Torch Problems

Jewelry Discussion
1

Howdy, Gang!

I am beginning to feel like those people who walk by a computer (or a piece
of machinery, or whatever) and the thing starts throwing parts at them. The
last few weeks I have had more than my share of printer & computer problems,
now it’s my new Little Torch.

It’s only 2-3 months old (purchased from Rio), and I don’t know if it’s
"jinxed" or if I just don’t know what I’m doing (a REAL possiblity). So,
please kind jeweler friends, help me one more time! By the way, the
instruction book tells you more than anyone would want to know about
cutting/welding torches, but not a word or even a sketch of a jewelers torch.

  1. The gauge measuring hose pressure on the acetylene tank doesn’t go
    completely to 0 when I close the tank and clear the line. (I had to send the
    oxygen regulator back before I used it because it wouldn’t hold pressure, so
    I have my suspicions.) Is this a problem, or just one of those things that
    happens?

  2. I cannot keep a constant flame. When I get it regulated to the size,
    shape, color, etc. that I want, many times it changes, mostly losing any
    yellow flame and ending up with strictly blue.

  3. What size tip do I need to be using fto solder silver? Same for brass and
    copper?

  4. What pressures do I need to set my regulators at for both of the tanks
    and both of the hoses?

  5. Yesterday I started getting “flash back” to the fuel adjustment valve on
    the torch handle. Makes it kind of hard to shut the valve off through all
    those flames! Something tells me this is not the appropriate way for the
    torch to be functioning!

Yes, I have flash back (is that the right term) valves on both regulators.

Well, these are all my current dilemmas. Any other hints and tips will be
graciously received!

Candy

2

Candy,

Not a torch expert… But

  1.  Call your local gas dude an discuss a valve ($1.00) that prevent

back flash(IF THAT’S WHAT YOU RELLY HAVE…YOU DIE FROM THE
EXPLOSION!!).

  1.  Get rid of the acetylene . . It's too hot for small jewelry

soldering… use propane and air… much cheaper… container for
propane cost.,… bout $10.00 on sale and $8.00 to fill… last for
ever!!!.

  1.  Don't know about the Aceyulene going to '0' ... but you must turn

the gass off in a sequance that allows the remainder to escape… 1.
off at the tank, 2. off at the valve, 3. off at the torch… as each
goes to ‘0’… If this doesn’t perform correctly… den you gots a
real problem! I would guess.

Not Much …
Do the $1.00 valve at least…

Jim

At 10:54 PM 11/8/96 -0500, you wrote:

3

In a message dated 96-11-09 02:27:17 EST, you write:

  1.  Get rid of the acetylene . . It's too hot for small jewelry

soldering… use propane and air… much cheaper… container for
propane cost.,… bout $10.00 on sale and $8.00 to fill… last for
ever!!!.

Difference of opinion. I use only acetylene. For one: I work in my house
and have my studio is the 3rd car area. Propane never dissapates — it
flows to the lowest point and stays there - waiting to explode. If your
insurance company ever finds out that there is propane in your house your
homeowners policy will be invalid. And if there is ever an explosion, you
can bet they will find out.

I use the smaller tips for my smaller jewelry stuff and also have a set up
using oxygen and acetylene for casting and stuff. I used the propane and
oxy until I found out about the above and then got it out of my house PDQ>
So far the acetylene has done everything that I need it to do.

And never, never use the torches that are totally contained in a Hand held
fashion. You can lose your hand really quickly.

My two cents worth.

Joan

4

Hi Candy,

You said (and a whole lot more):

It’s only 2-3 months old (purchased from Rio), and I don’t know if it’s

“jinxed” or if I just don’t know what I’m doing (a REAL possiblity).

Based on the comments in your msg it sounds like you bought a set of guages &
torch from RIO. There are a number of possiblities for your problems. I think
you should get them all resolved before you try lighting the torch again. Don’t
want you to blow yourself up, we need your input orn Orchid.
If I were you, I’d get someone who’s familiar with torches to have a look at
your setup. If you can’t get them to come to you, take all your goodies to a
welding shop/dealer & ask them to show you the proper way to connect, turn
on/off & adjust the regulators & torch.

