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Three color gold mokume gane


#1

i m trying to make mokume gane

i m successful 2 color yellow and rose color

but i want to make 3 color white+yellow+rose color

i tried a lot of times different temperature, but white color always
doesn’t join (doesn’t diffusion) other colors

my layers sorting generally i make yellow+white+red+white, but white
color always i have problem

rose and yellow color alloy i make copper and silver, i couldnt make
ready alloy, so i prepare myself

my white gold alloys with palladium, 14 carat % 20 palladium+ % 12
silver, i think white gold alloy harder than other colors

do you have any suggest me to make softer white gold alloy ?

white color i want little bit dark, like smoked color, or normal
white, i want to make best alloy for my mokume billet

thank you everybody who read and who answer best regards

if somebody want photo from me i can send my problems photo, i need
your email address

bosketar
Turkey


#2

Hello Bosketar,

Try using palladium for your white metal and eliminate experimenting
with alloying variations of the 14kt white you are using. you are not
getting a decent eutectic bond due to the nickel in the 14kt white
gold.Remember that the 14kt is 57% yellow gold (or less) and nickel
is the second most high weight in that alloy, so it’s interrupting
any bonding between the copper in the rose gold and copper in the
yellow as well. Make sure you start with yellow and end with yellow
in the first 17 layers of your billet.Clean it all well and leave
some tooth on each piece in your stack.

Flux them all and depending on whether or not you use solder or
pressure to bond the layers,flux the solder too- after rolling it as
thin as is possible.Also roll the entire billet through the mill
BEFORE the final fluxing and wrapping - if you wrap your billet in
any foil or just place it in (an iron smoker box that i have sealed
the air holes is what I use to contain a billet ) the kiln with
supports of firebrick or refractory material (fiberfrax is something
I also use to keep the billet off the kiln floor) or even a steel
grate so heat is more evenly distributed and can sink into the billet
over the time it takes to ramp the kiln or forge up to temperature
that is required to bond the materials without their splitting or
otherwise unevenly heating and achieving an eutectic bond throughout
the entire mass of metal.

Some people try and just flood solder between the layers of metals
this is the poorest method possible for a good end result, and if
you are having success with the 2 colours you are apparently on the
right track, so after everything is cleaned and prepared and you have
used whatever method you like to bind the billet and create a heat
sink that penetrates the layers to their core I think you will find
that palladium will give you the right colour white (the platinum
group being a bit darker and more towards gray than the nickel
"white" of white golds even in higher karats with less nickel in
them- which over time will look more yellowed anyway) and a better
result in the 3 colour combination remebering to account for the
temperature difference required by palladium.You may want to raise
the karat of the red and yellow golds to meet the palladium’s
temperature more closely as the closer all the layers are in liquidus
and solidus temperatures the better the final outcome will be.

I hope this is clear and helps you produce a better billet.

rer


#3

RER Every single bit of in your post on mokume is wrong.
I am at a loss to even try to figure out where you got all this
It is pointless to even make an attempt to correct all
the misYou certainly haven’t used the as you
are presenting here in this fashion because it will not work as
described. You also did not read his post as you suggest he use
palladium white gold when he plainly says that is what he is using.
He also is diffusion bonding so any reference to solder bonding is
pointless. So how can you offer this as advise to someone who is
struggling.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#4

hello

thank you everybody who read or answer my topic

my problem is white gold strong and doesn’t join other color, or its
break next time i didn’t make polish my layers, layer has some scar,
maybe its depend of scarf next my billet, i want to make polish all
my layers, i found new white gold with palladium formula 2 different
i will make 2 different formula, which is the best soft and nice
color for me i will make always should i paint with borax or flux
between my layers or aground to sides ? should i make polish layers ?

how many milimeter should i make my billet minimum ?
(wideness-longness)

how many hours and how many temprature should i fire my electronic
kiln (3 colors)

thank you
bosketar, turkey


#5

Hello,

i want to make polish all my layers..... 

as far as I understood your mail and please correct me if I’m wrong,
you do not have to polish your materials! The point of sanding the
metals is to create a bigger surface i.e. more contact between the
opposite metal of the second layer.

Please do yourself a favor and buy two magnificent and wel wroten
books.

One by Steve Midgett “a comprohensive study of Mokume Gane” Second
one is written by Ian Ferguson “Mokume Gane”

These two books give you a very good look on how to deal with this
Art. They descripe all the basics in a very comprohensive language
and will help you do start with this art. They will answer a very
large amount of your answers.

Mokume is not something you start with as a trial. It’s very labor
intensive work! James already descriped in one of his postings
earlier concerning this art that one billet cacosts 2000 dollars if
you’re dealing with gold and other precious metals. This amount of
meney askes for a clear view, knowledge of what you’re doing and
finances


#6

Do not use flux for diffusion bonding, it will ruin the piece. In an
electric kiln the billet needs to be surrounded by charcoal in a
closed container (stainless steel or ceramic) to keep the oxygen
away. Metal surfaces need to be very clean but do not polish, use 220
320 grit sandpaper to remove oxides and surface contamination. Clean
with a very small amount of mild detergent and water. Rinse metal
thoroughly to remove all detergent residue and dry. Size of billet
will depend on many factors. I work with billets that are 16mm x 25mm
up to 100mm x 100mm. Firing times will also vary but somewhere
between 4-12 hrs. Temperature will depend on the alloys melting
points. The 14k yellow is going to be your limiting material. Stay at
least 25 degrees below its solidus point.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts