Turkish flat braid cable

[alberic]

Hi Guys,

Just because it floated to the top of what passes for my mind: does anybody out there know how to make (or know in what book it is explained) how to make that flat herringbone looking wire braid that you see in a lot of Turkish work? Looks like a flat strap of flexible metal. You can't really see the wires from beyond 5 feet.

I do actually have a sample of a cut end of a piece of it. I picked it up with the idea in mind to reverse engineer it, but haven't had the time. At this point, asking is probably the more sensible thing.

It can't be too hard, because apparently a lot of the real stuff comes from village women working out in the boonies, with not much in the way of fancy tools. (Not *ANY* in the way of fancy tools, most probably.)

Lest someone think I'm disparaging the village women, I'm most emphatically not. At one point in my travels, I ended up in a rug-making school in Cappadocia. There was a woman there sitting on the floor knotting one of the silk '900 knots-per-square-inch'prayer rugs. Dear god. I had to go hunt down someone to translate for me just to make *sure* she understood just exactly how impressed I was with the detail and patience she was putting into it. (She, much like the jeweller in the Grand Bazar who sold me the scrap end of the braid, probably thought I was nuts, but at least she knew I was *impressed* in my lunacy.) I'd never pay $5K for a small rug, but now I understand why some do. (and I'd never, never, put it on the floor if I did.) Having seen real Turkish rugs, made properly, I

understand. Still can't afford them, but I do understand why they cost as much as they do. It's entirely earned. (And if you ever get to Istanbul, you've got to do the whole 'buy a rug' song and dance at least once. It's almost a ritual floorshow. And a great source of tea. Just watch out for the Rakka.)

Regards,
Brian

[eileenfloron]

Hi Brian,

I have been investigating the same thing (refer to attached pic) for a while. What I deduced doing a sketch for myself is that it is basically a "chainlink" structure like that used in fencing.

The twill span is about 5 wires or threads. The wires are formed in a V that drops 5 wires, catches and the goes back up. Eventually, there are interlocking diamond shapes, with both the front and back faces of the belt /band identical. It's really quite elegant. I haven't thought about how to actually warp the loom of sorts that would be needed, but that is the structure.

My education was textiles. This woven belt is both a fascinating & elegant functional design.




Hope this helps.
Eileen

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[Elliot_Nesterman]

These are assembled from several lengths of plain loop-in-loop chain fixed to each other side by side.

First you make as many loop-in-loop chains as necessary to make up the desired width. Then, placing the chains side by side so that the loops line up, a long loop is passed through each aligned transverse opening and interlocked with the next transverse loop.

If, for instance, you have a flat chain that appears to be composed of 5 loop-in-loop chains, there is actually a sixth chain, the one that binds them all together.

I've attached a diagram.


Elliot Nesterman

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[sashacrow]

...does anybody out there know how to make (or know in what book
it is explained) how to make that flat herringbone looking wire
braid that you see in a lot of Turkish work?

I think I found a tutorial for making this flat braid - with threads - which you can easily translate to wire. Since I think I can't put in urls here, try a Google search on "Turks-Head Knot"

I suggest doing it as an image search as there seem to be many variations on this braid and seeing the images will lead you to the one you are looking for.

Hope this helps. Best,
Sasha

[Lorraine_J]

does anybody out there know how to make (or know in what book it
is explained) how to make that flat herringbone looking wire braid
that you see in a lot of Turkish work?

The books "Ancient Wire" and "Ancient Wire II", by Helene Jacobs, are excellent, with r4eferences to ancient artifacts. "Classical Loop-in-Loop Chains" by Jean Stark and "Silver Wire Jewelry" by Irene Petersen might also be useful.

http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/097980700X.htm http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/0979807018.htm http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/0961598484.htm http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/1579906451.htm

Do you have a pic? It might be a variation on "Viking knit" chain --- actually woven, I gather, and not just by the Vikings but Romans, Greeks, and others. They are still made today among, for example, Tibetan village woman, with no tools other than a dowel and a wooden drawplate. If loosely drawn down, it can be pressed to look flat by various means. (If tightly drawn to a narrower diameter, it resists flattening.)

