Stuller's mounting are made in china?

Jewelry Discussion
61

Ok - here a Stuller stumper for you. since I am such a low life
form, I am not allowed to have a Stuller account. I am not rich, I
can’t afford loans, and I don’t have a rich daddy to send me to
accredited jewelry making schools. As JUST a mere hobbyist - right
now - Learning- I am not allowed to be a Stuller customer. But
noo-b/c they hide behind their reasoning that jewelers supplies are
ripe for fraudulent use and sale, they won’t sell to people likeme.

No, I am NOT going to a) spend what amounts to a full tank of gas to
get a local biz license I don’t need-and then, apply for a Federal
Tax ID that forces me to pay taxes quarterly on imaginary sales I
don’t make (I was dragged down this road before-i KNOW how it all
works if you don’t want to be audited)

Pathetic.

But I digress…

A real jeweler was nice enough to order a Stuller mounting for a
specific stone for me. She is in the biz full time, making her a
much higher life form and is of course, allowed to buy from them. So,
I get one of the mountings I ordered - the rest are on a mysterious
eternal back-order… but anyway, the packaging states it is made of
their propriety “Continuum” silver. It clearly says in the packaging
once you get the item - but nooooowhere on their promotional and
sakes materials (unless it’s we written in Chinese somewhere. hab
jab)- does it say -as dues in the package - that heating will
essentially ruin the setting!!! WHATe? How the HELL am I supposed
to create my piece with this setting - epoxye? Gorilla Glue? It said
to “see the website” for more info. So I look there. Nope - no
further info just that it “may” need to be heated to 800deg to
reharden it. WHATe How? In a kiln that I don’t owne? In a roasting pan
in the oven (that only goes to 550deg)e? This is insane. The
experienced jewelers I know laughed at me b/c I bought this stuff…
they have no input and THEY have degrees from fancy, accredited
jewelry school too!! (Unless us low life forms aren’t allowed to see
the webpage in how to work with Continuum…)

Ummm-what now?

Can anyone please shed some COGENT light onto this for me? If
Stuller ever gets around to sending the remaining shipment of silver
settings I ordered amonth ago, I imagine they are all going to be in
this weird alloy.

Could someone PLEASE tell me - a relatively new jeweler - how to
solder thisStuller setting into my lowly 925 8g Rio silver ring
wiree?

Lovely settings Stuller, but Geee-zus. This is insane. I guess you
can rejoice you got $15 of my disability payment this month.

Thanks in advance for any helpful Input.

Lori

62

Hi all

but a history lesson is needed here.

There is much low quality rubbish made in China and sold to the
west. They just do not care.

Why? Because of the way the west has treated China and the Chinese.
When China asked to be paid in cash not opium European powers and
America sent gun boats up the Shanghai river and enforced martial
law.

Many hundreds of thousands addicted to opium was the result. Do you
think the Chinese forget that?

Over a hundred thousand Chinese worked for the war effort in WWI and
many died in France cleaning up the left over munitions the "brave"
French would not. They got no thanks for that either.

In Australia Chinese workers, even if they had married Australian
women were sent home after WWII. They had no choice in the matter.

Also when the Chinese wanted to reclaim German concessions in China
after WWI they were by the west given to the Japanese invaders. Yes
the Japanese who killed 13 million Chinese in WWII many women and
children.

So bad they made the Nazis look humane.

And you wonder why they sell the west crap? And drugs as well, it is
called pay back. And now they are becoming one of the most powerful
nations the world has ever seen it would be wise to think about our
past dealings with these people.

No matter how arrogant the US still is it should remember that it
has been bankrupt since 1968 (raised the debt ceiling over 20 times
since 1968) and now owes trillions of dollars to China, and they
wonder if America will ever be able to repay the debt.

Two books that should be read are “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu and
"Thick Face Black Heart" by Chin-Ning Chu.

After reading them it would be time to realise the west’s place in
the new world. The party is over western racist capitalist imperialism
is finished. Yet it will take some time to realise it for many.

And if the aggressive face of China is not to your liking then the
Daodejing by Laozi and the Zhuanzi by Zhuang Zhou would be even more
enlightening.

Business has always been the case of 'Caveat Emptor" “Let the buyer
beware!” Regardless of where a product is made.

No one has said the findings from China are poor quality that is
just an assumption.

People are worried that CAD will cost jobs. It is more likely that
high skilled Chinese jewellers will be more of a threat to the trade
than computers and oh they use CAD too.

It will not be long before high quality jewellery is exported from
China at prices that will destroy many businesses who just on sell.
It just may be that the chain store of the future is staffed by
beautiful intelligent charming Chinese ladies who skillfully sell
you a quality product made in China. And if the business does not
keystone it’s stock it will be very good value.

But if you hand make/CAD original/custom designs then you will still
have a business and may even be able to export to China.

Zaijian
He Rui-De

63

I have lived in that part of the world and worked with Chinese
people. I has been my observation that, although they care very much
for their own lives, their regard for other people’s lives is very
much less than we take for granted in western cultures.

Jerry in Kodiak

64

Chinese mountings and parts, long rant, you may want to skip!

China is a manufacturing country. It is instilled in their nature
since birth. The USA is a consumption country. It too is instilled
since birth.

Watch television commercials from both countries to understand.

Auto parts made in China can exceed USA specs. The faulty sensor as
it ‘should’ be made is $5. The stock holders want more profit and
tell the Chinese manufacturer to go back and make it for $1.
Something is traded somewhere. It is not about quality so much as
bottom line and huge profits.

Not everything made in China is made in a sweat shop. Most families
also manufacture at home. They have a room or garage set up where
they contract assemble products. Yes, they are not making $38 an hour
union wages, six weeks’ vacation, health care for the family and
children until they are 26, six month paid maternity for both
parents, holidays, weekends, sick pay and I just don’t feel like
working days. Oh, and they can’t use their cell phones while working.
You know how sales people can’t be bothered to end their call to wait
on you? No guaranteed pension with minimum 12% interest growth per
year. No automatic cost of living raise with a minimum of 3% even
when the COL recedes. They were not taught to expect that. We are
teaching them that now.

How many billions of dollars a year in sales do you think Stuller
does? Do you honestly believe they are going to sell an inferior
setting? They warrant it whether it is contract made for them or they
make it in house.

Have you ever been behind the scenes and watched their quality
control? Every order that ships is inspected by several people. Each
checking the one prior. I have had Stuller replace a setting three
years after they sold it. There was nothing wrong with it, other than
my customer. Stuller still replaced it at their cost, paid my
shipping and shipping to the customer.

A 14kt product or setting costs the weight in gold plus labor.
Period. I don’t care what country is making it. You can pay $1.80 per
gram for labor or $40 per gram. You know your customer base, you
decide. Stuller will hand-make any setting you want, from your
sketch, your CAD file or whatever.

As far as I know, they will no longer cast from your molds, but used
to private label for thousands. Their country of manufacture is fully
disclosed if you order from the website. The same as all the other
large sellers that are watched closely. The independent friendly rep
guy that comes by your store to show you new settings and assures you
they are all made in the USA, is getting them from Thailand or Viet
Nam. Their prices are much better than China. There is no warranty
other than what you, the retailer offer your customer. Do you carry
the big USA names that are household words? Ask for it in writing
that they are made in the USA, ask specifically where their
manufacturing facility is as you have to supply it to the legal
department of a college or school you are going to supply.

Then wait. Stuller also buys from one of the highest quality ring
manufacturers in Canada. They imported Schafer chain from Germany
and the USA market would not pay the price. American retailers did
not want to pay the price for Curteis from England either. There are
USA owned manufacturers set up in China. They advertise in the back
of the trade magazines.

Stuller’s diamond setting prices rival that of having them done
overseas.

Yet, there are still USA manufacturers that send their settings or
fly them over to have the diamonds set in China while they wait. When
the.350 platinum was in all the malls at low prices, the stores knew
what they were selling. When they got caught, they blamed it on
China. There are still companies in the USA casting jewelry with
Birmingham or Dublin Assay marks already in place. We get what we are
willing to pay for. The quality of Chinese made jewelry in England is
far superior to what is coming in to the USA. High end silver, high
karat gold and.950 platinum. It is hurting the jewelry economy there
and forcing them to reevaluate what they sell. I guess China is
copying Sam’s business model.

Walk into any jewelry store and you will see a Stuller catalog. They
do what they do well. The store in the mall could care less if the
setting is made in China, POW camp in Viet Nam, child labor factory
in the USA on an Indian reservation (sovereign nation, no child labor
laws) or illegal immigrant sweat shop in New York where they are
working to pay off their passage. That setting for $300 made in China
is being sold for $1,500 at the fancy store. You could have Stuller
hand make it for you for $700 and sell it for $1,000. Sort of like
the Wal-Mart mark up.

Our local grocery chain in the mid-Atlantic USA is a conglomerate
out of Europe. You want to talk about rape, pillage and plunder? We
try to buy USA to support the ‘movement’ whenever we can. There was
an ‘organic’ granola company out of Upstate New York (don’t get me
going about the organic word that means nothing but marketing), well
this granola, all natural, all locally grown, free range honey bees,
free range organic wheat, no GMO or monsanxxx seeds was $12 at the
grocery store. It was delicious.

I found it at WM for $4. My wife (who’s family refuses to go to WM)
did not believe me. I came home with ten packages and the receipt. It
was six months before the local grocery chain dropped their price to
$7. WM uses USA grown beef and poultry. Local grocery store chains
are using ‘imported’ beef, chicken, and fish. We have friends who
raise thousands of head of natural free range grass fed organic beef
each year. He does not sell local. He was supplying restaurants
locally but they continued to not pay.

You know, net 30 turns into net 180. I asked where I could buy some
as his wife had sent home some two inch think porterhouse steaks. He
just lowered his voice and said go to Wal-Mart or Sams. We just came
back from Ireland and their McDonalds and Burger Kings use free
range, no hormone beef. In fact, for more than twenty years no
hormones in their meat or fowl. We get what we are willing to pay
for.

You can have anything made you can imagine in another country. There
are jewelry manufacturers in UK, Ireland, Scotland that make Irish
jewelry.

Specifically for the USA market. They are not allowed to be sold in
Ireland or the UK. They are not up to spec with EU standards. The
same with clothing. I covet a fine leather jacket made in France,
Italy, British Hong Kong (vintage) or bespoke from London. As long as
they are made for the EU market. If made for the American market they
may (most likely) will have inferior metal with nickel in it.
Zippers, jean rivets, clasps, snaps, body jewelry, costume jewelry,
bra hooks. Yes, the bra may not be too tight, you just may have a
reaction to nickel. A Riri zipper from a jacket meant for sale in the
EU may be different than one bound for the USA market. $20 vs $50.

If you are buying a container (tractor trailer) load of say polo
shirts, you can get them for $1 apiece, or $5 apiece. No labels.
Those are then sent out by a jobber to sew in labels of country of
’manufacture’ and name brand labels. Usually ladies in the 70s-80s in
a residential house in New England working by the pieces. The $5
shirt, then has $1 in labor to affix a label.

Another $2 for labor to inventory, fold, wrap into a package and now
60% of the ‘cost’ is USA labor. It can be marked Made in USA. This
applies to anything you can imagine. The reverse also holds true.
Things manufacturer in the USA are sent to another country like
Switzerland to be ‘assembled’ and exported to the USA after they are
stamped Made in Switzerland. This is common practice in medical and
dental stainless steel tools. Jewelry just underwent different
regulation. We cannot say it is Made in the USA unless we can
actually prove the metal and stones were mined here.

One of my sales reps from Stuller contracted serious cancer a few
years ago.

She was out of work almost two years. I’m sure there were many who
did not expect her to make it. No employer is set for that kind of
sick leave.

It’s pretty cut and dry. Your health care will last about 30 days,
you’re out of work. After a certain amount of time your job is lost
and your life is upside down whether you survive or not. Fortune 500
companies have stockholders to answer to. She was told to not worry
about anything other than getting her health back. There was a job
waiting for her when she recovered. She was told not to worry about
health care or bills. It was covered. That speaks to me of quality.
Your reputation is only as good as your help or your last customer. I
am still a customer.

Charlie

65

"Stay on topic, leave off personal prejudices, store bashing, etc.

