So you know. Where can I send scrap silver. You know to sell. Rio Grande used to take it. A long time ago. I used to have one of those super duper we love you accounts because I spent a lot of money with them. Then I didn’t and I was the scum of the earth. I don’t buy much from them anymore if I can help it. It was a great company back in the day. They would even send you this little kit to send it back. Sigh. Anyway, I make some wire if I have to. Don’t make sheet because it is always bubbly. Can’t make anything with what I have because I am really lazy and it is a mix of standard sterling, argentium and fine. Making wire or sheet is fun. It is not exactly a cost effective endeavor. By the time you have cast the ingots, beat around it a bit (or dear lord lets not get into that discussion) ran it through the mill and pulled it through a draw plate … you have wonderful wire you can feel proud of. It only took 4 hours. Anyway, ideas on where to send small silver lots … 10-15 troy oz mixed.
I send my scrap to Hoover and Strong. They take whatever I send them and in whatever form it is in and, in about 2 weeks, send me a check. Since I recycle a lot now, my scrap may just be chips and snips of silver or gold separated, sweeps from my bench, grinding swarf from my lapdiary grinding bench where I also shape silver and gold and, finally, all the grinding and polishing duff from my polishing machine and grinding bench. They take it all, others don’t. I recently sent in a small collection of the above and received a check for $1700+. What surprised me most was the amout of gold in my polishing duff as I don’t make that much gold jewelry. They do require that you complete a chain of custody form and, possibly, have an account. I do, so that hurdle has never come up. Others may do the same, but I have had a Hoover and Strong account since the mid 70s and use them when I can. Try Elemental. I have an account there too, but there are some forms of scrap that they won’t take. You also need to consider whether or not you want a check, metal or credit. there may be a tax advantage to one over the other. This is a good time to scrap precious metal, but don’t get rid of the family jewels just to pay the utility bill. Good luck…Rob
I asked the same thing in a different thread. I retired from making jewelry due to ageing… I have 20lbs+ of raw silver ingots melted down from scrap. Also several ounces of 18k gold… I bought the silver as scrap for $2.50 to $4.00 per ounce 40 years ago… gold was bought at $300 to $400 per ounce. I bought the metals so long ago that I no longer have the reciepts to calculate my basis. If I sent my metals to a refiner for cash, I would have to pay capital gains tax with an estimated basis that can’t be proven. If I have the metal returned as fine gold and silver as investment grade bars, I will be exchanging like for like and not be liable for taxes. I would lose up to 20% in refining fees and retail exchange for investment grade bars, however I can hang on to the physical gold and silver as an investment. If I needed the cash, I could sell the bars off piecemeal to a precious metals dealer and not report it as taxable income… In my position I can afford to just sit on it… gold is at a record high, silver is lagging but tends to jump in price after sitting at the current price for a few years… the cost of renting a safety deposit box at the bank is cost prohibitive… hiding the stash isn’t…
so far as refiners are concerned, I think that Elemental will fit my needs.
Thanks Rob! I had never heard of Elemental!
jsfandskh oh, thank you for such a thoughtful reply. I don’t have enough of scrap to worry much about the capital gains, but I did struggle mightily when I was in business trying to figure out my production costs. I had an accountant that insisted I account for the real acquisition costs of the metal and stones. I tried for a while. How the heck do you do that. I tried to keep metal in lots and weight each and somehow to estimate scrap costs. Aside from this I had rough (cut my own stones) I had bought years ago for next to nothing which were worth a lot when I cut them and sold them later. It was a nightmare. I ended up just eating the stone cost which was minimal and judging metals at current spot and not trying to deal with scrap. It was maddening. Be like my father (or don’t) he hide 100k worth of metals in the yard. Never told anyone where they were because he knew. By the time he passed he could not find his glasses. I think we found “most” of them. Sigh.