Trying to correct the problem/s over the net is a little chancy, since we can’t
verify the way you understand our comments.
The consequences of a misunderstanding aren’t a pretty sight to behold.

Good luck,

Dave

5

Joan963@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 96-11-09 02:27:17 EST, you write:

  1.  Get rid of the acetylene . . It's too hot for small jewelry

soldering… use propane and air… much cheaper… container for
propane cost.,… bout $10.00 on sale and $8.00 to fill… last for
ever!!!.

Difference of opinion. I use only acetylene. For one: I work in my house
and have my studio is the 3rd car area. Propane never dissapates — it
flows to the lowest point and stays there - waiting to explode. If your
insurance company ever finds out that there is propane in your house your
homeowners policy will be invalid. And if there is ever an explosion, you
can bet they will find out.

I use the smaller tips for my smaller jewelry stuff and also have a set up
using oxygen and acetylene for casting and stuff. I used the propane and
oxy until I found out about the above and then got it out of my house PDQ>
So far the acetylene has done everything that I need it to do.

And never, never use the torches that are totally contained in a Hand held
fashion. You can lose your hand really quickly.

My two cents worth.

one one cent worth
i myself use natural gas. its clean, cheap, beautiful, insurable…
propane and acetalyneare or seem to dirty to me. this is just my opinion
so don’t take it to heart. i achieve any temperature i desire with
natural gas. melts platinum, casts wonderfuly.

6

In a message dated 96-11-09 13:09:54 EST, you write:

Thanks to everyone with input on the torch problems. I’ll take it to the
welding supply Monday for their advice. It just started the "flash back"
problem, so I hope it’s some minor, or better yet, something stupid that I am
doing. I don’t want down time not being able to use it.

<< And never, never use the torches that are totally contained in a Hand held
fashion. You can lose your hand really quickly. >>

Joan, please explain, or describe, what you are talking about here. Thanks.

Candy

7

Joan: How do you mean torches that are totally contained?

8 
  1.  Get rid of the acetylene . . It's too hot for small jewelry

soldering… use propane and air… much cheaper… container for
propane cost.,… bout $10.00 on sale and $8.00 to fill… last for
ever!!!.

I was in a mall a few years ago and the fire marshall wouldn’t allow us to
use propane. He would allow acetylene. The only real problem with acetylene
was soot. We had soot everywhere. The stuff worked fine otherwise.

E-mail: manmountaindense@knight-hub.com
WWW: http://www.knight-hub.com/manmtndense/bhh3.htm
Snail: POB 7972, McLean, VA 22106

9

The torches that I am talking about are any that have the fuel source and
lighting element in one unit that you hold in your hand to use. They have a
very large chance of explosion, everything is so close together. That is
also the reason that your DONT light your torch with a BIC lighter. The fuel
in the lighter could quickly ignite and take your hand with it. Better to
use your flint striker.

Hope that helps.

Joan

10

The ones that I have seen are black based 6" to 8" tall, and filled with
propane lighter fluid that comes in a big white can with a red top. The
striker is silver with a black button that you push once after you have
turned on the gas. BOOM!!! All so conveniently held in your hand. No
hoses, no tubes — I understand that BIC lighters have come up with a new
design just for this reason. But I may be wrong, but my hands are worth
more to me that a cheap way to fuse metal. I will vote for the aceletyne–
Natural gas is great from the previous post, but not available in my area.

Joan

11

VEERRRY Interesting “said a la Laugh-In”.

I also use a Little Torch. Bought it configured for Oxy/Acet. I feel it’s
really too hot, and there’s the supposed soot issue. Nevertheless, I have
made several attempts to convert over to propane. I just can’t get a good
seal between my BBQ tank and the regulator.