Disclosure prior to purchase would have kept this discussion from
ever occurring. This list is not what it once was, well trained
individuals sharing and helping one another. Are we able to bring it
back to that? Please."I agree with Teresa and this thread has become
a stage for airing opinions that have nothing to do with the
original posting. Stuller has its own reasons for selling products
from China, just as other supliers have their reasons for selling
from other countries.

Nobody is forced to buy anything from anybody. All these
generalizations reek of xenophobia. Let’s keep this forum apolitical
and informative.

66

Many Walmart employees earn so little they qualify for food stamps
and Medicaid. Forbes says Walmart cost US taxpayers an estimated
$6.2 billion last year in welfare subsidies to its employees.

Walter

67

I totally respect Stuller’s. The very few times I have used them,
The quality was not the issue. What this thread started as and I
guilty of taking it off track, is disclosure up front of where an
item was made. Yes some of us do not want to deal with a Chinese made
item. For us there are many reasons. I will admit there are some very
excellent handcrafted jewelry pieces coming out of China, but it is a
very small portion of what is produced.

The original problem of not disclosing up front where it was made is
something I in my old lady opinion believe companies should
consider. Yes we may not buy that item, then again there are those
who will. It is giving us an informed position on which to base our
purchase. Each of us will still with said base the
purchase on our own experiences.

If the disclosure is not made, and later a problem arises, to which
we find the item made where quality control is almost non existant,
it colors our opinion of the company who was the final link in the
buying chain.

As for my car problems, This morning I went to the Ford dealership.
I guess even informing them I was not mad at them, I was not pleased
scared them. The part that is needed is being sent overnight from
Canada. I will have my car fixed and running by tomorrow afternoon.
Add Ford to the list of companies that have decided it is better to
fix a problem than to shine me on.

Aggie on a not so cool (105F) mountain top

68

Lori- All you have to do is call Stuller and ask for some tech help
from the metals dept. When I first started using Continuum I called
them with some questions. They were more than happy to talk to me.

I’ve worked with Continuum and love it. I don’t always kiln harden
what I’ve made. I only do that when I need really strong spring to my
metal.

Even in it’s annealed state it’s much harder than sterling and thus
makes a good choice for crowns and bezels. It can be soldered to
sterling with no problem. It bead sets beautifully and solders like
gold.

I never have had to wait as long as a month with Stuller for a back
order. You may want to check on the status of your order and/or
perhaps reorder the items you need.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry.

Jo Haemer
timothywgreen.com

69

Our US government is biased toward big corporations and profits. I
can tell you, with all the Obama care health insurance, I’m all
fucked up to hell. In New Hampshire, we only have one choice -
Anthem, and I’m paying through the nose for health insurance, and I
still can’t afford my *&%^ medicine for asthma. Still can’t afford
my Advair, but mllking my acte asthm care inhaher for fhew asthmas I
get pr yeear.

As long as US government caters to big business and tax breaks, we
middle class and lower class Americans are in big trouble. My family
has suffered as a result and even throught I’ve put in 30 years in
the jewelry business, I’m still a few years shy of 50. I’m lost my
optimism for thefuture, feel like I’m gotta work like hell just to
stay alive, and how in the hell is I’m suppose to be creative?

With cheap labor coming out of Asia and a general sense of who
cares, weare heading toward a point where all it matters is the
price point.

Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I like to think my clients appreciate
I sweat a lot on their orders.

There are times (o more often than I care for) that I can shift to a
business thatw was hiring and firing so quiclkly.

Joy

70 
I am not allowed to be a Stuller customer. But noo-b/c they hide
behind their reasoning that jewelers supplies are ripe for
fraudulent use and sale, they won't sell to people likeme. No, I
am NOT going to a) spend what amounts to a full tank of gas to get
a local biz license I don't need-and then, apply for a Federal

If you do not want to apply for the licenses that make you a
legitimate business then don’t. But, don’t bitch about what you can’t
buy without them. There is a reason they will not sell to you, and if
you would think about the answer instead of thinking you are special
you might come up with it. Why don’t you call Shell oil and buy gas
directly from them.

Bill Wismar

71

Lori,

With all due respect, you are not fully educated about the materials
and process that you are trying to use. Soldering all silver leaves
it annealed, in a softened state.Components are normally either heavy
enough for the annealing to not to become a structural issue, or they
are further work hardened in one manner or other. Some silver alloys,
like Continuum or argentium silver, can be heat treated after
fabrication to harden them. I am not familiar with Continuum
specifically, but have used argentium which can be heat treated at
temperatures of 500 degrees for a longer time in your oven.
Apparently, the component you ordered is very light, so Stuller
wanted to ensure you were aware that soldering would create a
structural issue unless hardened afterward.

Stuller does have restrictions in place to protect the wholesale
relationship with it’s customers. They expect you have some skills
and knowledge when you order, and you can always get technical
questions answered by their great tech support. It is possible to
get an account as a bench jeweler, but you are restricted from
buying finished products and certain stones. You need a bricks and
mortar storefront to get a full account. This keeps just anyone from
buying product and reselling it (and undermining their main customer
base price-wise). Rio does sell to anyone, and you can make and sell
nice looking pieces when you are learning by assembling stuff. Keep
learning, take classes, practice, and you will get there.

(And ranting seems silly and unproductive…)

Melissa Veres, engraver and goldsmith

72

I have been using Stuller sense they were first in business many
years ago. my kids grew up waiting for their boxes to show up so
they could get the lollypops inside. In all my years of using them I
have never had a problem with their products or service I have great
respect for them.

No one thought that a bunch of people from the deep south could make
anything of quality except gumbo. They proved everyone wrong by
doing things no one else was willing to do. like customer service
back then and overnight shipping… Am sure they can do a great job of
changing China if they set their mind to it… Cad is changing the
jewelry industry. it is cheap to have done overseas. I am learning it
at 66 now so I can design while traveling around the world with my
wife who loves to travel. it is a trade off for me. But the quality
ofmy designs and work will be the same if I hand carve it or print it
out on a3d printer and have it cast and finished while I travel…

I think this tread has hit it end time. let’s move on to what will
help us all be better at what we love to do and share our skills
with those who need help to hopefully out do what what we have done
in our lives.

Panama Bay Jewelers

73

I think that this discussion has lost its initial focus!
The_customer_ refused the item because it was made in China! Whether
the quality was there is irrelevant, what that customer wanted is
the question that needs answered.

With out the knowledge of where something is made, he can not
provide what that customer wanted! The_customer_ has the final say
about what they purchase.

Mark Chapman

74

My goodness! There certainly is a lot of hatred for Wal-Mart and
China here! This level of vitriol is very surprising, given the
traditionally open-minded, tolerant and even-tempered nature of most
Orchid contributors. There seems to be more than a mere disapproval
of their business practices. I sense a loathing of both based on much
more.

Wal-Mart doesn’t “kill” their employees or their customers, as one
contributor stated. That would be a little counter-productive, don’t
you think? Even for Wal-Mart. Do we really have to go to the extreme
of making bizarre things up to make a point? That kind of talk really
undermines any credibility the poster may have started out with.

I wonder, do other companies like Rio Grande, Otto Frei and Stachura
to name a few, carry goods that were made in China? Do they all
disclose the origin of every single product they sell before
shipping? If not, why is the anger and malice directed specifically
at Stuller and not at the trade in general?

Nobody is forced to buy anything from anybody. All these
generalizations reek of xenophobia. Let's keep this forum
apolitical and informative.

Amen to that Barbara!

Dave Phelps

75 
but a history lesson is needed here.

Richard, no disrespect intended, but your post is not a history
lesson in any way. I would ask that you check your facts. You have a
few errors in your dissertation. Just for one, US gunboats were not
sent up the Shanghai river to force the Chinese people to accept
opium as payment for goods and services.

We can argue about the merits of Chiang Kai-shek’s New Life Movement
and the wisdom of US involvement with his opposition to the Chinese
Communist Party that ultimately resulted in civil war (which is why
the boats were really there), and further, why the west didn’t come
to China’s aid more swiftly and in more force before and during the
Japanese Rape of Nanking in 1937, but we shouldn’t be making things
up out of whole cloth.

Especially when they are portrayed as “facts” and then used to
create and back up a specious argument.

Come on, Richard. I’ve come to expect better than that from you.

Dave Phelps

76

Thanks Richard Hopkins for the story behind what is apparent, but not
understood, excuse me so I can go to Walmart to buy a gun so I can
shoot myself in the foot.

77

Lori,

I saw a sign last week, “It is hard to have a positive life with a
negative mind”. But I digress, Hard to get the point across to some
people, they get emotional about business policies, as if they are
being slighted.

It is not about wealth or income of the purchaser. That is how you
feel about yourself.

Most of Stuller’s items in Continium are made in sterling. Usually
there is a choice. Whoever ordered “might” have made a mistake.

As far as working with Stuller, meet the requirements. If you are
going to be in the business, comply with what is asked, and the door
magically opens.

I have heard victim stories on Orchid for as long as I have been on
Orchid, somewhere over 15 years.

If you think that is tough, try getting into a JCK show.

You have to have a retail business, business license, proof of a
physical location, possibly including a lease agreement.

I sympathize, I came across this when I started, and I was offended.
I did not understand business.

I used to do production casting. I had minimums. I had to account
for my time.

Make a mold, must have a minimum order so I do not waste my time with
what does not provide an income. Making the mold was a service. The
money was in repeatable business. Small amounts occasionally were not
worth doing the account.

Everybody does what works for them.

I had a “no return except for exchange” policy. On their receipt, on
the credit card receipt, on the wall in black and red. Standard for
most small businesses.

Some people could not understand a simple concept. All sales final.

Some people thought my policy was wrong. I asked them, why should I
change my business policy for you, why are you special? They always had
an answer that sounded good to them. One person who got a present
from her husband said because my prices were to high (they were not)
and she said she would never shop at my store. I asked her, if you
are not going to be my customer in the future, what is my inspiration
to give you a refund? She did not get it.

Peace be with you, Richard Hart who just closed a business after 24
years. Sales going down, rent was going to go up by 80% if I renewed
my lease.

78

You betcha I’m saying that most - if not ALL findings I bought from
China have been simply base metals with a cheep coating of silver
color applied thateasily flakes off.

A recent Chinese classmate of mine calls the made in China stuff
"crap" (hisexact word) and will not buy any place but Rio, Hoover and
IJS. Tells us not to trust anyone and test components ourselves
before selling to customers.

I am resorting to using hypoallergenic niobium and titanium for ear
wires soI can’t get accused of using “plated” materials. Plus, my
ears are very sensitive. These 2 metals are my earlobes best
friends!!! Basically, our trade is become more art - those that want
real unique and well made jewelry are going to have to pay for the
artisanship and good materials.

Those that want cheap jewelry that us made from inferior products
can head to the famous area of Made in China knock-offs on Canal St
in NYC. Just remember the procedure in how to buy or you will not be
taken into the back allies where the really good fake stuff is sold!

Things-things-things-remember that it is the THING that matters - not
the quality or what goes into making it, just the THING itself with
fancy designer name, most likely misspelled, stamped haphazardly on
it somewhere.

Lori

79

One little comment on criticizing products made in China… (not
about Stuller) Whenever possible, if I have a choice, I avoid buying
anything made in China. I have several reasons, one of which is a
lack of reliability in quality. I’m a retired ESL (English as a
Second Language) teacher, andover the decades have taught many
hundreds of people from China. When Ihappened to mention to any of
them how I felt on this subject, they completely agreed with me.
They, too, would prefer not to buy products from China. They would
strongly confirm that “you can’t trust” what you’re gettingor really
know how something was made. It doesn’t mean everything is faulty,
just that one doesn’t know. Another reason I have is a political
protest (you could say a personal boycott) because of the treatment
of Tibetan people (and other minority groups). Barbara in northern
California

80

I’m sorry to again reiterate the obvious - but – when goods I order
arrive at my door, the documentation has to state the country of
origin so that it can be taxed accordingly by excise taxes. It
matters not the country I purchase it from - it has to be the country
of origin of the goods. Now, if it possible to list in detail on the
documents every little thing that I ordered complete with its country
of origin, why is that not possible on the website so that I am
informed BEFORE I place the order and so I prepared for 110 per cent
excise taxes in certain casese Also my customer of the final product
deserves to know as much as I know about the product.

They might have objections to a country’s policies - it is not for
me to judge their experience.

Barbara, mystified as to why is withheld.