Elemetal, not elemental… easier to find. judy
thanks, I stand corrected!
having different batches of scrap acquired at different times and at different prices, mixed together and melted down for rolling makes for a heck of a time keeping records. One would have to weight each batch of scrap at the price it was bought at, keep track of how much of each batch was mixed in to maintain the basis… an exercise in insanity… in calculating value added by your own labor, the value added is equal to the final selling price less the cost of material inputs…your own labor costs in cutting rough, then making a piece of jewelry goes towards your final price. Valuing your labor depends on your skill level and should match local prevailing rates. For each piece, your time spent at each step- cutting the stone, fabricating or casting the setting, setting the stone, time spent polishing and finishing should be recorded and kept for income tax purposes…
This kind of record keeping is insanely complicated for a home studio jewerly artist. However, an accountant will demand that you do so, so as to maintain compliance with the IRS codes.
With my stash of precious metals and unset gemstones, I intend to trade like for like… having investment grade bars from a refinery will reset my basis. If I hold on to the bars as an investment, selling them for cash, one bar at a time on a couple of times a year basis, I still should report capital gains to the IRS… selling them for cash and NOT reporting the proceeds is tax evasion. But who cares at that point?..No one is going to report me… I don’t recommend this as it is tax evasion, but again who cares?
I think it is Elemetal, not Elemental.
you’re right!
And with the shining example of your fearless leader getting away with it - who indeed cares??
indeed!, who cares!!!..
I don’t need the cash now or in the foreseeable future. It’s a matter of holding on to it for the long run as a long term investor. The total amount less fees is not very much… I estimate 20K at most at today’s value… refinining and retail sales fees will consume about 20% of any sale, small or large… I have to hold on until I can regain any losses from retail sales. I should also mention that the silver and gold were bought 30 - 40 years ago… The cumulative inflation rate since 1980 has been 70%…buying silver scrap for $4.00 ounce and refining it to fine siver only breaks even…The jewelry that I made is worth at least as much… total investment is estimated at 40K … both silver and gold tend to sit at nearly the same price for long periods of time, then jump in value over a short period of time…
our fearless leader(s) have cause the price of gold to double over the past 5 years…Our current fearless leader drove the price of gold to new highs… More inflation to come.
The cost of imported cut stones, precious metals, tools and other jewerly supplies will rise is price… consumer resistance could impact our industry. This has little to do with our technical discussions but is the new context that all who actively produce and sell jewerly will have to work within.
garfield refining. they send you a check it’s super easy.
I second garfield. i’ve used Hoover and Strong forever, but they take a really long time. Garfield is fast and they take sweeps too.
I want to exchange it for physical gold and silver investment grade bars… That way I can reset my basis without tax consequences. Also hold on to them until the price is even higher and sell them off one by one over a long period of time without having to report to the IRS. Will Garfield do that?
For those of you worried about refining generating income, ask your refiner if they report transactions to the IRS. Not all do that, I’m told you are just changing form of something you already owned. judyh
If you take payment in cash, the transaction is reportable since the refiner’s income is dependent on the fees and commission. The seller is responsible for Form 1099B - capital gains… Trading like for like (like kind exchange, most commonly used for real estate) is not reportable.by the recipient. The refining fees and commission for a like-kind exchange in precious metals are also part of the refiner’s income…but not necessarily for the recipient who will pay the fees and commissions. Precious metals are considered by the IRS both as collectibles and cash equivalents. Form 8300 is filled out by the seller (in this case the refiner) if over $10,000 per year and reported to the IRS, including the identity of the buyer. Long term capital gains are taxed at a higher rate than other assets, to a maximum of 28% depending on your income bracket…same goes for art work and other collectibles. Refiners require an EIN number. I was able to recover and correct mine when the original certificate had my name spelled wrong (that took a lot of time and effort!) My intent is to have all of the silver and gold that I have and have them refined into investment grade metal bars with the refiner’s hallmark…the basis would be reset to the spot price of the metals at the time of refining less comissions and fees…I have no intent to sell the refined bars within a year (short term capital gain, taxed as ordinary income)…nor do I have intent to sell the entire lot at once… I would be best served to continue to hold them as is. Who knows what the inflation rate will be over the next ten years?
the rules for a self employed jeweler are insanely complex. Your own labor adds value to the raw materials, must be priced in according to skill level comparable to similar jewelers in your locality. Any profit made is less material cost and your labor cost. Time to produce a single piece has to be comparable to local artisans and jewelers. Time and skill has to be documented for each piece made. Unless you are a commercial operation it’s not worth it!!! I was only a home hobbyiest… Trying to follow the rules is impossible!!!
see my response as above.