I was going to add the same comment about the “puff of smoke”.
My first instructor told us we had to remove Turquoise from jewelry!
It would burn up…so I had a bad ring from somewhere and decided to
try heating it…sure enough a puff of smoke and no pretty stone
left. Will always remember that and never deviate from removing
Turquoise from the items. Yes, the glue does present a problem!
Orchid is a wonderful place to express!
Rose Marie Christison
Turquoise? Don’t talk to me about turquoise…
Forty years or so ago it was, generally, a hard (5-6 Moh’s) stone
that responded well to the goldsmiths attentions. These days the
majority of the material available has been treated with everything
from waxes to plastic hardeners.
I’ve seen stones bleached by the sun, scorched with a cigarette,
broken by being sat on, eroded by a nail file, staining a wedding
dress etc.
I now test all the material I come across and a considerable
percentage is dyed and treated.
If I work with this stuff I treat it the same way that I would
perspex or polymer clay.
you cannot get enough heat on the shank to solder when it's in water
I solder ring sizings with stones that heat will damage frequently.
Torch can melt 350 grams of silver for casting. It takes about 5 or
10 seconds to solder a joint and if you do take to long, you have to
reshank as the shank gets melted even while the stone does not get
damaged as it is protected by water. I put the torch on the joint
for a few seconds, remove and see if it flowed, if not, a little heat
longer, if not, a little longer. When the solder flows, I cannot see
it because the flame is so large and hot. The torch has a very large
rose bud tip. Someone said they do as I do, tension the solder in
the joint, and use more solder than you usually would. I have to use
a third hand for adding stock to a ring shank, get one side, then do
the other. It is hard to do, but just a procedure that is
repeatable. It takes a lot of concentration to do this. I have one
employee that I showed how to do solder like this, and she has been
successful using this technique. The price of the torch would not
make it economical for some people to invest in for occasional use.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
Thanks very much to everyone for their responses.
My wife bought this years ago from a street vendor in Morroco and
had it resized which appeared to have been done with electrical type
solder and soldering iron. It was that seam that had cracked and
needed fixing. It has no real monetary value, but a lot of
sentimental value.
I went with the ‘remove the stone’ route, based on the emphatic
responses here and it was a little bit of a journey.
Lifting the bezel with an x-acto knife proved much easier than I
every expected, but it quickly became clear that the stone was also
held in place by other means. However, lifting the bezel had revealed
the soldering seam and it proved it easy to break and open up the
bezel enough to get underneath it and pry out the stone. (Which
appear to have had a previous life as a bead, sawed in half and then
used as a stone.). The glue/packing material appeared to be some kind
of completely vulcanized rubber, which had turned very hard and it
took me a good half hour with a bur to clean it out.
After that, it was relatively simple to re-straighten and re-solder
the bezel, solder the ring shank, polish, set the stone and hand it
back to my now very happy wife. Polishing the stone with Zam also
gave a fair bit of luster it didn’t have before.
One last question,
Someone mentioned that sawdust/cardboard was often used
underneath…why is that? Just a short cut?
Thanks for all the help!
Jakob
Silver is a wonderful heat conductor, one of the best, so the water will drain away the heat at a prodigious rate.
This actual job has been covered, I think. I’m with Don in SoFl -
take it out. I don’t use an Exacto, I use a bench blade (dull pocket
knife), which is more stout. Crack the seam and then once around and
it will fall out.
The larger topic soldering with a heat shield is useful, though.
Peter is right in the quote above, sort of. Silver is THE most
conductive metal, second only to carbon. Looking it up, quickly -
it’s in k (W/m K) but it’s the ratio of the numbers that matters,
here.
Graphite is 1950 (k (W/m K), silver is 429, gold (24k, I guess) is
317. Stainless steel is 14 and concrete is .05-1.50. Even aluminum is
only 237. That means that silver conducts heat almost twice as fast
as aluminum, and 3000% faster that stainless. That’s a lot.
Somebody else mentioned using wet sand or something. We use spent
investment, which we have, and wet it. In a melting dish, which is
cheap. It holds both the piece and the water. I weld platinum rings
with the diamonds buried in it, every day.
But the bigger the silver ring, the more it becomes a monumental
battle against the cooling effects of the water, and eventually it
just becomes practically impossible - the torch/flame gets so big
it’s just not practical.
I’m completely capable of doing this job with the stone buried in
wet sand, but I wouldn’t. I’d remove the stone and the whole
headache just goes Poof!!
Someone mentioned that sawdust/cardboard was often used underneath...why is that? Just a short cut?
possibly to ‘raise’ the stone to make it look larger[taller] and/or
to act as a buffer… fragile stone against hard metal…
I have done such repairs in the past with the stone in place, a
bloody big O/A welding torch required. I’m older now and not quite
as quick as I used to be. Stone comes out or the job goes to someone
else.
jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand
Someone mentioned that sawdust/cardboard was often used underneath...why is that? Just a short cut?
Two reasons were given by Navajo smiths I knew. The sawdust cushions
the stone a bit from breakage by hard knocks and it also adds a
little “springiness” to tension it against the bezel. It also helps
prevent stone breakage from unevenness in bezel solder joints.
Rick Martin
Jakob -
Congratulations on your sucessful repair! It can be so instructive (&
confidence-building) to work on your own jewelry.
