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Titanium and pancake dies?


#1

Now it’s my turn to ask a question about the dies I make. I’ve
punched millions of parts for many hundreds of people with them, but
I’ve never had anyone,who has me do their punchout, use Titanium.
I’ve heard about it, but never actually done it, and someone is
asking me about it now. I’ve heard that the dies can do fairly well
if the Ti is of an agreeable alloy and hardness; now I’m hoping
someone here will be able to provide more specific information
regarding this. I imagine Reactive Metals has the Ti sheet available,
but question, question, question…see… I’ve got some blanks that
need filling (^;.

Thanks
Dar
http://www.sheltech.net


#2

Hi Dar,

You can go to the ITA (International Titanium Association) web sight
for Here’s some stuff to start.

Commercially Pure (CP)
Grade #1 R8 = 70
Grade #2 R8 = 80

Most common Alloy
6AL-4V Rc = 36

Traditional pancake dies are regularly used on material less then
0.025". It is generally considered to shear well. Our old Niagara
foot shear cuts it all the time. It is set tight and will shear
paper. I do not have a reference to pancake die design but could
probably find one.

Bill

Reactive Metals Studio, Inc


#3
I've heard that the dies can do fairly well if the Ti is of an
agreeable alloy and hardness; now I'm hoping someone here will be
able to provide more specific regarding this. 

Dar, I’ve been using dies you made me for punching out ti shapes for
years. The first one broke after several hundred, I guess-- it had a
very thing section (because of my design). It is still usable, but
more trouble, so I had you make me a new one that is slightly
different. You made it very tight, so I have to open it with a dowel
and hammer each time. The actual part is very small (an earring
shaped like a bird) and just smacking it on the edge of the table
does not open it.

I use 26ga ti from Reactive, and punch it in a hydraulic press. It
works great, though it makes a disturbingly loud sproing noise when
it pops through. The shape comes out crisp and flat.

Is there something else I can tell you?

Noel


#4

My experience when punching shapes from Titanium has been that the
"hinge" of the die (the long part that is the non-cutting section
that allows you to lift the punch up from the plate of the die) can
twist very easily, even on dies that have worked fine for other
metals. I’m assuming that this is because titanium is so much harder
than steel. Perhaps the hinge needs to be made wider for titanium?

Emie Stewart


#5

I work with titanium just about everyday. If the dies can handle
steel, they will probably do fine on titanium, and titanium is
somewhat similar to steel in strength. can you buy some titanium and
test it?

Chris


#6

I have cut out tens of thousands of pieces of titanium with pancake
dies, mostly small (6mm) flowers in 0.3mm sheet. It shears very
nicely, I find it much easier than say copper for which I find I have
to cut tighter dies. I have had cutters last a few thousand cuts,
mostly depending on operator technique! The largest items about 30mm
across. So I would say no problem to do titanium.

regards,
Tim Blades


#7
I'm assuming that this is because titanium is so much harder than
steel. Perhaps the hinge needs to be made wider for titanium? 

Misconception! Titanium is not harder then steel. Some aircraft
alloys are tough and approach the hardness of some steels. Titanium
will not hold a knife edge.

Bill

Bill, Deborah, Michele & Sharon
Reactive Metals Studio, Inc


#8

The whole object of titanium is that it was developed for aviation
use. Using the V4 a6 alloy.

Avoid this if you can as its primary function is to replace
aluminium alloys, where the heat of air friction at mach plus 3 speeds
heat up the aircraft skin.

it really is too hard for our jewellry use, as well as anyone trying
to cut it with pancake dies. I dont use these, all my dies are 1/2in
thick upwards using fly presses and/or crank presses from 6 ton
upwards.

Standard Birmingham jewellery techniques.

My advice, is to only buy the most commercially pure you can find.
Its the softest and most ductile.

You might just then be able to cut it.

I doubt the practicality of pancake dies for titanium other than
15/1000 in thick material in fully annealed state.


#9

Thank you, Bill Seeley. As you say, titanium is NOT harder than
steel, but STRONGER than steel. One of the highest strength to weight
materials there is. Sorry I misspoke. I do wish Reactive Metals would
bring back the embossed titanium, though.

Emie Stewart


#10

Hi Emie,

Is there anywhere one can see what the embossed metal looks like?
designs? width? thickness etc? I have all the heavy machinery to do
so, I could do this easily, if they RM, dont, I could. Most of my
drop stamping work is to proof coin standards, so I darnt risk the
dies on titanium. Especially as the only thin sheet I have is the V4
A6 alloy. Hard like spring steel.

Ted.


#11
Thank you, Bill Seeley. As you say, titanium is NOT harder than
steel, but STRONGER than steel. 

Not stronger than steel either. Typical low carbon steel has a
tensile strength in the 30-60 ksi and pure titanium is almost
identical and when you start talking about alloy steel then it is
much stronger than even alloy titanium.

One of the highest strength to weight materials there is. 

This is what makes titanium so special it has high strength with low
density. It’s density is about half of what steels is.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#12

Ted,

Reactive Metals used to carry it. It may still be in some of their
old catalogs, or perhaps Bill Seeley could send you a photo. RM
carried it in 26 and (I think) 24 gauge.

Emie


#13

Ahhhh, I see. So glad we have some real metallurgists out there! I
still love titanium, though.

Emie Stewart