Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Trinity rings calculation


#1

Hello,

We are making a “Trinity Ring” for a client. It will be our first.

The ring is to finish a size 8 and we are not sure what sizes to
make the individual bands.

Does anyone know how to make this calculation?

Thanks so much!
David


#2
We are making a "Trinity Ring" for a client. It will be our first. 

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cartier has a copyright on that
design… If you look at the photo on their website,

http://www.cartier.us/#/show-me/jewelry/b4088900-trinity-ring

you can clearly see the copyright notice. They’ve had that copyright
for a long time. It’s an easily recognized design, and one of their
best known signature pieces. Anyone in the jewelry industry, and a
fair portion of the jewelry aware public would recognize that as a
Cartier design. I, for one, sure wouldn’t want one of their company
lawyers happening to read an Orchid post where I was proposing to
copy that design.

So then. Do you really expect us to give you instructions on how to
steal someone elses copyrighted design? A little thought, perhaps a
pencil and paper and a calculator, maybe a caliper, etc, could
easily solve your actual question. But please. Get out the creative
juices. Don’t copy someone elses design, (not to mention one as
recognizable and well known as that.) It can only reflect poorly on
your ethics as a jeweler, and might just land you in a bunch of
costly hot legal water.

Peter Rowe


#3

Hello David,

I have made several of these 3 band rolling rings and the individual
bands run about two sizes over.

Have fun. Tom Arnold


#4
Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cartier has a copyright on that
design... If you look at the photo on their website, 

Not to pick nits, but doesn’t Cartier just have a patent on the name
for three rings connected as they are?

If I connect three rings together and call it a rolling ring or give
a no name, am I not within my rights to connect three (or more)
rings thus?

As to creativity, I often wish I could make a living with my "art"
but then I sigh and make what people order (and pay me for.)


#5
Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cartier has a copyright on that
design... If you look at the photo on their website, 

Are you sure about that Peter? My grandmother had one that belonged
to her mother in three colored golds. We are a Hungarian family
originally.


#6

Hi Peter, Wouldn’t the name “Trinity” be copyrighted ? The ring
design itself is quite old and generic.

tom arnold


#7

This style of ring is known s a Russian wedding ring and has ben
around longer than Cartier. I would suggest tht Cartier’s copyright
is more to do with their trademarks rther hn a triple hoop ring.

Nick Royall


#8

Peter,

I appreciate your effort to answer my query.

However, it seems that the impetus behind your endeavor was to vent
on someone and release some negative energy. There is really no need
to be a []…

So then. Do you really expect us to give you instructions on how
to steal someone elses copyrighted design? A little thought,
perhaps a pencil and paper and a calculator, maybe a caliper, etc,
could easily solve your actual question. But please. Get out the
creative juices. 

How very high and mighty of you.

I was under the impression that the Orchid forum was a place to get
help from your peers, not to be bashed on by them.

And please. a trinity ring as a copyright infringement??

You actually believe that Cartier created the idea of putting 3
rings together as one???

Now if I was intending to reproduce an exact copy of the Cartier
ring and include a Cartier logo then let them sue me. But for you to
imply/assume that is my intention is an insult.

Didn’t you ever learn that if you don’t have anything nice to say,
don’t say anything at all.?


#9
I appreciate your effort to answer my query. 

You’re welcome, David.

And the rest of my long and perhaps overly detailed reply, can
remain in the private email to David.

Anyone who wants more of my views on this, off list, including more
on the Cartier claim to the design, is welcome to also email me, off
list.

My goal in my post was not to be overly judgemental or high and
mighty or anything like that. Only to point out a couple issues that
seemed rather obvious to me. My goal was to help, not judge. If my
tone seemed too harsh, then I apologize for that to the list.

Peter Rowe


#10

Not to be a stick in the mud, but Cartier has a copyright on that
design… If you look at the photo on their website,

Are you sure about that Peter? My grandmother had one that
belonged to her mother in three colored golds. We are a Hungarian
family originally. 

Well, whether or not it’s enforcable or not, I don’t know. I’m not a
lawyer. But Cartier introduced that design in 1924, in Paris, I
think, (though I could be wrong on that location.) They would have
been available throughout europe, I would think, not that long
afterwards, so your grandmother might easily have had a Cartier
piece. The current ones are clearly marked with a copyright mark (you
can clearly see it on the web site photo), which confers U.S.
protection even if it’s not registered (Given the company, I rather
expect they’ve registered it) And I know I’ve worked on/repaired
some of them dating from before world war 2, which also had all the
markings, including copyright. And beyond just the legal marking,
there’s also the undenyable public and trade identification with
Cartier and that design. It’s one of their most iconic and most
recognizable signature designs, right up there with some of their
classic wristwatch designs or art deco designs…

Peter (who’s typing fingers seem to be getting a good workout with
this can of worms I seem to have opened…)


#11
Wouldn't the name "Trinity" be copyrighted ? The ring design itself
is quite old and generic. 

“Trinity” would be trademarked, not copyrighted. The design has a
copyright. Cartier introduced the tri color, three band trinity ring
in 1924. No doubt it has earlier origins, but I’d expect those
usually to be one color gold, not three. The multicolored golds are
an intrinsic part of what the Cartier design includes, not just three
interlocked bands.

Everyone seems to be assuming they’re very old and generic. But 1924
is older than most of us can recall, I’m pretty sure, and once
something is “history” rather than personal memory, people can get
easily confused as to just how old something is, or isn’t. Can
anyone show me a photo or other documentation of a non-Cartier
version of this, dated reliably to before 1924? I can’t find any such
thing in the references I have…

Peter


#12
This style of ring is known s a Russian wedding ring and has ben
around longer than Cartier. I would suggest tht Cartier's
copyright is more to do with their trademarks rther hn a triple
hoop ring. 

It’s probably true that the triple ring didn’t original with
Cartier. I think Cartier’s original (and still today) idea was to
make the three bands in three different colors of gold, or at least,
that’s what the history seems to claim. Whether the idea is wholely
original or not isn’t the point. They DO have a legally enforcable
copyright on the design. They introduced the design in 1924, and it
has become one of the most widely recognized and iconic of Cartiers
designs. U.S. copyrights, I believe, are good for 95 years (if
issued before 1978), so this one’s got another 9 years to run, I’d
guess. The copyright is on the design. The name Trinity is
trademarked, and similarly enforcable as a trademark. Though I don’t
know how trademarks and copyrights differ in terms of enforcability,
how long they last, etc. Nor do I know when they introduced the word
Trinity. Their web site suggests it was at the same time as the
ring, and part of the whole symbolic idea behind it.

I know that to some degree, U.S. copyright protection is reciprocal
with similar protection in some other countries, but I don’t know for
how long, or what the details might be. So it’s possible that
copyright protection for the design may have expired in some other
countries. But here in the U.S., not yet.

Peter Rowe


#13
Wouldn't the name "Trinity" be copyrighted ? The ring design itself
is quite old and generic. 

doesn’t the Pope (or his org) own the copyright to that name?


#14

Peter, I think the only thing that can be copyrighted about this ring
is using the Cartier logo on it. I’ve made this ring from jump rings
(called a mobius weave). Perhaps calling it a Trinity Ring would be a
copyright infringement as well, but not making it. It’s just 3 pieces
of metal, soldered or fused together to form the mobius weave which
has been around for centuries. Ask any chainmailler. I see these
rings, handmade, all over the place but they’re not exactly like
Cartier’s. The treatment or design of the outer bands would make this
an original design, whether polished, stamped, or fiddled about in
any other way. The weave, is the weave, is the weave.

David, I think what you need to know is how to determine the
diameter. For that, you’d have to take into account the thickness of
the rings you’re using. So a size 8, using 3 bands at 1mm thickness,
should be at least 2mm thicker than a size 8 to account for the
offset of the added thicknesses. You’ll also need to take into
account the width of the bands. Wider bands, as you know, should be
slightly larger.

If you want to be absolutely sure, create your three rings as “jump
rings” without soldering them closed first, and have a “fitting” with
the customer. :slight_smile: Works for Bridal gowns, why not custom rings.

Have fun. And be original in your final product.

Michele


#15

Mmm…this Cartier copyright thing is kind of interesting. They
actually invented the “Russian wedding ring”? There seem to be many
hundreds of sites on the internet selling these rings, and I dare
say that they haven’t all been made or licensed by Cartier.

What exactly have they copyrighted, Peter?


#16

Hi Guys,

I thought the Russian wedding rings were a very traditional design,
sort of like trying to copyright an artifact.

Would like some more of the history if anyone has it.

Regards Char’es A.


#17

Hi Tim,

Wouldn't the name "Trinity" be copyrighted ? The ring design itself
is quite old and generic. 

How could you copyright “Trinity”?

I think the Catholic Church, would have that one if they could.

Regards Charles A.


#18

Hi David,

I was under the impression that the Orchid forum was a place to
get help from your peers, not to be bashed on by them.> Didn't you
ever learn that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say
anything at all. 

What you have to remember about any forum on the net is that they’re
inhabited by very passionate people, if they weren’t passionate they
wouldn’t be there.

I come here to share, I come here to learn, and sometimes I get my
hackles raised also.

Sometimes our opinions differ and we get a little heated, but in the
long run it’s nice to belong to a community of like-minded people.

Regards Charles A.


#19
I think the Catholic Church, would have that one if they could. 

Not a copyright, but a trademark. To be a trademark, the word or
phrase or symbol does not need to be totally unique. It gets
trademark status as being able to distinguish one catagory of things,
such as the goods and services from one company, with that of
another. Trinity is not a new word, of course. But it’s existing
meanings are no doubt what made it symbolic and suitable as a
trademark label for the Cartier rings. Part of the whole idea of
those rings, beyond just the three colors of gold, is that each color
band has a specific meaning which is symbolizes.

Aw heck. I’m not expert on the things. just quoting sort of from
memory what I read right on the Cartier website. Go look for
yourself. They have an interesting history section on the site too…

Peter Rowe


#20

Hi Peter,

It’s actually quite difficult to search on the net for "rings"
search engines pull up all sorts of c.r.a.p.

Thus far :-

Interwoven Rings 

In France, couples traditionally wear three interlocking rings
on their right hand. These rings stand for the three Christian
virtues of hope, faith, and love. Stylistically, each ring can
vary, but many of these wedding rings include different metals
and engravings of the cardinal virtues. Several other cultures
use interwoven rings as well. In Russia, couples traditionally
wear three interlocking rings made of yellow, white, or rose
gold. These rings are called "engagement rings" but are exchanged
and worn during the ceremony. They are selected by both husband
and wife and must be paid for by the groom. 

In Greece and Turkey, exchanging of complex puzzle rings is
still a common practice. Puzzle rings were originally given to
women in order to test their monogamy. Women who could unlock the
puzzle rings supposedly had the intellect and character of a
faithful wife. Today, puzzle rings are still used, but are given
to both husband and wife. 

I will have to look more into it, maybe I’ll give some friends a
call to see if they can come up with more.

Regards Charles A.