original post:

a stone that isn't flat-backed like the cabs I've worked with
before as the stone is freeform, I have no flat surface on the stone
to work with, 

So, while the ideas like soldering a bezel down and piercing out the
back are fine for a standard stone, this is not a standard stone or
a standard situation.

Personally, I would look at the stone and then decide what to do
with it. The thing about glue arises (glue-ologists - funny) when
you get to a place where a stone is actually unsettable by any means
mechanical, which certainly happens in the real world. I know that
the idealogues will come out in force, but that doesn’t matter. What
we have is a student setting her fourth stone in a tricky way, not
Michael Perchin - reality. The value of glue is not to “glue” stones
or settings, it’s when you’ve done all you can do and the darn thing
just won’t go. That’s when a bit of glue into the seam will act as a
caulking, the stone is tight and off it goes. Is it cheating? Some
will say absolutely yes. I say that in this case it might be the
final step to keep it all solid - not too far away from inlay work,
actually. Just another tool in the toolbox, and don’t use chisels as
screwdrivers…

Helen

- what it is with green stones?! 

I too really really hate green stones.

One place where I worked they would carefully approach with job bags
containing green stones, apologise, and then run away and hide. It
is possible to train staff, even when they are your boss :slight_smile:

My best solution to the problem is to avoid green stones if at all
possible, they are pretty but not enough for the stress.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

Rick Cook

But if the alternative is losing the stone... 

Back in the day when I purchased gemstone rings for myself I noticed
that the stones would often fall out when the glue bind would fail.
I concluded that the bezels were too narrow and the glue used
prevented the maker from knowing whether or not the bezel was closed.

I have only had a few items come back to me in 13 years. These were
bad solder joints or abuse, not missing stones (the one ring that
came back missing was a 2mm ruby in a Sterling six prong ready-made.
Never Again.on the ready made prongs).

If bezel setting in sterling, just make sure the bezel isn’t too
narrow and I can’t see where you will have a problem.

If you need Glue to work, why work? Why not just glue Everything and
forget metal altogether? Our modern glues have been used only for a
short period in our history. If you “need” glue, perhaps you should
rethink your design or your medium.

I also cover my work against faulty workmanship.

TL Goodwin
Lapidarian/Metalsmith
The Pacifik Image

However, if you aspire to be a professional glueologist...more
power to you! 

IMHO (pssst, that guy Neil has a lot of humble opinions, don’t he?)
the most important reason to avoid glue in the making of jewelry is
your reputation. Glue a few things too many and people might start to
think you aren’t up to speed so why should they spend their money
with you? Case in point…the person that knowingly buys an inferior
diamond, says he doesn’t care at time of purchase that its brown and
dingy he just wants to spend small but look big. Until one day he’s
on the carpet about it and who do you think gets the blame? Him? No,
the jeweler who sold it. The public looks to us for some vague,
undefined level of excellence and/or quality. Come up short and it
only hurts yourself. You may not always get credit for doing it well
but you certainly will get demerits for not. Foilbacks, marcasites,
some pearls, etc excepted.

Of course, now and then there are extenuating circumstances and you
have little or no choice. But maybe its better to keep those cases
only ‘now and then’.

John

An idealogue coming out of the woods (probably with bears and wolves
chasing me :-). I have used glue for a few impossible repair jobs
but would never ever suggest it as an acceptable technique for some
one attempting to learn how to set. If you can make a decent bearing
with glue then it’s about time to learn how to do the same in metal.
Make a bearing in wax or glue and copy and use the sample to make a
metal one. Nobody ever told me that learning this stuff was easy, but
it is really sweet when you figure it out.

If the stone is really impossible to set then change the design.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

Nancy,

I do open backed settings by making rings just the size of the
stone’s perimeter and compressing them onto the edges. My technique
is unusual, but effective on stones with rounded convex curves. It
won’t work on stones with complex curves involving concavities,
though, I’m pretty sure.

Loren

If the stone is really impossible to set then change the design. 

If it’s really, really impossible to set, you might consider a
beaded bezel or wire-wrap. Eakin’s book on beading with cabs might
help.

Lorraine

Hi Jeff,

It’s a damn shame about green stones as I love them all apart from
green sapphires. Actually green sapphires is probably about the only
green stone that shouldn’t cause problems - but I don’t think it’s a
very pretty green. Of course there are exceptions and I have seen
some attractive green sapphires. I had a gorgeous prasiolite which
sparked so much, that I was setting for a niece as a Christmas
present and I got too heavy handed with my hammer and setting tool
and caused the most enormous chip that was obvious from the front due
to its great clarity, so I had to start all over again and make a new
pendant for a different stone. It was such a pretty stone before I
did that. And almost every emerald I’ve ever set, I’ve chipped in
some way.

Green stones are just too damned scary!

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk

John

An idealogue coming out of the woods (probably with bears and wolves
chasing me :-).

No, Jeff it’s good to have standards, my issue (Always) is with some
who want to pretend that everything is always going to be 100%. You
can do that if you never do anything unusual or if nobody pushes
your limits much, but otherwise…

I’m finishing a perfect example today. A very well known metalsmith
brought me a bracelet he made for his wife, who is a very famous
metalsmith and educator. I won’t name them for privacy and the
bracelet is a surprise, but most people here know the names, I’d
wager. Jack called me and discussed this, and then said he’d make
the bracelet. He’s a forge guy - he’d be perfect in the part of
Vulcan in some movie… So, he brought me the bracelet and we ran
head on into that word many can’t deal with - constraints.

It’s an 18kt. gold bangle, 3/4"/20mm across, shaped like low-dome
wire but forged out of a sheet, and there’s 25 diamonds to set.
Well, he had drilled it too large and too soon, and the metal was
maybe 18 gauge or so, but it’s too thin to set 2mm diamonds into.
Yes, they can be set, but they’ll start popping out the next day.
So, bezels are soldered, but the holes are already too big and some
are ovals… Upping the stone size is not an option because every
point costs him $200 - 25 stones. Fat bezels are not an option
because it’s outside the design limits. This is, mind you, an $1800
piece of gold with many hours of labor added in. Wouldn’t it be a
wonderful world if everything just fell exactly into place all the
time?

So, the bottom line is this is why they pay me the big bucks — (HA
HA…) It all came together reasonably well. It’s actually below
the standards I would like to see in detail, but it looks great and
everybody will be happy - the big picture is just fine. Constraints.
These are the parameters, you can’t change them, deal with it. Not
setting the stone or changing the design is not an option - this is
the job to be done. That doesn’t mean that glue is good to use, but
idealism needs to stay in the classroom, too.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com

Helen,

Green stones are just too damned scary! 

Most of my setting experience has been with high end stuff in 14k
-18k (green stone = emerald) Usually a case of setting it or getting
an early retirement before lunch. Bust too many and the retirement
was at the end of the day :-). Not a nice work environment, but I did
learn a lot when it was a case of “damn the torpedoes and full speed
ahead”, hammer and all.

I probably did more $ damage to small diamonds (dreaded squeak when
the girdles touch in a tight cluster settting) than emeralds or other
delicate stones but I still really hate those green ones.

Still any setting really isn’t that complex, extra skills needed,
but the main critical aspects are absolute precision and no mistakes.

Jeff
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

Nancy, nothing like setting yourself a challenge! “the stone is
freeform, you have no flat surface on the stone to work with, and
would like not to have a sheet silver back” Hopefully, it is not a
very small stone as well! I too am a rank amateur compared to most of
the great people who post on Orchid, I too love freeform. well, let’s
call them character stones, so I’ll chip in with my two cents worth.
Without seeing the stone, it’s hard to be really helpful - but I’ll
try.

Step one is to work out the diameter so you can make a bezel that
will fit tight. Stick the stone to a bit of plasticine to hold it
steady. Wrap a strip of paper round it and mark the overlap. This is
the length of bezel you need. Make it a tad - say.1 or.2mm small, it
will stretch if necessary. Thickness say.5 or.6mm (sorry, not sure
about American gauge measurements!)

Now the depth - the bezel needs to be tall enough to bend around
both edges and hold firm. Err on the too high side, you can remove a
little metal here and there to conform to the stone’s curves later
on. Now solder the bezel and clean up the inside of the solder seam.

Fit it around the stone, with the solder seam furthest from where
you will attach your bail. Mould it to the edges with, say, the
wooden handle of a burnisher. Check the height. If the stone is very
uneven, you may need to remove a bit of metal here and there - mark
these points very carefully with a fine tipped black marker pen.
Slide the bezel off very carefully, file off the excess material and
check. If you’re happy, solder on the jump ring to which you will
attach your bail (Remember the bezel solder seam is at the bottom).
Try not to bend it out of shape. If it’s all stretched and has become
loose, you have to saw through the solder seam, trim and solder
again.