- Lorraine

[alonzo_jones]

(And if you ever get to Istanbul, you've got to do the whole 'buy a
rug' song and dance at least once. It's almost a ritual floorshow.
And a great source of tea. Just watch out for the Rakka.)

Yep. I once did the Istanbul rug show thing. And, yes, I bought the rug, now on my living room floor.

I don't know what the Turkish braid looks like but one thing that comes to mind as a possible source of info is one of Hervey Garret Smith's books (don't remember which one though). In his "The Arts of the Sailor" there is a 4 strand flat braid but I'm thinking that in another of his books there is one of, maybe, 8 strands. But anyway, the basic idea can be multiplied by as many strands as you can keep up with.

alonzo

[alberic]

Hi Gang,

first two. I hadn't seen them before. I've got a copy of Stark around here somewhere.

I'm including a picture of the sample piece I've got. I got the tag end of a bit, so I could see how it unraveled, rather than buying a finished piece just to destroy it to take the chain apart.

I'm not entirely sure it's loop-&-loop. Looks to me more like it's a bunch of jump ring coils threaded through themselves and then rolled flat. Sort of like a chain-link fence. I just haven't had time to sit there with a microscope and *follow* one blinking wire all the way back through. For scale, it's sitting on my bench pin. And this is a larger one. They make them much smaller.



So, any clues?

Regards,
Brian

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[awoodsman1970]

The books "Ancient Wire"and"Ancient Wire II", by Helene Jacobs, are
excellent, with r4eferences to ancient artifacts. "Classical
Loop-in-Loop Chains" by Jean Stark and "Silver Wire Jewelry" by
Irene Petersen might also be useful.

http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/097980700X.htm
http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/0979807018.htm
http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/0961598484.htm
http://www.ganoksin.com/jewelry-books/us/product/1579906451.htm

Thanks for this info! My wife was considering getting me the Ancient Wire books, but wasn't sure if they would be of any value or not!

[Diana_Dow]

Brian,

Is this similar to Turkish flat braid cable you want? I found this video http://www.ganoksin.com/benchtube/video/973/Weaving-wire

you can also go to the Instructables website and search for the Hardware Store Bracelet. It is a braided bracelet by RaNDoMLeiGH. These may not be exactly what you want, but may be enough to give you an idea of where to start.

Good luck, Diana
P.S. I'm interested in the braid technique, as well.

[Karen_Tellefsen]

I have these books and they are very useful.

Karen

[janetb]

Here ya go guys! :-)

It's a type of silver weaving known as Trabzon (Trebizond) work and is done generally in 22kt gold. The technique has its origin in the Caucasus, where till World War I, was used to make body armor. They say it's so strong that you can use a bracelet to pull a car!

About six thousand women in Trabzon (northeastern coast of Turkey) work in their homes making this kind of weaving or braiding. These women use nothing but two hands, a pair of tweezers, a pin or needle, a tooth pick, and A SINGLE WIRE!!! It comes out flat as you make it, so it is not at all like later flattening tube-like forms or links.

There is a site with a number of exquisite silver Trabzon bracelets in silver, as well as a marvelous YouTube film showing them being made in gold. The film is in Turkish. How I wish to hear a

translation! At the end, there are very interesting pics of a workshop where this technique, among others, is being taught. See http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81r6

for an utterly amazing experience!

Enjoy!
Janet in Jerusalem

[sashacrow]

Thanks for that link, Janet. I'd never seen Trabzon before even though I've traveled to Turkey 3 times. Next time I'll look for it! Yet another Turkish craft to admire....

On the same site is a tutorial for the braid:
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81r9

Best,
Sasha

[alberic]

Thanks Janet,

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep81r6

Holy Cow.

After watching the woman weaving the silk prayer rug, I expected something agonizingly tedious, but that was a whole level beyond my expectations. I wish I could have understood the video. I *think* I understood a fair bit about what they were doing, but I'd like to be sure.

Amazing what you can do with just simple tools and infinite patience.

Thanks again,
Brian