Sawdust is sometimes used as a cushion for fragile or thin stones,
and to help level a stone that has an uneven bottom to it. It’s not
only lightweight, but doesn’t require grinding out if/when you make
a repair. However, it can break down over time, absorb moisture &
provide a place for mold to grow.
best regards,
Kelley Dragon
Padding with sawdust/cardboard will lift a stone in a deep bezel, so
it makes the stone look bigger when set…the padding might also act
as a shock absorber to absorb some of the knocks the stone might
receive in use…it’s mainly to pad out the bezel though.
Steve Holden
www.platayflores.com
Thanks for your experience Rose Marie. A comment regarding the glue
causing a problem…I have found that about 90% of the glues out
there quickly break down even with minor heat. I don’t suggest one
try this on a really good piece of jewelry, but try warming (I said
warming…like in use an alcohol lamp or a Bic lighter) and see if
it causes the glue to release whatever it is holding. We do this a
lot in repair work such as to release a broken post from a pearl one
only has to touch a hot tweezer (or some other hot piece of metal) to
the end of the post and then just pull it out. When faceting, many
use super glue to hold the stone on the dop. Heating the dop even
just a little bit and it releases quickly. I caution again - don’t be
heavy handed with the heat but try it out so see if it works for you.
Cheers from Don in SOFL.
Someone mentioned that sawdust/cardboard was often used underneath...why is that? Just a short cut?
It is used to lift the stone to make it look thicker, or to make up
for its not being flat on the bottom, or perhaps to give the setting
a little bit of bounce back when you tighten the bezel (I heard that
somewhere). I would not recommend it on new work.
M’lou
Actually, I would recommend it on new work, if you want to attain a
specific (old work) look. Raising a stone is meant to present the
stone more clearly, especially if you are trying to get it up away
from other embellishments such as design balls, leaves, feathers,
etc. Secondly, it does provide a cushion for the more delicate
turquoise. By pushing down as you close the bezel, then letting go,
the stone comes up against the bezel and remains there. It is a way
used by native makers to ease the problem of closing a bezel onto the
relatively soft and easily scratched turquoise. So there is both a
technical and design function to filler.
What to use? Well, I never liked the sawdust but that is what often
was all they had. It tends to break down over time though and then
the stone becomes lose. Some people today use cut up credit cards
(sign of the time??) or other plastic items. The problem is they do
not cushion the stone though they do raise it up. I have learned over
the years to use the non-scratching 3M plastic pot scrubbers. The
give a nice cushion (use more than one layer if necessary) and they
will not break down (not in our lifetimes at least).
So you see there is good reason why the native makers used this
material and it served a very good purpose. I love “Indian” jewelry
and everything I make in it is cushioned…but I use the scrubbers!
Cheers from Don in SOFL.
for the purpose of removing bezel set stones… Make a broad flat
"spoon" from a junk stainless steel fork tine, thin/sharpen the edge
with a curve, set into a graver handle or chunk of dowel. gently rock
it side to side pressing lightly between the stone and bezel. Zam is
supposed to polish turquoise if you do scuff the stone. (use a hard
felt buff) On Turquoise and other soft stones its still harder than
the stone but agate and such the stainless is softer than the stone.
Mark
Hello Jakob,
The sawdust is used as a bed to level the stone and raise it up a
bit in the mounting. Pretty common in Southwestern/native American
pieces. I’m not fond of using it because unless the sawdust is
perfectly sealed by the bezel, it deteriorates and then the stone
becomes loose.
Glad you were successful with your repair!
Judy in Kansas, where the (hopfully!!) last snow of the winter is
melting off. Students are excited about the basketball team going to
the Sweet 16 later this week…heck. We’re ALL excited! Go 'Cats!!
Just for gee whiz the Native American lady that taught
me silversmithing used felt from old hats for padding, a tradition I
continue.
A nice thing about using felt is that it does not degrade quickly
and can be hammered and made thinner if necessary and it provides a
good pad. I have recently been trying pool table felt since I had
some available, works quite well.
Go Cats!! I’m most impressed by Mr. Pullen and Mr. Clemente Jim in KC
I now test all the material I come across and a considerable percentage is dyed and treated.
Test it how?
I just assume it is all dyed & stabilized (and tell my customers
that), but it would be great to be sure. Without destroying the
turquoise, of course.
Noel
Another jeweler once told me she puts all turquoise she buys into
acetone overnight. Individually, of course. If it’s blue in the
morning, it’s dyed. It it’s not, it’s natural. No harm, no foul and
she can honestly tell the customer if it’s been treated. Now heat
treating or resin stabilized can’t always be detected but to my
mind, that’s not as important as knowing if it’s been dyed or not.
Michele
MikiCat Designs
I use a q-tip and various solvents to test for dye and plastic
reinforcement. I apply acids to an inconspicuous part, look
carefully with a loop (especially at the holes if it’s a bead or
pierced.)
Consult a good gemology text?
Tony Konrath
I just assume it is all dyed & stabilized (and tell my customers that), but it would be great to be sure. Without destroying the turquoise, of course.
You need high magnification. Turquoise is a conglomerate. In
untreated, natural turquoise the color is the sum of all the tiny
crystals comprising the gemstone. If turquoise is dyed, or
stabilized, or any combination of the above, the treatment does not
affect the crystals, but the interstices between them. Such
turquoise, under high magnification, would look like the color is
between the crystals, when in natural untreated, the color is the
crystals themselves.
Leonid Surpin