Now, slide the bezel back onto the stone and begin the trickiest bit
of all - folding the bezel over without it slipping off or going
crooked in the wrong places! Somehow, you have to work out a way to
keep the whole contraption steady whilst you push the bezel over the
edges. first the top, (awkward, with the jump ring in place, but you
have no other option with the type of bezel setting you’ve chosen)
then the bottom, then at the equivalent of 3 and 9 o’clock, all on
the one side. Don’t attempt to close the bezel all the way around, at
this stage the objective is only to begin holding the stone in place.
Check the alignment and repeat on the other side. Use the convex side
of a curved burnisher or a bezel pusher if you have one - and be
fairly gentle so you don’t put nasty deep dents that will have to be
filed and sanded out later into the outside wall of the bezel.

Once you have the 8 ‘holding’ bits bent over, repeat the process -
either side of the top, then of the bottom, then the sides. If all is
looking good and the stone is holding firm, you can now begin rubbing
the bezel over completely. Hopefully, you will finish up with a
bezel, perhaps wider in some places than others, that follows the
freeform contours of the stone and still holds it in place firmly. At
worst. you have a mangled bit of fine silver with a sterling jump
ring attached that can go into your ever growing stash of stuff to be
melted down one day - and some valuable experience about things that
work and things that don’t!

I agree with others’ comments on the bezel of your turquoise in the
image you posted - the bezel looks a little high, obscuring more of
the stone than necessary and making it hard to fold the last bit of
bezel right over so there are no gaps. I was taught to drill a hole
in the back of my first bezels so I could push the stone out and file
the bezel lower it my original measurements weren’t quite right! I
was also shown that if you carefully cover the stone with masking
tape which you trim right to the edge of the bezel with a scalpel,
you can use a fine - #6 cut barrette (safe edge) file and then 600
grit sandpaper to neaten up the edges. The final touch is that lovely
trick of gently angling a point burnisher over the stone and running
it around the inside edge of the bezel.

Hope this has helped, I have followed this post with great interest
and learned a great deal.

By the way. it just occurred to me that one way around this problem
might be to cast a mould of the bezel? Any comments, anyone?

Jane Walker

What we have is a student setting her fourth stone in a tricky way 

This gave me a quite a bit of courage today as I finally was able to
go grab some torch-time. I had measured and measured and filed and
sanded and fit and filed and fit some more - and when soldered, the
bezel fit beautifully tight. I knew it would stretch some when I
worked on setting the stone, but all in all, it went better than I
expected! The ring halves I incorporated for ‘hangers’ are a bit
larger than I wanted, but not so much so that I wanted to redo them.
:wink:

In the end, the stone ‘wobbled’ a tiny bit, so I did use a tiny bit
of glue to stabilize it. I don’t think it would have just fallen out,
but if the assembly were dropped or something, it may well have
jarred out with enough force. I know there are gaps in my bezel
seating around the stone (grrrr), but honestly I’ve burnished with
all my strength (not that much, apparently!) and it seems it is as
close as I can get it. I used a square pusher, a bezel rocker and the
burnishing tool - everything I had! :slight_smile:

Your responses have been a great help to me in this project! Thank
you, everyone sooo much! I’m pleased with the outcome, for my level
of inexperience that is. :slight_smile: The photo shows it hanging on a temporary
wire.

http://www.nansaidh.us/storage/2settings.jpg

I’m sure I will look back on this one day and shake my head at the
mistakes, but today, I’m tickled with it! :slight_smile:

Kind regards and many, many thanks for all your help!
Nancy Revelle

Hi Mr. Donivan,

when you get to a place where a stone is actually unsettable by
any means mechanical, which certainly happens in the real world.

I find that statement most interesting. Could you perhaps show us
some links or pictures to a stone that mechanical setting is
impossible? I have difficulty imaging something like this, but I
certainly think this could happen sooner or later, in jewellery
manufacture. Would that be a very fractured cab or something like
that?

Hans.
http://www.meevis.com
http://hansmeevis.blogspot.com

John,

No, Jeff it's good to have standards, my issue (Always) is with
some who want to pretend that everything is always going to be
100%. You can do that if you never do anything unusual or if nobody
pushes your limits much, but otherwise.. 

I think we both agree. It’s just that the kids have to be taught the
proper practice. Soon enough they will figure out non standard
techniques to survive on their own.

As I admitted I have uses glue when needed (and there was no other
choice) but I’m not proud of it. Clients choice between a $25 glue
job and a $750 re creation of their ring done properly. Repairs can
be so much fun :slight_smile:

I aim for 90%+ of my best for any job or quote. Any more% and I
really need a blank cheque and that is not going to be cheap nor
close to any semblance of reasonable.

Jeff

Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

Using a stone setter to roll the bezel over at several points around
the stone will help you keep things even. That way the stone is held
appropriately before you drag out the burnisher. (And if you get it
wrong with the stone setter there’s less to undo.)

Still, it’s a finicky bit.
RC

I have a problem with tight fitting bezels. You may chip the stone
because you have just put the pressure on the girdle just fitting the
thing into the bezel. And, now when you fold the bezel over you will
increase the stress on the girdle because the girdle has essentially
become the fulcrum, the bezel wall wants to bend at the point where
it hits the girdle. The other thing is if the tight initial fit keeps
the stone from moving, after you set the stone you may get a false
sense of security because you cannot see the progression from loose
to tight. So, is it ‘set’ or is it jammed?

I have more success with a slightly loose fit. This does mean you
have to fold the bezel in very evenly, 12 oclock, 6 oclock etc. so
the stone stays centered within the bezel. And when it’s set you know
it’s set.

I don’t like to burnish a bezel in, causes too much stretch along the
length of the strip. When I do use a burnisher its in a different
way, nestle the inside curve against the bezel and make a motion
like a bottle opener, brings the bezel in smoothly with minimal
stretch and it bends from top edge down which helps insure the edge
makes good contact with the crown. Similar to a stone pusher or bezel
rocker, the motion is ‘in’ not ‘along’. Ever burnish a bezel only to
find you have one little ripple at the end that just won’t
cooperate? That’s from a circumferential motion rather than a radial
motion. Thinner bezel material will exacerbate the problem.

I find that statement most interesting. Could you perhaps show us
some links or pictures to a stone that mechanical setting is
impossible? I have difficulty imaging something like this, but I
certainly think this could happen sooner or later, in jewellery
manufacture. 

Simple enough:

In the end, the stone 'wobbled' a tiny bit, so I did use a tiny
bit of glue to stabilize it. I don't think it would have just
fallen out, but if the assembly were dropped or something, it may
well have jarred out with enough force. I know there are gaps in my
bezel seating around the stone (grrrr), but honestly I've burnished
with all my strength (not that much, apparently!) and it seems it
is as close as I can get it. I used a square pusher, a bezel rocker
and the burnishing tool - everything I had! :) 

Since it’s her job, and her stone… I could set it easily, but
that means nothing… A guy brought me a beach rock to make into a
pendant, which by my definition of setting was unsettable - I don’t
consider a wire cage to be a “setting” in the true sense. Setting is
pinching a stone between two bearing surfaces, and there are many
rocks and stones with which that can’t be done. Laser rods aren’t
impossible, but difficult to do well. Many teeth and claws, anything
tall and straight sided or nearly so - the list goes on…Many
things could be set with 30 hours of effort to make some custom
bedding, but the $100 budget makes them effectively unsettable,
requiring other means. Understand the difference between setting and
some form of mounting. Setting is an upper bearing and a lower
bearing holding the stone in between, like pinching your fingers
onto it. Making a cup and gluing a bear claw into it (commonly done
in the past) is some form of mounting, but it’s not setting.

Hi Neil,

The other thing is if the tight initial fit keeps the stone from
moving, after you set the stone you may get a false sense of
security because you cannot see the progression from loose to
tight. So, is it 'set' or is it jammed? 

I know exactly what you mean and this is something I’ve wondered
about too. When fitting a stone into a bezel where the fit is tight,
when you start moving the bezel onto the stone, some of those forces
are going to want to push down onto/into the stone where there is
already no room for movement and as such there is a high risk of
fracturing/ chipping the stone. It seems to me to be a bit of a
compromise, because it’s true that it is easier in some ways to set a
stone that’s tight in its bezel, because when you apply forces with
your setting tool and hammer, the tight stone is not going to jump
about in its bezel and go out of alignment, whereas if it’s looser in
the bezel, it can jump out of position and you either end up having
to reposition it constantly, or if you don’t notice it, you can end
up with a stone that’s not straight, where you can see the table of
the stone sloping when viewed from the side.

I set a pendant and earring set and wore it to an occasion, then the
next time I wore it, I noticed that the main pear shaped stone in
the pendant was not set at all, but rather jammed as you say. I must
have set it in bad light and not noticed at the time, but the bezel
wasn’t pushed down onto the stone at all so I had to redo it. I watch
out for that now of course, but it can be a problem.

What is the best compromise? To have a snug fit where it is all too
easy to either chip the stone or not have it set properly - or to
have a slightly looser stone that drives you to distraction whilst
setting because it keeps jumping out of alignment?

Helen
UK
http://www.hillsgems.co.uk
http://www.helensgems.etsy.com