Some people suggested Teflon tape to seal the threads, but others pointed out
that the threads aren’t supposed to seal, but provide mechanical force for the
seal at the male/female thingie.

Exchanged my adapter; exchanged propane tanks; no joy. Considered taking a
separating disk to the “male” part, and “circumcising” a groove for a rubber O
ring, but am coping with the acetylene for now.

Not willing to take any risks with my safety,

Dave Sebaste
Sebaste Studio
Charlotte, NCFrom: owner-orchid@proteus.imagiware.com on behalf of Joan963@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 1996 12:03 PM
To: orchid@ganoksin.com
Subject: Re: Torch Problems

In a message dated 96-11-09 02:27:17 EST, you write:

  1.  Get rid of the acetylene . . It's too hot for small jewelry

soldering… use propane and air… much cheaper… container for
propane cost.,… bout $10.00 on sale and $8.00 to fill… last for
ever!!!.

Difference of opinion. I use only acetylene. For one: I work in my house
and have my studio is the 3rd car area. Propane never dissapates — it
flows to the lowest point and stays there - waiting to explode. If your
insurance company ever finds out that there is propane in your house your
homeowners policy will be invalid. And if there is ever an explosion, you
can bet they will find out.

I use the smaller tips for my smaller jewelry stuff and also have a set up
using oxygen and acetylene for casting and stuff. I used the propane and
oxy until I found out about the above and then got it out of my house PDQ>
So far the acetylene has done everything that I need it to do.

And never, never use the torches that are totally contained in a Hand held
fashion. You can lose your hand really quickly.

My two cents worth.

Joan

procedures

12

VEERRRY Interesting “said a la Laugh-In”.

I also use a Little Torch. Bought it configured for Oxy/Acet. I feel it’s
really too hot, and there’s the supposed soot issue. Nevertheless, I have
made several attempts to convert over to propane. I just can’t get a good
seal between my BBQ tank and the regulator.

Some people suggested Teflon tape to seal the threads, but others pointed out
that the threads aren’t supposed to seal, but provide mechanical force for the
seal at the male/female thingie.

Exchanged my adapter; exchanged propane tanks; no joy. Considered taking a
separating disk to the “male” part, and “circumcising” a groove for a rubber O
ring, but am coping with the acetylene for now.

Not willing to take any risks with my safety,

Dave Sebaste
Sebaste Studio
Charlotte, NC

Dave,

Contact Rio or your jewelry supplier or Little Torch and ask for a Propane
Regulator. I think that you will find out that the regulators and fittings
are very different for the acet. vs propane, especially the threaded
connectors.

John

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of We are given eyes to see and ears to hear,
MidLife Crisis Enterprises but what is required of the mind?
PO BX 44
Philo, CA 95466
707-895-2635(phone/fax)
@John_Cynthia_MidLife

13

Dave,
My is from John Cogswell, who teaches at the 42nd St. Y in New
York. A fabulous program. Under no circumstances are you suppose to use
teflon tape with any gas. … Opps., I had done the same thing, Came
right home and took it off. If the gas is leaking you need to replace the
regulator. Also, I didn’t think that propane regulators and acetyne ones
were interechangable. You have to have the one that fits your gas. I don’t
know about soot. I haven’t noticed a whole lot of it when I work. I use
straight acetlyne right out of a B-tank and different tips depending on the
job.

Joan

14

You’re right John! I forgot to mention that I bought an adapter form the
local welding house where I get my acet. and O2 refilled. I’ve gone through a
couple of them, too, trying to solve my leak problem. I don’t know that I
want to spend the money on another regulator, when theoretically, this one
should work.

That’s why I’m still using acet… I keep going back and forth about how to
solve the propane leak problem.

I appreciate the suggestion!

DaveFrom: owner-orchid@proteus.imagiware.com on behalf of John & Cynthia/ MidLife
Crisis Ent.
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 1996 7:16 PM
To: orchid@ganoksin.com
Subject: RE: Torch Problems

VEERRRY Interesting “said a la Laugh-In”.

