Let's start with Walmart, probably the largest importer of Chinese goods?
Richard- Walmart employs 925,000 people. They add 500,000 each year.
Most of these folks have no formal post secondary education or
manufacturing skills.
Once we all boycott Walmart for their chinese goods who’s gonna hire
them? I say we start with raising the minimum wages in the US so
folks who are now poor can afford to shop at more expensive stores
than Walmart.
-Jo Haemer
Let's start with Walmart, probably the largest importer of Chinese goods?
Why? Everything I buy at Walmart, wherever made, I could also buy at
numerous other stores. Why try to punish Walmart because it’s the
biggest, when other vendors import the exact same products and
charge more for them?
Al Balmer
Beth,
This is NOT xenophobic - it is the necessity to understand who you are doing business with, and how THEY do business, so that YOU know what you are buying!
You absolutely nailed it!
When doing business in any country, you must understand their
cultural concept of fair business practices before contracting with
them; and even then, do a quality test with a minimum order, because
they are testing your standards, as well.
I’ve also learned that in a lot of cultures, only blood family gets
the best quality product.
Michelle
It’s been fascinating watching the discussions regarding
Chinese-made products and USA’s made products. Of all of the
companies I order my silver/gold supplies, Stuller is my main
supplier. Number 1, they are fast - I get my goods next day or 2nd
day, despite the fact I specify 3rd dayUPS. Second, the quality of
their mountings and settings are some of the best, esp. when it
comes to sterling prongs. I just can’t find highquality prong
settings anywhere else that rivals Stuller’s settings. If it is tube
bezels, then I get them from Hoover and Strong, for I need the
sterling bezels and they are the only wholesale company that
carriesthem (Metalliferous is inconsistent in their supply).
Yes, I prefer American made products but it gets harder to find
them. If you use Xuron flush shears, buy them for they are made in
Maine, unless I’m wrong. Unless something goes wrong, I’ll stick to
Stuller, for their goods are well-made, their prongs are some of the
best (and I had crappy ones from other companies) and they are
consistently reliable. I understand much of the display products,
boxes, bags, so forth are from China, and that’s a given.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Joy
We have a Chinese restaurant next door to us. The owner is native
Chinese and we have become good friends. His American name is Jeff. I
asked him what his real name is, he said “You can’t say. I’m Jeff
here. We go to China, you learn. Then you can say right.”
He keeps trying to talk me into going to China with him for a
vacation. He tells me that I should pack up virtually anything
American made that I can fit in my luggage. He says the Chinese
people know about the knock-offs and the substitution of materials
that Chinese products have become internationally known for and they
will buy almost anything with a Made in America label for far more
than what we pay for it here. Especially if it’s directly from an
American.
His plan for our trip goes like this ~ “Bring Justin boots, Jack
Daniels, Marlboros, Snickers bars and nice fly rod and reel, many
flies. We go fishing, then you sell. They buy from you, American,
they know not cheap Chinese copy. Pay for trip! When you wanna go?”
He also told me that I shouldn’t buy jewelry made in China for my
store unless I see the actual pieces I’m buying before paying for
them. There is very high quality craftsmanship available in China,
but quite often what you see as a sample isn’t what you get.
Typically, when you see the prototype or first run, it’ll be perfect,
the highest standard. But you have to check each and every piece
after that just as carefully as the first or they’ll start slowly
dropping the standards until you say something. The thought process
apparently is that if you don’t say anything, it must be OK. The
"short leash" rule applies.
Jeff says when the Chinese want quality in China, they buy American
or German made. Except for food. Everybody in China knows that
American food is garbage, even (if not especially) "traditional"
Chinese restaurant food. He says “You Americans only got three or
four vegetable, Chinese got fifty. You never see fat Chinese. Here,
everybody fat. Need more vegetable, less bread. Bread very, very bad
for you. And beer (taps my glass). Make you fat.” He’s a friend. What
am I gonna say? “Couple of scotches over here, please.”
When his friends and family from China visit, he brings them by the
store where they usually buy several higher end in-house made pieces
to take back and sell in China. They always pay retail and want a
printed receipt shown in dollars to prove its origin. Then they take
pictures of the store. That makes me smile.
The Chinese people have traditionally been outstanding trade
partners as well as staunch and very courageous political and
military allies of the West, the US in particular. It wasn’t until
August of 1945 when the Soviets ran rough-shod into Manchuria and
main-land China for a week after Japan surrendered to the Allies that
China became a political and commercial opponent of the West; really
little more than a Soviet satellite state. Imagine if the Chinese
people, with their fierce loyalty, creativity and strong work ethic
are ever truly released, like the German and Japanese people were at
the very moment the iron curtain fell on China. I can, and I pray for
the day. Taiwan is a perfect microcosm of what the entire continent
might look like if it was ever set free. Or it was until recently.
Time will tell…
Just for what it’s worth, I’ve talked with people from Stuller about
the ‘Made in China’ subject and they are very well aware of the
short-leash rule and apply it stringently. I’m told that it’s not a
problem encountered exclusively with Chinese firms. It applies to
many of their suppliers from around the world, including a few in
America. They have people whose sole job is to check incoming
inventory for quality. Believe me, if it comes from Stuller, it’s
been thoroughly inspected, regardless of where in the world it was
made.
I’ve done contract work for them in the past, so I know for a fact
this is true, because they kicked a few pieces back for a re-do or a
credit. I don’t care who you are, if you bezel set 100 peridots and
100 amethysts for Stuller at anything approaching a profitable speed,
you’re gonna get a few kicked back if you don’t loupe each and every
piece before sending it. They are very picky, mainly because the bulk
of their customers are. Anybody that’s done both retail and trade
work knows that most retailers are way tougher customers than retail
customers ever are.
Another fwiw. If you want to buy jewelry boxes, unless you know
someone that will custom make them for you or you make them yourself,
you have no choice but “Made in China”. Anyone want to guess why?
Paf’s last post got it exactly right. There’s nothing to fear from
"Made in China". Except maybe the dog treats. And I think I’ll
continue to stay away from Chinese candy, no matter what Jeff says.
Dave Phelps
Clean these rings in your ultrasonic, and count how many diamonds are shaken out into the tank.
I started in the trade as a sales-personwhen I was just a hobbyist
jeweler. Many of my biggest headaches came fromcleaning cheap
jewelry for customers. My wife, who worked in the trade forjust a
few years has had the same experience. We hated all of those
nick-set stones because we would be cleaning out the ultrasonic
several times a day looking for those microscopic pebbles of dreck,
while spending an hour trying to calm an irate customer while
writing up a free repair that ruins our repair dollars average. And
during that time, everyone else in the storeis actually selling
jewelry and getting our commissions. And of course thebench Jewelers
would always call and ask why we insisted on cleaning such crap
jewelry. I was glad to get out of the mall stores.
Gerald A. Livings
I boycott Walmart because of personal experiences with the
corporation. I do not support businesses that have workers in sweat
shop facilities. Walmart kills people for its’ bottom dollar. Yes,
they are the largest employer around. They also have the largest
number of people who work and qualify for government benefits because
they use every trick in the book to pay their employees in America as
little as possible with no benefits. If you think it is the poor who
shop at Walmart you are deluded. We drive by plenty of Mercedes and
Hummers in those parking lots when we are out shopping. A corporation
with a moral compass that is broken is not something I will support.
So it isn’t because they sell Chinese goods or Japanese or German. It
is because they are the greatest evil I have seen in a family owned
business in quite awhile.
Teri
Hello Joy,
You said exactly what I feel. Stuller is and will remain my go-to
supplier, closely followed by Rio for their silver (specifically
AS). When possible, Ibuy locally and US-made. However this is a
global economy in which we ALL live and work. Change comes
world-wide. Sometimes it hurts and seems unfair.
Judy in Kansas, who watches the squash vines grow before her eyes!
Thought I will talk for India:)
I have great respect for Americans and simply love their
professionalism. I had worked there for a couple of years and have
seen their working style.
Perfection and precision in everything.
In South India, in my state TamilNadu there is a small place called
’Tiruppur’ where all major brands in textiles get manufactured and
exported. It is very close to Coimbatore which is called the
Manchester of South India.
In fact my brothers were also having their own manufacturing unit
and were exporting to the U. S. Though all were quality conscious,
consignments had been returned for different reasons. We never
understood.
When the economy hit, it hit them too, hard, to the extent that they
faced severe losses(in millions) and closed business.
My cousins’ have a manufacturing unit in Bangalore where again they
export to France, U.K, not sure about the U.S.
They have been around for almost 20 years exporting and they also do
big brands. My cousin says she maintains around 32 compliance
certificates!
We also maintain quality and manufacture good quality products. I
think the system should be set up for it.
Regarding Information Technology, I personally feel bad for taking
others’ jobs. Since I am from the IT industry, I think I can talk
about it.
But then do you know that we work both in Indian time and in U.S
time in a day?
I used to go to office at 8.30 but I never had a stipulated time to
return.
In India, when people start at 6 p. m., people look at them oddly.
We are supposed to stay till 9 p. m. that is the earliest we can
leave.
When we get back home from Indian time, its U.S. time and again we
log in from home attending early morning meetings (mornings for U.S)
May be that is the reason the IT jobs are outsourced to us. No
offence at all. Just stating the facts.
Most of the people in IT are frustrated that they have switched over
to different areas. I switched to Jewellery:)
Regards,
Kavitha Balakrishnan
Stuller is my main supplier. Number 1, they are fast - I get my goods next day or 2nd day, (...). Second, the quality of their mountings and settings are some of the best, esp. when it comes to sterling prongs.(...)and they are consistently reliable.
Well said Joy. This is the reason Stuller is my main supplier, too.
I will also add exceptional customer service.
All the Best to all Orchidians and happy Canada Day to my Canadian
counterparts.
Danuta
Danuta Cieslukowska
goldcast.ca
My goodness! What a rumble because a company delivered an item made
in China.
If you don’t like it, send it back period. You’ll get a refund, end
of story.
Next step is find another company or make it yourself. Where is YOUR
problem? If seen somany people praising Stuller. Now they are placed
in a bad spotlight because a product is made in China and not in the
USA.
What a small minded vision of running a company some people have.
Turn the table for a second and let Stuller complain on orchid
because this particular person is trying to bringing their business
down.
What whould you do? What whould you think? How whould you react
seeing your name go public… wordlwide!
Solve your issue and get on with it. Work it out, stop nagging and
complaining.
If you still like this company, fine.
If you don’t like this company fine too, find another one…
Don’t place anybody in a bad spotlight because you’re chocked with
this on of a kind event, seriously.
Stuller is trying to survive helping your country getting out of
this economic crisis BTW.
I hope you never have an unsatisfied customer, they can do the same
with you because of one of a kind event made in the USA.
That’s my opinion.
Pedro
I totally agree with this comment about Walmart being an evil
business.
They have ruined the American retail landscape by undercutting other
companies and forcing the population to spend their tight budgets
supporting Walmart’s enslaved employees.
I never shop there and bad mouth them at every turn.
Taf
Don't you think it's a little unfair to judge an entire people on the actions of a few? Next we'll read that the Chinese don't respect life as much as we do.
Actually there is a documentary that was produced about the war in
Viet Nam that has a quote by General Westmoreland when he says almost
exactly that. He is talking about the Asian people in general, and
the Viet Namese in particular. Thomas III
I totally agree with this comment about Walmart being an evil business. They have ruined the American retail landscape by undercutting other companies and forcing the population to spend their tight budgets supporting Walmart's enslaved employees. I never shop there and bad mouth them at every turn.
This is where I jump into this. First of all I do not shop at
Walmart, but they are an American success story. The employees are
not enslaved, they can leave anytime they want. They pay mostly over
the minimum wage. Why are you not complaining about Starbucks. There
have been large box stores for years before WM they too took away
from local small business, WM just did it better. What about Home
Depot, Office Depot, Lowe’s, Dillards, Macy’s etc., etc., etc. What
about internet sales, at least if you buy from WM the community is
getting sales tax.
Maybe we should look at greed as a cause for all of this. No not the
greed of the big business owner but the greed of the consumer wanting
more than they can afford and buying cheap crap. Someone wrote about
foreign cars, I remember the cars that the US was producing in the
SC’ and early 80s’, they were crap and the foreign cars were great.
Why should I buy junk just because it was made in the US.
Bottom line, if people did not buy there, they would not exists.
Bill Wismar
I am reading this thread and am amazed how far off thread it has
gone. Yes Orchid has always been International, yet many US born
express themselves ignoring the sensitivities of the international
Orchidians. Many on this list have never been out of their
neighborhoods, not exposed to other cultures and are rather narrow
of thinking.
One largely ignored reason so much in the USA is outsourced, is our
Immigration policy. We welcome students from around the world,
accept the “out of state or nation” very high tuition rates and when
they graduate with honors right through for some Ph. D degrees and
ask to remain in the USA, we refuse to extend their Student Visa,
and send them packing back to their country of origin. They in turn
begin their business overseas and understanding the needs of the
"Americans," offer the services at a good rate to corporations. The
Call Center concept began exactly that way early on in Airline
Reservations. Today Engineers answer home computer users questions
hundreds of times every hour. IT Call Centers are a thriving
business in India started by an ex US College graduate refused
residence in the USA.
All over the World you will here negatives about merchants from
another country. This is not a trait exclusive to “Buy American.” It
is misplaced nationalistic pride. Hong Kong, originally a British
Crown Colony, had many shops owned by other British Crown
countrymen. It was not uncommon to be warned to not trust shops
owned by xxxxx people.
My GM Pontiac Vibe was built in the USA by Toyota in a SouthEastern
state. It is kin to the Toyota Matrix and has a Corolla engine.
Reliable, sturdy, up to 31 MPG and "made in America.
Stay on topic, leave off personal prejudices, store bashing, etc.
Disclosure prior to purchase would have kept this discussion from
ever occurring. This list is not what it once was, well trained
individuals sharing and helping one another. Are we able to bring it
back to that? Please.
Terrie
Teresa Masters
Actually there is a documentary that was produced about the war in Viet Nam that has a quote by General Westmoreland when he says almost exactly that. He is talking about the Asian people in general, and the Viet Namese in particular.
We bombed extensively, napalmed, villages were decimated, women,
children, and old men slain, and Asians do not respect life? We are
such a righteous nation, no crimes against humanity here.
Then we did it in Iraq. But thems Muslim, they do not respect life
either.
Most powerful nation, when it comes to one big killing machine.
Certainly what God had in mind! In God We Trust, just make a lot of
bullets and bombs, and what is the point if we do not use them?
Highest rate of school shooting in the world.
forcing the population to spend their tight budgets supporting Walmart's enslaved employees.
I’ve never been “forced” by a private company to buy anything.
Paf Dvorak
Paf,
China is a big place and when one Chinese company proves to offer inferior products/service another one steps up to reap the rewards of selling a quality product. Sounds like the way successful American companies operate. Given the track record of all the recalls lately in the millions due to inferior Chinese parts, the odds are not good.
The rental car that was given to me while they have my explorer, just
last night was announced to be on a recall. This one due not to the
fuel system, but to the airbags that on their own will explode so
forcefully atany time for no reason, that it has blinded and killed
people. The manufacturer of said airbags is located in China. That
and the windshield whippers didn’t work on it. Also made in china. I
find it very un-amusing that my vehicle is recalled over a faulty
failing Chinese part but the rentalI’m given, is recalled as well for
a faulty failing Chinese part. Look up Ford Explorers and Chevy
Cruze. My husband in Florida is laughing, I’m not. So much for
quality Chinese parts. There may be some good companies in China, but
they are being over shadowed by the majority ofreally bad inferior
products. It’s almost to the point of a needle in a haystack. I
personally will avoid
the track record of products purchased and those jewelry products
brought to me for repair, I will refrain from their usage if at all
possible.
Stuller is an astoundingly well run business that I think we all
have benefited from. They are so good and so dominant that they have
forced their competitors to up their game, sell or close their
business.
That is the same thing that successful overseas competition from
China or anywhere else should do. It should cause businesses and
employees to up their game. Not cry and complain about how unfair it
is, no talk about boycotting those evil foreign products. No blaming
other people for how we lost our job. We get off our butts, use our
heads, adapt and change and then work hard every day.
Every crisis or big change creates new and often unforeseen
opportunities. Better to look forward to that and be energized by
it.
Mark
Hi Gang,
I’ve stayed out of this whole mess because I’m of several minds
about bits of it, but I do have at least this to offer:
We (Knew Concepts) are in the middle of talking with Stuller about
carrying the saws.
Of all of the various companies we’ve dealt with, US and overseas,
jewelry and woodworking, Stuller has the most serious, in depth
vendor agreement we’ve ever seen.
I’m not going to go into specifics, because I’m not sure what’s
confidential, but the vendor contract requires that we comply with
all sorts of anti-money laundering and banking provisions, as well
as including penalty clauses if shipments are refused for cause. (as
in: if we screw up, not only do they refuse the shipment, but they
then bill us extra for it.) If we were doing diamonds, we’d have to
be able to prove (in writing) that the stones were all Kimberly
Process certified, for example.
A vendor agreement this long (12+ pages) is not the sign of a
company that doesn’t care about what it’s getting. Which tells me
that if they’re shipping mountings from China, they must have passed
QC.
Knowing them, I’m betting they probably spot check every order.
Thus, in this case, I don’t think quality is a valid concern.
Economic policy and national interest, certainly, but not so much on
the automatic “Chinese must always equal crap”.
Of course, saying that, I watched Walmart tear the guts out of a
little town I was quite fond of, so I won’t shop there either. But
that’s a reaction to their business policies, not their business
partners.
Regards,
Brian