I also use a Little Torch. Bought it configured for Oxy/Acet. I feel it’s
really too hot, and there’s the supposed soot issue. Nevertheless, I have
made several attempts to convert over to propane. I just can’t get a good
seal between my BBQ tank and the regulator.

Some people suggested Teflon tape to seal the threads, but others pointed out
that the threads aren’t supposed to seal, but provide mechanical force for
the
seal at the male/female thingie.

Exchanged my adapter; exchanged propane tanks; no joy. Considered taking a
separating disk to the “male” part, and “circumcising” a groove for a rubber
O
ring, but am coping with the acetylene for now.

Not willing to take any risks with my safety,

Dave Sebaste
Sebaste Studio
Charlotte, NC

Dave,

Contact Rio or your jewelry supplier or Little Torch and ask for a Propane
Regulator. I think that you will find out that the regulators and fittings
are very different for the acet. vs propane, especially the threaded
connectors.

John

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of We are given eyes to see and ears to hear,
MidLife Crisis Enterprises but what is required of the mind?
PO BX 44
Philo, CA 95466
707-895-2635(phone/fax)
mlce@pacific.net

procedures

15

I use acetylene and oxygen. Have had no problems with my connections but
I can surely tell you about soot. I left my torch burning after sizing
a ring. Had to make sure my solder job was ok before turning off my
torch. Had a call on the phone. Forgot my torch was on and the next
day the oxygen had all burned out and I had soot which covered my whole
house. I do my work in my basement. I’m still cleaning soot.
Bob goll

16

I use full size industrial regulators. It works with all of my torches and
the fitting for large acetylene fits my propane tanks also. I have never
had one bit of trouble with these regulators in over 10 years. If I were
buying new regulators I would certainly look into buying two stage
regulators as these would eliminate minute fluctuations in the gas pressure
which can make using small torches frustrating

Remember that oxygen tank pressures are over 2000 lbs. when full. I would
not recommend cheap regulators as your life could depend on it, I have
heard of some of them literally blowing out. Also, just in case someone
does not know, NEVER, NEVER use oil on any fittings associated with oxygen.
This can cause an EXPLOSION!!!

Kenneth Gastineau
gastin@mis.net

17

I have used propane and oxy for years. there are a couple of things you
should do if you use it inside buy a 5 pound tank not a 20 pound one most
fire codes permit the use of this one indoors. The propane gauge is exactly
the same as the acetelene only the fittings on it change(you should not make
the modification buy it already made)Also it costs a bit more but use two
stage regualators they have two advantages they are more precise and safer.
Next never use anything that has an oil base material in your torch system
it can explode when contacted with oxygen. finally use flash back arrestors
they run about $30 each put them on the regulator side they are well worth
the money

At 08:57 AM 11/11/96 -0500, you wrote:

18

And never, never use the torches that are totally contained in a Hand held
fashion. You can lose your hand really quickly.

I’m not sure what this means???

Jim

At 12:03 PM 11/9/96 -0500, you wrote:

19

I have been using AC regulators for 4 years with Propane . . asked the same
question all over town…finally got my answer from a master welder… only
problem he suggesed would be that when Propane is low the pressure could
possibly allow the flame to 'BACK TOWARD THE TANK… purchased a $1.00 valve
to mount on both oxygen and Propane… $1.00

Jim

At 08:57 AM 11/11/96 -0500, you wrote:

20

Help, everyone:

Several recent posts warn against using Teflon tape with pressurized gas
tank fittings. I recently sent my big oxy tank out for pressure testing and
certification by a gas dealer. It returned approved, filled, and with a
generous amount of Teflon tape on the master cylinder valve connection (tank
to the fitting that holds the regulator). If this practice is so dangerous,
why don’t gas dealers know it? Or am I dealing with a really stupid,
dangerous person?

Rick Martin
MARTIN DESIGNS

At 01:57 PM 11/11/96 +0000, you wrote: